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Edited Date/Time
12/24/2020 7:45am
But still kinda, sorry, I searched for days and read a load, but more want to hear the 450 argument.
I was almost sold on a '19 on KTM 350.
Grew up riding 65 to 125, now a standard cliche out of shape returning to riding guy, 36, 6'1, 240lbs, not ridden for a decade and was never that fast or aggressive anyway, comfortable backing off or grabbing some clutch if shit gets real.
I can't help thinking I'd prefer a Kawi with the spring fork but that'd leave me with the 450 option (not prepared to pay maintenance on a Used 250f that would have to carry my weight). Can't quite stretch to a freshy.
I have no ride days local or friends with four strokes.
Is a modern 450 like a KX really that much harder to work with than a euro 350?
Any help will be appreciated, thanks for your time.
MX only, and not in Cali unfortunately.
I was almost sold on a '19 on KTM 350.
Grew up riding 65 to 125, now a standard cliche out of shape returning to riding guy, 36, 6'1, 240lbs, not ridden for a decade and was never that fast or aggressive anyway, comfortable backing off or grabbing some clutch if shit gets real.
I can't help thinking I'd prefer a Kawi with the spring fork but that'd leave me with the 450 option (not prepared to pay maintenance on a Used 250f that would have to carry my weight). Can't quite stretch to a freshy.
I have no ride days local or friends with four strokes.
Is a modern 450 like a KX really that much harder to work with than a euro 350?
Any help will be appreciated, thanks for your time.
MX only, and not in Cali unfortunately.
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I ride well within my means at all times. Are you that kind of guy? If yes - then 450.
I assume 250s are still more fun to ride if you are under 160 pounds or lighter, like the rev the bike and be aggressive, and don't want to feel like you are driving a boat around the track. But maybe the gap has closed in the last 15 years? I guess I need to find one to ride to find out.
Almost exactly like bierbower said, I'm a pretty relaxed dude and build up to things rather than go full bore off the bat, and likewise I think nowadays I'd struggle to work a 350 as hard as it would like (otherwise I'd probably have bought a mid 2000's 250 two stroke to fix up already), so a torquey 450 may be a good fit to get back into the swing of it.
Can maybe downsize to something I can push harder like resetjet said, like 350 or 250 2t, when my bike legs come back or can get busy using a little more of what the 450 already offers.
For now, lugging around and getting back into the swing of it with just some big-guy springs and some maintenance sounds sweet.
On what are you basing your aversion to air forks? I think they work very well, and you'll have one less set of springs to buy (I always have to respring a bike for my weight, and it's nice to only have to buy one spring). My 350 is set up nicely and anyone who's ridden it comments on how nicely the suspension works. But obviously I can't speak to whether or not you'd prefer a spring fork.
I do have a riding buddy who recently went from a KX450 to a KTM 350 after multiple injuries on the 450, and he couldn't be happier.
A 450 especially after 10 years away will have you worn out in 3 laps - not learning, not getting the timing back, not gaining any fitness etc.
Look for the cleanest lowest hours 250f you can, get the suspension dialed, and buy a stationary bike for at home or your torture machine of choice.
Put on some races while working out and getting leaner and fitter for the next time out on the bike.
After a season or two if you seriously want a 450 , sell the 250 and grab one.
If you get the 450 and it holds you back from progressing that’s worse than you being able to push hard on the 250f and asking it for more, at least in my opinion.
Getting the feeling and timing back takes laps and laps. 250fs let you do that easier than any other bike made.
Many will say lugging a 450 is easy, but they are still more tiring, heavier, and more to handle from the time you lift them off the stand to exiting a corner.
The aversion to air forks comes from a life of building fast cars, I just don't like the concept or the air spring and I don't doubt they can be good, and checking air pressure when warm / for different environments isn't a big ask, but on a pure performance machine I would just be much happier personally with springs especially at my (over)weight which could tax it further.
The reduced stress on a used 450's motor is another point for it, though I know some go 150 hours or more on an untouched 350, I'd be the guy who bought a 30 hour 350 and rode it slowly and it STILL went pop just from bad luck 😂
For the record, I have ridden a modern TC 250 although only in a field briefly so I don't really count it, and I thought it was sweet but I'd prefer the smoother power these days.
Pit Row
Don’t narrow your choices to 450 vs 350.
There’s so many stories I’ve seen and in person seen people show up at the track with a brand new gear, new bike, go out on the track spin a lap or two and then stand around/sit in they’re truck until they load up and leave.
Most likely they went out realized holy hell this isn’t what I expected/I’m not as young as I once was/this is terrifying/everyone’s so fast/I’m so fat and don’t belong out here/etc
And to me 450s add to that dramatically when your readjusting.
I’ve given my input, and if you find a clean example your considering post it up here. There’s some eagle eyes with a lot of experience buying used bikes who can help you out.
Yzs always had spring forks, rmzs before 2013 were spring fork, and after 2018 for 450s and 2019 for the 250 were spring forks,
Kawi pre 13 spring forks and again after 19 and 20 450/250 respectively.
Crf same pattern pre 13 and after 17/18 250/450.
A clean low hours example from the 10-12 era is perfectly suitable. Finding one with oem plastics and graphics, minimal case wear is the way to go.
And the 250fs needing endless maintenance is more or less a myth kept up since the 04 pile of shit Honda’s and Suzuki’s and is no longer accurate.
I’ve put 100s of hours on yz250fs with only ever needing to adjust the valves 2x on them over the years. No replacement heads, no pistons etc.
If anything the air fork is more suited to big dudes stock because you can pump up the air as opposed to riding around on a bike that's undersprung front and rear.
I was only slightly worried about the hit of a 450 before I got mine and the truth is on map one with TC on, it feels way more controllable than the 05 CRF I had as my last dirt bike.
#1 - The 350 is a more expensive option for you. They command top dollar in the used market.
#2 - I think they're more deceptively fast than a 450. Yep, you heard that right. You're getting confident and get ham fisted in a corner and that bike will get away from you. 450 = tractor. 350 = drag racer.
When riding my buddy's 2018 YZ450 back to back with my 350 I was blown away at how well the 450 picks my big a$$ up in the deep stuff, it's almost like you can daydream through the corners and come out good. Also rode a buddy's mint 2008 CRF450R and felt the same with regard to the pickup in the corners.. The YZ had a sweet powerband I honestly would consider riding one.
As far as airforks are concerned I did a coil spring conversion on my bike. At our weight you can't get the right sag from the stock shock springs and you'll need work on both ends to make the bike ride right. To make the front end balance with the spring/valving you have in the rear you'll need to ride with a very high air pressure which I think doesn't works wel. Just starting out a stock 450 will be fine for you, however if you had a 250F it would be a definite no-go.
IMHO you can't go wrong - get the nicest bike you can find and enjoy riding it. If it's a 250F you'll probably need springs and a revalve. If you go with a 450 I would look for an RMZ or a 2018 YZ (I'm telling you they're super sweet bikes). Good luck and welcome back!
TooTallJason, good to hear from a big dude on a ktm 🙂 I hear you on the air forks, I guess i shouldn't write them off, I just know I haven't liked air suspension on mountain bikes or cars. And my brain hurts when I try and rationalise air as a good decision. Oil and springs I understand, and they're constant, at least as far as makes a difference to me. I'd re-spring/valve regardless.
Again though, thanks for all the input, gives me a lot more to think about!
i just got my first 2018 450 (husky) last December, I was 250lbs at the time and it is by far the best bike ive ever ridden. It can be tame or it can be a fire breather... Really depends on that wrist control and the mapping you choose. I love the ability to get out of pinches that a 250f just cant do (I cant speak for a 350, never ridden one)...you also sound like someone who rides similar to me and once you learn how the bike rides and work on the basics again and get improvement.. you will not want to go back to a smaller bore.
don't do well will hurt you, 3 seconds at a time, Son has had 250t first, 350 second and now the 450 the 450 helps him every time he bobbles a corner which was alot, i used to count 1-3 seconds per turn the 450's would gain on corners he jacked up. Of course he loves the 450 everyone thinks you need it, you don't. 350 is a great engine from 2,000 rpms to infinity on a track.
If you are a ride a bike for 200-300 hours guy...and don’t want to spend big money on motor work...I’d avoid a 250...well, Id avoid a four stroke all together...but if you get one, get a 450 (especially if you like to ride a gear high and let the torque do it’s thing...which is a fun way to ride a bike too...as it’s easy on the motor) and if you are concerned about too much power, drop in one of the mild maps, and it will feel like a 250.
I’m 6 foot 185 lbs...been on 450’s since 2011....Currently a 2019 YZ450FX (which I love)...and I’m seriously considering a 2021 YZ250FX for my next bike. I rode a 20 and the only place I felt it was down on power was top end (top speed...I was always looking for another gear on that thing...but it was on stock gearing) and pure straight line acceleration. I’m a desert guy, so those two things are important to me. But everywhere else, I loved it! So you probably shouldn’t rule out a 250f....
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