Moto crowd control has ruined the party

LungButter
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LungButter 6/21/2021 7:23pm
6/21/2021 7:23pm
Yeti831 wrote:
Because one is an insured private property hired to hold and contain an event while off-road races tend to get permits to hold a designated course...
Because one is an insured private property hired to hold and contain an event while off-road races tend to get permits to hold a designated course over open land. Generally public land at that.
Only in the West.

Most racing East of Colorado or so is on private. The entire GNCC series is on private. Look how close fans get there.
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Cancerman
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Cancerman 6/21/2021 7:23pm
6/21/2021 7:23pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Yes Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7...
Yes
Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7 miles. Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.
soggy wrote:
Those waivers don’t mean shit
Waivers are a joke. Useless, worthless. As a former experimental aircraft company owner, my attorney can attest, they are just a tiny speed bump in the litigation process. These questions about safety just about answer themselves with a little thought and intelligence. Stupid crowds ruin many events for the majority of people, and they never go back. Think supercross.
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loftyair
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loftyair 6/21/2021 7:44pm
6/21/2021 7:44pm
Would a video of a person recognizing danger of day hold up in court?
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/21/2021 8:33pm
6/21/2021 8:33pm Edited Date/Time 6/21/2021 9:32pm
LungButter wrote:
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely? If I'm...
Then why is that liability not an issue at Off Road races from coast to coast where fans are basically allowed to roam freely?

If I'm not mistaken that is the point the OP is trying to make.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Yes Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7...
Yes
Insurance policies I’ve seen do not have the same requirements of fences for off-road races, seeing how it would be nearly impossible to fence 7 miles. Truth of the matter is a lot of tracks are foregoing insurance requirements and operating on a waiver system.
bents wrote:
Go on....I'm legitimately curious.
It's pretty simple really. When series promoter's aren't willing to foot the bill, either the track pays for event insurance or no event happens, or no additional event insurance is purchased. This is likely happening at other properties in other series.
Event insurance for Motosports has become rather selective, $5k minimum to open an account. That may cover 4-5 events.
When tracks have had claims they end up mainly on their own anyways. LLC's and participant waivers have become the norm, but spectator exposure remains.

The thought comes from Off Road events and their much larger local participant and fan base with WAY LESS RULES. Run by the same companies in many cases.
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Timo
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Timo 6/21/2021 10:21pm
6/21/2021 10:21pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
I'll never forget showing up at Rio Bravo and finding chain link fences all around the track. It has been a slow disease since then. The...
I'll never forget showing up at Rio Bravo and finding chain link fences all around the track. It has been a slow disease since then. The good old days involved waving a towel on the track's edge for your favorite rider's.

I bring this up because we held 2 events over the last few weekends at Spoaks Motopark that couldn't have been more different.
Torcs race has 5 times more turnout, and the crowd had 5 times more fun. There were UTV's and pit bikes everywhere, and no fences. Dozens of fans under the trees with coolers full of beer and music blasting up close to the action. It was a party in the full sun, someplace you wanted to be.

EMX race yesterday, everyone behind the fence (except during mini bike races when parents are allowed to chase kids all over the place) and I had to help enforce keeping perfectly safe well behaved fans and UTV's out of the infield. Way way less riders. No party scene at all and way less fun being had.

Everyone will point to insurance, but that was not an issue. Something elemental is missing from MX, on practice days it's different and people seem to roam freely. Something to consider at least for local racing.
I hate it when people think it's okay to blast their music, not everyone likes your taste of music. Staging areas, boats on a lake, at a public park, turn that shit down.
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Yeti831
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Yeti831 6/21/2021 10:40pm
6/21/2021 10:40pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Majority of the time it's not the individuals suing, it is the insurance company with a subrogation claim. They're not deterred by a LLC shell game.
Ghost of Jabroni wrote:
Good point. But since when does a personal rider’s health insurance have to cover someone riding motocross? Dont most health insurance plans have contingencies against paying...
Good point. But since when does a personal rider’s health insurance have to cover someone riding motocross? Dont most health insurance plans have contingencies against paying for the medical costs of these sorts of high risk activities? Every time Ive known someone using insurance to pay for their medical bill, they lie about how they got hurt if it involves MX.

The insurance companies are not gonna chase something they’re not responsible for.
That’s why if you get hurt and show up in your gear, you didn’t get hurt riding… you slipped while getting something out of your truck and broke your arm 😎
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backinthesaddleagain 6/22/2021 1:53pm
6/22/2021 1:53pm
Yeti831 wrote:
That’s why if you get hurt and show up in your gear, you didn’t get hurt riding… you slipped while getting something out of your truck...
That’s why if you get hurt and show up in your gear, you didn’t get hurt riding… you slipped while getting something out of your truck and broke your arm 😎
Tell them you are bringing back break dancing and don't even know what MX is, you just like the threads man.
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ButteryWaffles 6/22/2021 7:28pm
6/22/2021 7:28pm
I was just looking at southwicks tickets online. $250 to see 3 turns in their VIP sections. Up until it’s last year in 2013, they had pretty decent viewing for GA. Now for $55 you get to walk around the perimeter for 30+2 to catch a glimpse of the action.
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 6/23/2021 8:12am
6/23/2021 8:12am
For closed-course racing, insurance polices specify the perimeter of the track must have a physical barrier between the racing surface and spectating areas. This ensures the policy holder isn't negligent in case of a person wandering onto the track and getting hit by a vehicle, or a rider entering/exiting the track in a dangerous place that could cause a collision, or an out of control vehicle from launching into the crowd, etc.

If spectating is permitted on the infield, the same rule applies, so additional fencing is required on the inside facing edge of the track.

This can be quite costly to the track owners, but it's one of those deals where you pretty much have to do it or else it will be hard to find insurance coverage (w/o outrageous premiums). But in reality, it's just a smart thing to do. We do not need idiots hanging off the side of the track getting hit by bikes or causing riders to wrecks. Insurance requirement or not, its the smart and professional move to contain the crowd and make the viewing experience safe for all fans.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/23/2021 8:21am
6/23/2021 8:21am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 8:23am
mxtech1 wrote:
For closed-course racing, insurance polices specify the perimeter of the track must have a physical barrier between the racing surface and spectating areas. This ensures the...
For closed-course racing, insurance polices specify the perimeter of the track must have a physical barrier between the racing surface and spectating areas. This ensures the policy holder isn't negligent in case of a person wandering onto the track and getting hit by a vehicle, or a rider entering/exiting the track in a dangerous place that could cause a collision, or an out of control vehicle from launching into the crowd, etc.

If spectating is permitted on the infield, the same rule applies, so additional fencing is required on the inside facing edge of the track.

This can be quite costly to the track owners, but it's one of those deals where you pretty much have to do it or else it will be hard to find insurance coverage (w/o outrageous premiums). But in reality, it's just a smart thing to do. We do not need idiots hanging off the side of the track getting hit by bikes or causing riders to wrecks. Insurance requirement or not, its the smart and professional move to contain the crowd and make the viewing experience safe for all fans.
Problem is, there is no worthwhile viewing experience after that, a catch 22. By so rigidly enforcing safety measures, you have also chased away your crowd. That is my concern. Go to any off-road race and it is totally different, although the bikes are going just as fast and just as near. What makes off-road racing special other than the impossibility of fencing it all? With so many pirate promoters and tracks not choosing to buy insurance, is it worth it to follow their draconian restrictions? As far as I can tell, there is no big change in safety due to all of the fencing compared to Motocross before it was required and off-road racing. Motocross during the golden years had nearly 20 years with spectators right next to the track. And we used to ride bicycles without helmets.
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early
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early 6/23/2021 9:05am
6/23/2021 9:05am
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a personal responsibility choice on their part, which is preferable to someone telling them what to do, right?
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 6/23/2021 9:16am
6/23/2021 9:16am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Problem is, there is no worthwhile viewing experience after that, a catch 22. By so rigidly enforcing safety measures, you have also chased away your crowd...
Problem is, there is no worthwhile viewing experience after that, a catch 22. By so rigidly enforcing safety measures, you have also chased away your crowd. That is my concern. Go to any off-road race and it is totally different, although the bikes are going just as fast and just as near. What makes off-road racing special other than the impossibility of fencing it all? With so many pirate promoters and tracks not choosing to buy insurance, is it worth it to follow their draconian restrictions? As far as I can tell, there is no big change in safety due to all of the fencing compared to Motocross before it was required and off-road racing. Motocross during the golden years had nearly 20 years with spectators right next to the track. And we used to ride bicycles without helmets.
I can't believe you are taking the stance that we don't need fences and safety barriers to keep fans a safe distance away from the track and rogue bikes contained from hitting people. It increases spectator safety AND rider safety.

....lots of carrots out there...

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/23/2021 9:43am
6/23/2021 9:43am
Johnny Depp wrote:
Problem is, there is no worthwhile viewing experience after that, a catch 22. By so rigidly enforcing safety measures, you have also chased away your crowd...
Problem is, there is no worthwhile viewing experience after that, a catch 22. By so rigidly enforcing safety measures, you have also chased away your crowd. That is my concern. Go to any off-road race and it is totally different, although the bikes are going just as fast and just as near. What makes off-road racing special other than the impossibility of fencing it all? With so many pirate promoters and tracks not choosing to buy insurance, is it worth it to follow their draconian restrictions? As far as I can tell, there is no big change in safety due to all of the fencing compared to Motocross before it was required and off-road racing. Motocross during the golden years had nearly 20 years with spectators right next to the track. And we used to ride bicycles without helmets.
mxtech1 wrote:
I can't believe you are taking the stance that we don't need fences and safety barriers to keep fans a safe distance away from the track...
I can't believe you are taking the stance that we don't need fences and safety barriers to keep fans a safe distance away from the track and rogue bikes contained from hitting people. It increases spectator safety AND rider safety.

....lots of carrots out there...

It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of the stadium, you might as well stay home.
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 6/23/2021 9:46am
6/23/2021 9:46am
Johnny Depp wrote:
It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of...
It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of the stadium, you might as well stay home.
That's ridiculous. I have only been to Glen Helen, but the fences are within 5 feet of the riders as they go by. I don't see how you could get any better of a view than if you are standing at the fence.
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 6/23/2021 9:47am
6/23/2021 9:47am
IMO, it's in how the insurers categorize it.

MX is the crazy stunt bikers

Cross country type of racing is more sporting and less of the "crazy kids and their jumping"


It's like the difference between insuring a CBR600R vs a 600 Shadow

Same size engine and number of wheels, wildly different polices and costs
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JOE_SPROCKETS#1 6/23/2021 9:49am
6/23/2021 9:49am
early wrote:
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a...
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a personal responsibility choice on their part, which is preferable to someone telling them what to do, right?
Maybe track spectators should say to themselves "if I'm at a race I should pay attention and hold myself responsible"
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/23/2021 10:00am
6/23/2021 10:00am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 10:02am
Johnny Depp wrote:
It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of...
It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of the stadium, you might as well stay home.
RichieW13 wrote:
That's ridiculous. I have only been to Glen Helen, but the fences are within 5 feet of the riders as they go by. I don't see...
That's ridiculous. I have only been to Glen Helen, but the fences are within 5 feet of the riders as they go by. I don't see how you could get any better of a view than if you are standing at the fence.
I'm not talking about Pro racing, although big events are the only ones with enough money to line the whole track with fencing. Almost everyone else just has a pit/spectator section and the track is "out there".
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early
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early 6/23/2021 10:04am
6/23/2021 10:04am
JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:
Maybe track spectators should say to themselves "if I'm at a race I should pay attention and hold myself responsible"
If a track owner thinks that having a fence to keep people out of certain areas or a distance from the track is the thing to do I'm not gonna argue with them, I'm gonna let them run their business however they want and either pay to go there or not. I really don't see what the big deal is here.
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 6/23/2021 10:05am
6/23/2021 10:05am
Johnny Depp wrote:
It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of...
It has gotten so sanitary that the fun is gone. Everyone behind a fence so far away it's like watching sports from the top row of the stadium, you might as well stay home.
RichieW13 wrote:
That's ridiculous. I have only been to Glen Helen, but the fences are within 5 feet of the riders as they go by. I don't see...
That's ridiculous. I have only been to Glen Helen, but the fences are within 5 feet of the riders as they go by. I don't see how you could get any better of a view than if you are standing at the fence.
Johnny Depp wrote:
I'm not talking about Pro racing, although big events are the only ones with enough money to line the whole track with fencing. Almost everyone else...
I'm not talking about Pro racing, although big events are the only ones with enough money to line the whole track with fencing. Almost everyone else just has a pit/spectator section and the track is "out there".
OK. I can buy into the idea of more spectator access at local races where sometimes the number of racers may outnumber the amount of fans.
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RMT
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RMT 6/23/2021 10:20am
6/23/2021 10:20am
early wrote:
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a...
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a personal responsibility choice on their part, which is preferable to someone telling them what to do, right?
JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:
Maybe track spectators should say to themselves "if I'm at a race I should pay attention and hold myself responsible"
That's a great idea until you factor in humans.


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DC
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DC 6/23/2021 10:24am
6/23/2021 10:24am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 10:25am
SCC wrote:
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do...
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do I bring a family of 5 and stand in the sun for 9hrs? Hope DC jumps in with an answer.
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles.

DC
Racer X
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Timo
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Timo 6/23/2021 10:26am
6/23/2021 10:26am Edited Date/Time 6/23/2021 10:34am
early wrote:
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a...
Maybe track owners say to themselves, "if I'm not gonna have insurance, maybe I should at least keep people away from the track." Maybe its a personal responsibility choice on their part, which is preferable to someone telling them what to do, right?
JOE_SPROCKETS#1 wrote:
Maybe track spectators should say to themselves "if I'm at a race I should pay attention and hold myself responsible"
RMT wrote:
That's a great idea until you factor in humans.


Humans, smart enough to know better, but too dumb to care...
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lostboy819 6/23/2021 10:41am
6/23/2021 10:41am
ButteryWaffles wrote:
I was just looking at southwicks tickets online. $250 to see 3 turns in their VIP sections. Up until it’s last year in 2013, they had...
I was just looking at southwicks tickets online. $250 to see 3 turns in their VIP sections. Up until it’s last year in 2013, they had pretty decent viewing for GA. Now for $55 you get to walk around the perimeter for 30+2 to catch a glimpse of the action.
Some tracks the VIP tickets are better value that's for sure but you can still buy the VIP and walk around all you want and then chill back in the shade of the VIP tents. Thunder Valley the VIP tickets are a great deal because there is no shade unless under the tent or carry a umbrella and you can see 99% of the track and relax and eat while enjoying the race. Smile
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orange_44
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orange_44 6/23/2021 5:56pm
6/23/2021 5:56pm
ButteryWaffles wrote:
I was just looking at southwicks tickets online. $250 to see 3 turns in their VIP sections. Up until it’s last year in 2013, they had...
I was just looking at southwicks tickets online. $250 to see 3 turns in their VIP sections. Up until it’s last year in 2013, they had pretty decent viewing for GA. Now for $55 you get to walk around the perimeter for 30+2 to catch a glimpse of the action.
I went to Southwick 2 years ago and got there early and grabbed a spot on the top row of the bleachers near where they sell the food. Was able to see 80% of the track including the start and finish line. Was pleasantly surprised
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stremme12
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stremme12 6/24/2021 6:39am
6/24/2021 6:39am Edited Date/Time 6/24/2021 7:01am
SCC wrote:
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do...
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do I bring a family of 5 and stand in the sun for 9hrs? Hope DC jumps in with an answer.
DC wrote:
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles. DC Racer...
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles.

DC
Racer X
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line for 45 minutes for a bottle of water. They even ran out of water at times at a couple of their stations. If the track isn't going to allow coolers they should at least have enough drink stations to handle the crowd.

A guy came up to me and offered me $40 for my umbrella. His pregnant wife was PISSED about the lines lol. I felt for him and gave him my umbrella for free.
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DC
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DC 6/24/2021 7:09am
6/24/2021 7:09am
SCC wrote:
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do...
The new rule of no coolers with ice & bottled water is bullshit, Been to 75+ Pro Nats. Won’t be going to another, Seriously how do I bring a family of 5 and stand in the sun for 9hrs? Hope DC jumps in with an answer.
DC wrote:
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles. DC Racer...
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles.

DC
Racer X
stremme12 wrote:
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line...
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line for 45 minutes for a bottle of water. They even ran out of water at times at a couple of their stations. If the track isn't going to allow coolers they should at least have enough drink stations to handle the crowd.

A guy came up to me and offered me $40 for my umbrella. His pregnant wife was PISSED about the lines lol. I felt for him and gave him my umbrella for free.
Yes, I saw that on the infield by the first time, very long lines in all directions at the beer stand. I think they were a little overwhelmed at the crowd that showed up, just as we were at High Point (at least in regards to having enough folks to sell and scan tickets, as well as parking). You hate that any of this happens, but it's honestly hard to find people to work right now...

DC
Racer X
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TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 6/24/2021 7:17am
6/24/2021 7:17am
DC wrote:
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles. DC Racer...
Rules on coolers are up to each individual promoter. We allow them at our races, just ask that folks don't bring in glass bottles.

DC
Racer X
stremme12 wrote:
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line...
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line for 45 minutes for a bottle of water. They even ran out of water at times at a couple of their stations. If the track isn't going to allow coolers they should at least have enough drink stations to handle the crowd.

A guy came up to me and offered me $40 for my umbrella. His pregnant wife was PISSED about the lines lol. I felt for him and gave him my umbrella for free.
DC wrote:
Yes, I saw that on the infield by the first time, very long lines in all directions at the beer stand. I think they were a...
Yes, I saw that on the infield by the first time, very long lines in all directions at the beer stand. I think they were a little overwhelmed at the crowd that showed up, just as we were at High Point (at least in regards to having enough folks to sell and scan tickets, as well as parking). You hate that any of this happens, but it's honestly hard to find people to work right now...

DC
Racer X
…but it's honestly hard to find people to work right now...

Uh, Davey, that’s a sore subject around here that’s either…
1. Not True
Or…
2. It’s our own fault

As told by The Vital Peanut Gallery

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DC
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DC 6/24/2021 7:31am
6/24/2021 7:31am Edited Date/Time 6/24/2021 7:32am
stremme12 wrote:
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line...
Thunder Valley was pretty brutal. They listed no coolers but still many people had them. If you didn't bring one you had to wait in line for 45 minutes for a bottle of water. They even ran out of water at times at a couple of their stations. If the track isn't going to allow coolers they should at least have enough drink stations to handle the crowd.

A guy came up to me and offered me $40 for my umbrella. His pregnant wife was PISSED about the lines lol. I felt for him and gave him my umbrella for free.
DC wrote:
Yes, I saw that on the infield by the first time, very long lines in all directions at the beer stand. I think they were a...
Yes, I saw that on the infield by the first time, very long lines in all directions at the beer stand. I think they were a little overwhelmed at the crowd that showed up, just as we were at High Point (at least in regards to having enough folks to sell and scan tickets, as well as parking). You hate that any of this happens, but it's honestly hard to find people to work right now...

DC
Racer X
TeamGreen wrote:
[b]…but it's honestly hard to find people to work right now...[/b] Uh, Davey, that’s a sore subject around here that’s either… 1. Not True Or… 2...
…but it's honestly hard to find people to work right now...

Uh, Davey, that’s a sore subject around here that’s either…
1. Not True
Or…
2. It’s our own fault

As told by The Vital Peanut Gallery

Grinning
I hear you, Manny, but I had to ask my kids to get their friends together to come out and cut grass, weed-eat, park cars and sell tickets and programs all weekend. I loved having them out there with the rest of the crew, but it was hard to find many other gig workers to help out--but a whole bunch of them sure came out to the races to watch!

DC
Racer X
2
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Moto520
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Moto520 6/24/2021 8:10am
6/24/2021 8:10am
Yeti831 wrote:
That’s why if you get hurt and show up in your gear, you didn’t get hurt riding… you slipped while getting something out of your truck...
That’s why if you get hurt and show up in your gear, you didn’t get hurt riding… you slipped while getting something out of your truck and broke your arm 😎
I am the world's worst ladder climber in the history of the world. I should stay away from those things because i keep falling off.
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doofus
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doofus 6/24/2021 9:08am
6/24/2021 9:08am
If anyone went to the Ironman Gncc 09 or prior it used to be one of the wildest most chaotic things I’ve ever been to, and it was a blast. Ironman has some massive steep hills coming out of a creek and there would literally be thousands of spectators all over em.

Unfortunately quads and bikes not make it and flipping into the crowd killed that. They now usually only let the faster afternoon guys go up it and have a very small area at the bottom of the hills fenced off where you can watch.

I get it, but damn I miss the old days
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