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https://gnccracing.com/2009/06/29/david-knight-snowshoe-race-report
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OK, OK. nobody let me hijack this fine thread... please move along....
We had the stock 511 for a year , and then got hold of an Ex Mauno Hermunen 449 factory bike. It was fast and handled really well, it was one of 5 built, and nothing like the stock bike, chassis was different, linkage, and swingarm too, and the motor had all sorts done to it, and a very special ECU, It was a good bike, but the MX/Enduro ones were awful, too heavy , and the rear suspension didnt allow you to do stuff that you needed to be able to do ...
Like has been said, a lot of people think making a dirt bike that works is easy, and yet they manage to screw them up to a point where nothing will save them
Any idea how long those two companies made bikes? Did anyone ever raced them in the GP's? Rare bikes? Were they any good or total POS?
The Müller bikes look like they had potential.
They were specialized in mopeds and won tons of 50cc motoGPs.
With two discs, a lowboy pipe and an aluminium frame, i'd be very surprised this KRC is an '85 model.
Paw Paw
https://ibb.co/kyQrq31
"The 2011 Husqvarna TC449 was a bike that looked like it was designed by a committee that never met. The gas cap was in the back of the seat. The clutch was mounted on the crankshaft. There were two gas tanks, and it still didn’t hold 2 gallons of gas. The front fender had 11 different parts. The air filter was where the gas tank used to be, but still required two different-size wrenches to get to. There were two ignition maps—we labeled them “bad” and “really bad.” The shock linkage was mounted on top of the swingarm, which limited the stroke of the shock shaft. The side panels looked like pontoons. The clutch cover stuck out so far that your boot hit it while braking. The TC449 was slow, revved even slower and handled like a wet sponge. I talked to the Husky guys almost every day during the test period, and I don’t think that I ever let my tone give them a clue about how wrong the testing was going. But, I must have tipped my hand, because just as we finished the test period, Husky called and said that they had decided not to import any of the motocross versions of the TC449 to the United States. When I returned the 2011 TC449, I suggested that they never import this particular bike—ever."
Paw Paw
But, that Yamaha was an incredible thing, with so much 'innovation' to it. A little known, incredibly 'factory', factory bike.
Thank you Rob, for putting those pictures up!
As to Concentric (to the CS) Swingarm pivots : yes, they make things very, Very different to a Non Concentric Pivot, conventional bike. And, they do take a bit, well, a Lot, of adaptation. Some riders, can't, or won't adapt to it. Knighter being a classic example of such a rider, and he sure as heck was no sort of development rider from all reports. His last couple of years on KTMs, had him chasing his tail, not being able to sort his bikes out to his satisfaction. Then, he got an opportunity for a Big Payday with the BMW deal - but, he didn't seem to be able to, or want to do, what his contract asked of him. Fair enough.
Juha Salminen - well, he did his job. In his first year, 2009, with the BMW G450X, he ended up 2nd in E2 for the year, with 2 class wins. He used the Stainless Steel frame with concentric SA pivot :
He / BMW tried (at the Six Days that year, from where this picture came), the Stainless Steel frame with a Non Concentric SA pivot - but with only a very tiny amount of Non Concentricity. It used little 'stub axle' type pivot points :
The next year, 2010 - they had a bigger diameter, a '4130 type' ( though, I read that it was along the lines of '853' Reynolds) steel frame, and had stuck with the Concentric SA pivot. He had a bad year, due to injuries, missing 6 events and ended up 8th. ......
In 2011, his last full year of EWC / WEC, he rode the Husky Concentric SA Pivot bike - like Paw Paws - and Won the now E1 class, with 10 wins from 16 events.
But yeah, I guess he hated the things ......... He instead, adapted to the design, sorted the suspension set up, and did well in the twilight of his career, and pocketed a very good retirement through his BMW salary - which was a shedload more than even Knighters deal.
As a side note, Australian / Kiwi, Stefan Merriman, had quite the contract, with Aprilia to race the RV450 in EWC/WEC, his last few years OS. Megabuck deals, on 'unusual' bikes, can be lucrative!
Joel Smets seemed to go bloody fast, and have a lot of fun, on his BMW G450X at an OZ 4DE here, well, apart from an embarrassing flip while doing one of his 'standing on the seat' wheelies after a special test - you can find video of that on YouTube....
Also, in 2009, Andreas Lettenbichler (Manuels Dad ), got 2nd at Erzberg on the BMW G450X - I think that's the highest a 4T has ever got there. I also think for a large part of the event, he was stuck in one gear, having damaged some part of the gearbox / shifting mechanism :
They most certainly Do feel Different. And, for the Vast majority of riders who have spent all their riding lives dealing with 'normal', non concentric SA pivots, well, many can't or won't adapt to it. Chain Torque can be a disadvantage, and/ or, an advantage.
I had a few rides on the G450X, and the Husky, and quite liked them - but, I was used to Chain Torque Elimination / Minimization set ups.
I myself used ATK Torque Eliminator set ups on a succession of bikes, from 1989 to only a few years ago. On my small capacity 4t hybrids, where you'd ride pretty much with the throttle locked wide open, it really made it great in chop, rocks and tree roots. On my CRE500, it was, again, great for something with so much torque, that wants to damned near lock the rear end out. BUT, you do lose the ability to use chain torque for pre-loading the suspension for jumps / 'popping' over things. You're left to plow through stuff, but, you can , because the suspension remains 'free'.
But, I stopped using the AMP unit a few years ago - it was getting old, and I could not find replacement rollers ( fearful that with such age, they may well shatter one day) , it was incredibly noisy ( the o'rings to quieten it, never lasted long) and it was extra weight, and complication - and with my dislike of complication, I had gone as far as to convert my CRE's rear suspension to an Ohlins TTX equipped PDS non linked set up, but, I did make it and the airbox, be able to accommodate the AMP unit :
So, now without the AMP Torque Eliminator, I get pounded in the nasty stuff, but can now 'pop' over things, rather than go through them. It's give and take.
Bimota made several types of Concentric SA frames, and, Jon Ekerold won his 1980 350CC World Road Racing Championship on a privateer Bimota CSA TZ Yamaha engined bike, and, got 2nd the next year on one.
In some ways, just like a few engineers would say about Hub Center Steering / Funny Front end bikes, with Concentric Swingarm rear ends, "you need the riders used to 'old' engineering, to die out...."
The TM 125 Motor with a Messico Pipe was killer had one within my GAGAS EC 125 in 95.
Could easily keep up with the Japanese Bikes.
With some minor Port modification, it turned in a crazy screamer., won every start with 1-2 bike length.
Still regret that i sold it.
Pit Row
Paw Paw
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https://youtu.be/7bdrs10LPqk
Nevertheless, thanks for putting it up - I'd seen many pictures of the bike in the video, but no video of it.
Post a reply to: The weirdest factory bike I’ve ever seen!