Tomac Speaks Track Reform

AH387
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3/25/2021 1:20pm
mxridr wrote:
Supercross began as Motocross inside of a stadium. It has turned into a circus clown show now. The perfectionism of the tracks with the power of...
Supercross began as Motocross inside of a stadium. It has turned into a circus clown show now. The perfectionism of the tracks with the power of the 450s to clear any obstacle with the blip of the throttle is boring. The talent of the riders and performance of the machinery has far outgrown the confines of a stadium. Motocross > Circuscross
Yes. This is a condensed and more clearly worded version of what I was trying to say in my post lol.
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SoCalMX70
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3/25/2021 1:29pm
The track change stuff has been discussed over and over and we aren't seeing any changes... And seemingly less dirt every year.

I like the 250 stock vs mod idea. Either that or 150cc and 250cc. Whatever it is, max 250cc indoors, period!

Outdoors, 250cc and OPEN.
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Zycki11
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3/25/2021 1:43pm
It would be nice if people like Matthes, Keefer, Swap, and DC all continuously made the point with the riders that a change is needed.
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KurtJ99
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3/25/2021 1:57pm
I'm surprised he didn't say "a real whoop section" instead of the jumpy crap we have now made for short guys. I remember when (oh no!) JS7 and Chad had another level speed because .... gnarly whoops! And longer, so there is enough time to pass.
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The Shop

skeef
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Fantasy
3/25/2021 2:01pm
Bring multiple whoop sections back!
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toroP
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3/25/2021 2:32pm
Haul in the dirt, make a bunch of mounds of various sizes and shapes, then make a path through the chaos, building corners, whoops as you need/want them. There might even be a hill that’s not really a jump.
Chaos vs formula
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peltier626
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3/25/2021 2:53pm
F____ the 450 is a good start. 250 open cc for the Premier class and more dirt. Stop worrying about track flow, disrupt the flow.
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WFO
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3/25/2021 3:08pm
Gnarly WHOOPS used to be what riders and spectator raved about. Now you dont hear about them at all.
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bbhMoto
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3/25/2021 3:14pm
From the entertainment perspective, the show must go on. Which means that the promoters need to keep the riders as healthy as possible. Having 3 or 4 of the top riders get injured makes things boring pretty quickly.

I imagine it's a balancing act. The riders need each other to race, the promoter needs riders, the stadiums need seats filled.

Having said that I think they should throw obstacles in that slow riders down, disrupt the flow, and quit making the timing on everything so predictable and even paced.
Forty
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3/25/2021 3:18pm
Tomac has been watching film and Thinks there should be more whoops and Dragon Back style jumps.

#2 has some trouble with whoops and Dragon Back style jumps.

Coincidence?



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SoCalMX70
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3/25/2021 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 3/25/2021 3:38pm
Forty wrote:
Tomac has been watching film and Thinks there should be more whoops and Dragon Back style jumps. #2 has some trouble with whoops and Dragon Back...
Tomac has been watching film and Thinks there should be more whoops and Dragon Back style jumps.

#2 has some trouble with whoops and Dragon Back style jumps.

Coincidence?



No. Tracks have been on a steady decline for years. They clearly don't give a shit and aren't getting funded enough to bring in a good amount of dirt. They also seem to be working within a preset list of obstacles and cannot (or refuse to) go outside specific measurements. Hell even triples used to be 70-75 feet. Been standard 65' for years now minus the random Anaheim throwback design that happened like 10 years ago.

This year has easily been the worst for the cookie cutter designs. The last Arlington race was as close as we have gotten to an acceptable stadium track and really it was mediocre at best. Thankfully we have 3 speedway events lined up next.

Whoops should not be jumpable in the sense of being comparable or better speed than blitzing, period. Remember the story about Alessi (famously bad at whoops) trying to tell Windham to jump through whoops? I remember. Everyone had a laugh about it... Because it was an absolute joke to suggest that jumping would be faster.

Real whoops. Peaky jumps (more dirt). More unique obstacles, including bringing back the dragons back.

Edit: That throwback Anaheim happened at Anaheim 2 in 2008... Even further back than I thought. I'm old.
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deanwhite51
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3/25/2021 3:41pm
El Hombre didnt have an issue..?
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shuggs
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3/25/2021 3:54pm
Build the whoops BIG and a nice long section, to me that is SX!! Nothing like the sound of a bike (preferably 2t😜) hammering through them.

Like the idea of a real dragons back, something that will separate skill levels 🙏
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3/25/2021 5:28pm
Zycki11 wrote:
Wonder if this will lead to any changes [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/03/25/484918/s1200_250B2FBF_ACB1_400B_9984_4E072AB1AD9C.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/03/25/484917/s1200_1697F968_955F_407C_8086_185BB8261A5D.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2021/03/25/484916/s1200_630C4CB6_3093_42BE_B7E8_2713D290BF9A.jpg[/img] ,
Wonder if this will lead to any changes


,
Just who was he planning on passing?
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Spudnut
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3/25/2021 5:46pm
Dart fish is ruining racing

Change my mind
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Fourth_Floor
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3/25/2021 5:49pm
You gotta start movin' guys Eli!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jordan421
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3/25/2021 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 3/25/2021 5:55pm
GangGreen wrote:
[b]Surprised Tomac didn't say anything about the constant track grooming? [/b] Supercross tracks used to break-down so much that doing the triple every lap was almost...
Surprised Tomac didn't say anything about the constant track grooming? Supercross tracks used to break-down so much that doing the triple every lap was almost impossible. When you "dumb it down", everyone goes the same speed, and timed practice creates one-lined tracks.


Jordan421 wrote:
Making something safer is dumbing it down?
what exactly about a perfectly groomed track makes it safer? Sketchy conditions calls for slower speeds.
Never said they should have a perfectly groomed track, they do groom it too much. It should only be touched once in my eyes during the night show, before the lcq’s. People pay to come see supercross and enjoy a show/event. Who wants to go to a race and have the track so beat up by the time the mains start, most jumps aren’t possible.
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ShawdowGlen
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3/25/2021 6:00pm
Spudnut wrote:
Dart fish is ruining racing

Change my mind
Technology has ruined racing....

Flame suit on.
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Zycki11
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3/25/2021 6:06pm
Spudnut wrote:
Dart fish is ruining racing

Change my mind
Technology has ruined racing....

Flame suit on.
It really has. I like efi, ecu, mapping, etc. But anything launch control I don’t like. Same with the grates. All of the skill for starts has disappeared.
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Spudnut
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3/25/2021 6:17pm
Launch control
Start device
Shift light

Starts are basically all down to reaction time, engine and commitment now
kpiper
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3/25/2021 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 3/25/2021 6:23pm
You gotta start movin' guys Eli!!!!!!!!!!!
He did in 2020. Does not want to be that aggressive in 2021.
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IanMac138
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3/25/2021 8:38pm
The recent technology leap of 4 strokes in the past 10 years broke SX. Tracks completely changed because of it. Too templated.
wreckitrandy
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3/25/2021 9:47pm
kage173 wrote:
The 2 passed 94 on the outside of a flat 90 degree turn after the whoops....just saying.
soggy wrote:
No he passed him in the whoops and was already ahead going into that corner
But Webb sucks in the hoops and doesn't have the raw speed of Kenny or Tomac. So saith the sages of the guy that's won half the races....
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PigLover
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3/25/2021 10:26pm
In the last couple years we’ve had multiple cases of 250s setting the fastest lap times in qualifying and in the races. Axing the 450 class doesn’t seem like much of a solution.
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BS12
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3/25/2021 10:37pm
Put a steep, tall, burly double right out of a tight 180. Maybe make the lip on the inside line more of a roller, but the landing mound of the double steep on the face, so the outside line runs a booter style double, while the inside line is more like a roller to wall jump.

Single to table (on-off style without the "off") Inside line jumps on, then off but with no backside to land on, so just send it to flat, outside jumps the whole thing and catches a clean backside to be able to get on the throttle earlier.

Triples that a 450 barely makes from the inside after a 90 sweeper, or a roller on the inside of that 90.

Drop the gate into a 6 ft long sand section (while speeds are still very slow).
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CPR
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3/26/2021 12:24am
Include all the options Tomac mentioned, plus whoops should always have a 180 at the end, and bring back the’un-rhythm’ sections of years ago, that there was no simple rhythm through.
And while we’re at it, ban lit pros, get rid of start devices and the metal grate, as well as ignition start maps and traction control technology.
Then we’ll see who actually is the most skilled.
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WCRider
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3/26/2021 1:03am

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151
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3/26/2021 3:54am
All "championship" contender types feel this way. They want to win and in their heads it is right that everything be designed in a manner that leads to them winning. Anything that gets in the way of them winning must be wrong.

The same track that Tomac says offers no passing, Barcia passed half the class or more. Proof that passing isn't the problem, the problem is that the best riders are that close to each other in speed and talent and fitness. That is not a problem for anyone other than the guys who are not in 1st place.

Also, please stop saying "separate the riders" why would anyone want to ride or watch a race with riders who are separated? Whatever happened to banging bars?

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3/26/2021 4:24am
I agree Eli, the tracks are junk and racing is getting boring
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peltier626
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3/26/2021 4:42am
PigLover wrote:
In the last couple years we’ve had multiple cases of 250s setting the fastest lap times in qualifying and in the races. Axing the 450 class...
In the last couple years we’ve had multiple cases of 250s setting the fastest lap times in qualifying and in the races. Axing the 450 class doesn’t seem like much of a solution.
Exactly, it's like a jet ski in a pool. Imagine if the top riders could ride the bike to it's maximum potential, how exciting the racing would be? I agree with everyone about tracks having too many similarities and flow. The speeds need to be reduced and have slower more technical obstacles. Not only would it produce better racing and passing opportunities but also reduce the severity of injuries.

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