Is this how Roger really sees things?

hamncheeze
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hamncheeze 10/22/2020 4:17pm
10/22/2020 4:17pm
GrapeApe wrote:
When the 250 program was in-house they won championships with Roczen and Musquin. TLD has struggled, but they haven't exactly had a Roczen or a Musquin...
When the 250 program was in-house they won championships with Roczen and Musquin. TLD has struggled, but they haven't exactly had a Roczen or a Musquin to work with either.
ZOBITO wrote:
Still far from the dominance they've had in Europe.
Euro big bore. Laughing

In seriousness though, I think part of this can be explained by the difference in rules around machinery, in that KTM can do much more to the bike in Europe. Also, my impression is that the factory-supported efforts by Yamaha and Kawasaki in Europe on the 250 are maybe not to the same level as they are here in the USA. And of course Honda doesn't even have an effort now. So I think when we combine both of those, the KTM raced in the USA has no clear advantage over its rivals.

Xeno
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Xeno 10/22/2020 4:31pm
10/22/2020 4:31pm
Nathan_Alexander wrote:
This is fun.
You worked for DeCoster, right? As Shorty's mechanic?
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inthebadboycorner 10/22/2020 4:57pm
10/22/2020 4:57pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I realize you're some kind of industry "insider" but I'm not sure if it's common knowledge who you actually are. How about putting your actual name...
I realize you're some kind of industry "insider" but I'm not sure if it's common knowledge who you actually are. How about putting your actual name to a statement like that .
Suicidal_Tendencies wrote:
He was a pretty decent pro in the 80s. I know his name, but I won't divulge it since it's not my place. I agree with...
He was a pretty decent pro in the 80s. I know his name, but I won't divulge it since it's not my place. I agree with a lot of what Uptite says, but on this one we we have to agree to disagree.

Roger has been tremendously valuable to every team he's been on, and manager or not, his teams are all loaded with Championships, and he guided team U.S.A. to all of its wins at the MXoN, and stuck with them in their losses.
Looking at the other side of the coin Roger has guided Team USA MXON to more loses than wins, and has guided more riders losing championships than winning titles, just saying.Wink
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UpTiTe 10/22/2020 6:54pm
10/22/2020 6:54pm
CPR wrote:
The list of riders who’ve won titles NOT under Roger would be shorter....

UpTiTe did Decoster kick your dog or something???
UpTiTe wrote:
How many times do I have to say this? Those guys didn’t ride for Roger, they rode for Dave Arnold who started at Honda in 79...
How many times do I have to say this? Those guys didn’t ride for Roger, they rode for Dave Arnold who started at Honda in 79 and built an empire until he quit in in 95.
CPR wrote:
You do realise that Dave Arnold was Roger’s mechanic at Honda in 1980? and then in 1981 Roger convinced Honda to make Dave the team manager...
You do realise that Dave Arnold was Roger’s mechanic at Honda in 1980? and then in 1981 Roger convinced Honda to make Dave the team manager while Roger oversaw the whole operation as ‘advisor’ right???
Yes, I said 79 because he was in bike development.

BUT, Dave was the one who got Roger the job as assistant manager.

I will say this, Dave does say Roger is a hard worker and a fantastic machinist and together they did develop some cool stuff.
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Lurk Ing
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Lurk Ing 10/22/2020 7:16pm
10/22/2020 7:16pm
UpTiTe wrote:
Are you really going to give him credit for RC? RC didn’t go with Roger, he went with the dollars, he went to Honda with Rogers...
Are you really going to give him credit for RC? RC didn’t go with Roger, he went with the dollars, he went to Honda with Rogers offer and said make a competitive counter and I’ll stay, they said no.

What other rider was unhappy so they went to Suzuki?
Lurk Ing wrote:
JMcG
Johnny Ringo wrote:
MC went there as a last resort
But he went there didn't he? That was the question. I'm not going to pretend I know the reasons why or what went on but from what I remember reading he wasn't happy with Honda or the alloy frame CR??
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Silas444
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Silas444 10/22/2020 8:45pm
10/22/2020 8:45pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2020 8:47pm
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever - EVER! - and it ain't close. Heck, I'm not ever sure who second place would be. Mitch Payton? A singularly impressive man, to be sure, but prior to his injury, he was never a world championship contender as a rider, let alone the winner of five open-class world championships at a time when the value of that title was at perhaps it's highest level. So who then? McGrath? Ricky Johnson? Carmichael? Everts? Were these guys booking flights to far-flung Central American countries to introduce their citizens to the sport? Hmmm? Because DeCoster did. I could go on and on and on, but this is all just so silly. Those of you trying to take The Man down a peg sound like bitter, loud-mouthed tunas spouting off saying the great white shark should never be considered the top-level ocean predator because it's teeth are way too loose and they fall out all the time.

Yeah?

Yo, tunas, say that to the shark's face.
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Crush
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Crush 10/22/2020 9:28pm
10/22/2020 9:28pm
Hard to sell sponsors, or even TLD on hey thanks for your money, you're job is to race for 3rd place only.
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brimx153
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brimx153 10/22/2020 9:41pm
10/22/2020 9:41pm
My opinion is Roger is a winner . Same as Mitch .they both have have tremendous success. But there greatest trate is also there worse . To be that successful, you have to be ruthless in a way . And most of us on vital just see the good things the winning, the being great manager s to RC, RD, RV etc . But i would strongly say you might have a very different opinion of them if you were a rider that failed to deliver. There loads of stories of when mitch went crazy with riders . Roger s one s have stay quiet. I would bet there are many just as raw as mitch has . I would think there s alot of people in the industry who might not be fans of both men . Not that there bad people or anything. But i do get the feeling they would step over there dead grandma to WIN . Its like J Bone , i think his biggest weakness in becoming as successful as mitch or Roger , is he is too nice ,too much of a stand up guy .



Ps. I thought the Izzi thing was common knowledge, its been mentioned here loads of time s by many people over the years .
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FerCzD
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FerCzD 10/22/2020 9:45pm
10/22/2020 9:45pm
Not related to the conversation. But who is managing Star Yamaha Team? I mean, they have turned in THE 250 powerhouse without Decoster.
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brimx153
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brimx153 10/22/2020 9:52pm
10/22/2020 9:52pm
FerCzD wrote:
Not related to the conversation. But who is managing Star Yamaha Team? I mean, they have turned in THE 250 powerhouse without Decoster.
Manager s are way overrated, its the rider for 90% ,on a good bike .i also say managers get way to much stick when they dont have good results. Againg 90% at least will be the rider. Ie . I dont credit any of Rogers MXDN win s to him ,nor do i blame him for any of there losses.
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inthebadboycorner 10/22/2020 11:28pm
10/22/2020 11:28pm
Silas444 wrote:
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever...
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever - EVER! - and it ain't close. Heck, I'm not ever sure who second place would be. Mitch Payton? A singularly impressive man, to be sure, but prior to his injury, he was never a world championship contender as a rider, let alone the winner of five open-class world championships at a time when the value of that title was at perhaps it's highest level. So who then? McGrath? Ricky Johnson? Carmichael? Everts? Were these guys booking flights to far-flung Central American countries to introduce their citizens to the sport? Hmmm? Because DeCoster did. I could go on and on and on, but this is all just so silly. Those of you trying to take The Man down a peg sound like bitter, loud-mouthed tunas spouting off saying the great white shark should never be considered the top-level ocean predator because it's teeth are way too loose and they fall out all the time.

Yeah?

Yo, tunas, say that to the shark's face.
You could say Pit Beirer is the real master mind.

He steered KTM from a boutique brand into a power house in racing, more championships than Roger.

In all classes and modes on Two wheels, on all sides of the pond and all this from a wheel chair.
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imoto34
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imoto34 10/22/2020 11:48pm
10/22/2020 11:48pm
TogaSet wrote:
I’ll give Roger Decoster the benefit of the doubt here.
It’s all just speculation anyway. He put KTM on the podium here in USA.
Brent wrote:
Yes I would second that. DeCoster has lots of credibility and his track record speaks for itself. Every team he has taken over has turned in...
Yes I would second that.

DeCoster has lots of credibility and his track record speaks for itself. Every team he has taken over has turned in to a powerhouse. If someone else disagrees with him then just compare track records.
Why does your picture thingy look like the little red head girl on shameless and rc at the same time?
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 10/23/2020 1:43am
10/23/2020 1:43am
TogaSet wrote:
I’ll give Roger Decoster the benefit of the doubt here.
It’s all just speculation anyway. He put KTM on the podium here in USA.
Brent wrote:
Yes I would second that. DeCoster has lots of credibility and his track record speaks for itself. Every team he has taken over has turned in...
Yes I would second that.

DeCoster has lots of credibility and his track record speaks for itself. Every team he has taken over has turned in to a powerhouse. If someone else disagrees with him then just compare track records.
imoto34 wrote:
Why does your picture thingy look like the little red head girl on shameless and rc at the same time?
https://m.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Congrats-to-the-kid,137810…
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robkinuk
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robkinuk 10/23/2020 4:23am
10/23/2020 4:23am


It's very easy to throw shit against someone's reputation from behind an anonymous keyboard name, but to me Roger has been the epitome of a true gentleman, a great champion and the sport's most successful Team Manager.
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Natester551v
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Natester551v 10/23/2020 5:07am
10/23/2020 5:07am
Silas444 wrote:
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever...
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever - EVER! - and it ain't close. Heck, I'm not ever sure who second place would be. Mitch Payton? A singularly impressive man, to be sure, but prior to his injury, he was never a world championship contender as a rider, let alone the winner of five open-class world championships at a time when the value of that title was at perhaps it's highest level. So who then? McGrath? Ricky Johnson? Carmichael? Everts? Were these guys booking flights to far-flung Central American countries to introduce their citizens to the sport? Hmmm? Because DeCoster did. I could go on and on and on, but this is all just so silly. Those of you trying to take The Man down a peg sound like bitter, loud-mouthed tunas spouting off saying the great white shark should never be considered the top-level ocean predator because it's teeth are way too loose and they fall out all the time.

Yeah?

Yo, tunas, say that to the shark's face.
This....
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Goon645
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Goon645 10/23/2020 6:06am
10/23/2020 6:06am
Silas444 wrote:
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever...
This thread might be proof of there being an alternate universe. Roger DeCoster has had the most profoundly positive, longest lasting impact on this sport ever - EVER! - and it ain't close. Heck, I'm not ever sure who second place would be. Mitch Payton? A singularly impressive man, to be sure, but prior to his injury, he was never a world championship contender as a rider, let alone the winner of five open-class world championships at a time when the value of that title was at perhaps it's highest level. So who then? McGrath? Ricky Johnson? Carmichael? Everts? Were these guys booking flights to far-flung Central American countries to introduce their citizens to the sport? Hmmm? Because DeCoster did. I could go on and on and on, but this is all just so silly. Those of you trying to take The Man down a peg sound like bitter, loud-mouthed tunas spouting off saying the great white shark should never be considered the top-level ocean predator because it's teeth are way too loose and they fall out all the time.

Yeah?

Yo, tunas, say that to the shark's face.
4
rohleder644
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rohleder644 10/23/2020 7:48am
10/23/2020 7:48am
Couple things.......the original discussion was about a couple anonymous insiders saying roger has created a hierarchy amongst the brands. Is that a bad thing? KTM could have bought those brands and closed them down. Instead, they kept the name and turned them into essentially red or white KTM’s. They want 3 different brands. For 3 different purposes. If GasGas is destined to play 3rd fiddle, so what? That’s nobody’s decision except the guy writing the check. And for all we know, that’s exactly what he wants and Roger is executing his plan perfectly.

How this turned in to a “Roger ain’t all that” discussion, I don’t know. I’ll say this though, The Man is routinely lauded over by the industry as a whole. Riders, mechanics, other managers, etc. So, he may not deserve 100% of the credit for any one rider or brand’s success. But, the industry seems to believe he’s The Man, and I certainly share that opinion.
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OLDMOTO
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OLDMOTO 10/23/2020 8:37am
10/23/2020 8:37am
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450 Supercross and the latest 450 Motocross? Using this logic Webb, Anderson and Osborne would have been moved to KTM and Musquin would be demoted to the Rockstar team and two new riders would go to the entry level GasGas team. Anderson won a 250 Supercross championship on a KTM wouldn't Roger have moved him to a KTM 450 instead of the Husky?
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therealhammer
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therealhammer 10/23/2020 8:43am
10/23/2020 8:43am Edited Date/Time 10/23/2020 8:46am
It’s been said A few times above . KTM lites program in Europe is varsity compared to the rest of the Junior varsity efforts coming from teams over there ( outside of yamaha as of recent ). No one can make the argument that Honda , kawi or even Suzuki are trying as hard over there in MXGP as they do here in the states . It’s not even a comparison between MXGP and the US racing .
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GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 10/23/2020 8:56am
10/23/2020 8:56am
I thought the sales hierarchy has Husky as the premier brand? I would think the race team hierarchy would follow suit, if there really is a race team hierarchy.

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8tensolutions
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8tensolutions 10/23/2020 9:11am
10/23/2020 9:11am
FerCzD wrote:
Not related to the conversation. But who is managing Star Yamaha Team? I mean, they have turned in THE 250 powerhouse without Decoster.
brimx153 wrote:
Manager s are way overrated, its the rider for 90% ,on a good bike .i also say managers get way to much stick when they dont...
Manager s are way overrated, its the rider for 90% ,on a good bike .i also say managers get way to much stick when they dont have good results. Againg 90% at least will be the rider. Ie . I dont credit any of Rogers MXDN win s to him ,nor do i blame him for any of there losses.
This statement is incredibly naive. The manager sets the tone, culture, provides the environment, and makes decisions for personnel that give the riders the tools to be successful. Yes, the rider twists the throttle, but there is so much more that goes into it. If not, why would riders ever switch teams? Roger has done just that everywhere he has been. MXDN is very different. He has no control of the bikes etc and its only for a few weeks. Look what he did at KTM by bringing all the key players which attracted the riders because they knew what he was capable of. That's leadership.

Another example is Tony Alessi the past few years at Moto Concepts and the Star Team with Will Hahn. Poor examples would be Tyler Keefe and Jeremy Albrecht.

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UpTiTe 10/23/2020 10:47am
10/23/2020 10:47am
OLDMOTO wrote:
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450...
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450 Supercross and the latest 450 Motocross? Using this logic Webb, Anderson and Osborne would have been moved to KTM and Musquin would be demoted to the Rockstar team and two new riders would go to the entry level GasGas team. Anderson won a 250 Supercross championship on a KTM wouldn't Roger have moved him to a KTM 450 instead of the Husky?
What if I told you that one of their top riders was being bullied into moving orange but stood his ground and told them he wouldn’t go and it caused a riff between management causing someone to loss their job?
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OLDMOTO
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OLDMOTO 10/23/2020 11:04am
10/23/2020 11:04am
OLDMOTO wrote:
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450...
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450 Supercross and the latest 450 Motocross? Using this logic Webb, Anderson and Osborne would have been moved to KTM and Musquin would be demoted to the Rockstar team and two new riders would go to the entry level GasGas team. Anderson won a 250 Supercross championship on a KTM wouldn't Roger have moved him to a KTM 450 instead of the Husky?
UpTiTe wrote:
What if I told you that one of their top riders was being bullied into moving orange but stood his ground and told them he wouldn’t...
What if I told you that one of their top riders was being bullied into moving orange but stood his ground and told them he wouldn’t go and it caused a riff between management causing someone to loss their job?
Is this to imply that they wanted Anderson or Osborne to move to KTM? Bobby Hewitt quit or was fired because of it?
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wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 10/23/2020 11:21am
10/23/2020 11:21am
OLDMOTO wrote:
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450...
So Rockstar Husqvarna is a second tier team to KTM? Roger gives them less support ?What about all those championships in 250 Supercross, 250 Motocross, 450 Supercross and the latest 450 Motocross? Using this logic Webb, Anderson and Osborne would have been moved to KTM and Musquin would be demoted to the Rockstar team and two new riders would go to the entry level GasGas team. Anderson won a 250 Supercross championship on a KTM wouldn't Roger have moved him to a KTM 450 instead of the Husky?
UpTiTe wrote:
What if I told you that one of their top riders was being bullied into moving orange but stood his ground and told them he wouldn’t...
What if I told you that one of their top riders was being bullied into moving orange but stood his ground and told them he wouldn’t go and it caused a riff between management causing someone to loss their job?
My experience has been, when the boss tells me to do something, if I need the job, I do it. Maybe that's just me though...
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Forty
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Forty 10/23/2020 11:26am
10/23/2020 11:26am
It’s a rough business. Operative word being business.

For us it’s fun and beers after. For them it’s a job.

No thanks.
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EngIceDave
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EngIceDave 10/23/2020 11:30am
10/23/2020 11:30am
wreckitrandy wrote:
My experience has been, when the boss tells me to do something, if I need the job, I do it. Maybe that's just me though...
Some folks have contracts with specific promises and guarantees

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lostboy819 10/23/2020 11:31am
10/23/2020 11:31am
UpTiTe wrote:
I would agree, there was no intentions to get someone addicted. A lot of team personnel have hand out pain killers, it just sucks that when...
I would agree, there was no intentions to get someone addicted. A lot of team personnel have hand out pain killers, it just sucks that when a person did get hooked and asked for help, he was ignored.
Guys like Nico Izzi always claim to be the "victim" that is what addicts do they never accept responsibility for their actions.
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D_L118
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D_L118 10/23/2020 12:36pm
10/23/2020 12:36pm
UpTiTe wrote:
No.

Do you think Dungey needed Roger to be a champ?
Probably not. But you can't deny Dungey had a lot of trust in De Coster. Same with TP,RC,Reed,..
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RonJon
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RonJon 10/23/2020 12:50pm
10/23/2020 12:50pm
In my limited time in the industry, we sponsored some guys that rode for Roger or under one of his programs. If you are ever blacklisted in his book, you never get back in his good graces. Shorty going to Honda twice in his career wasn't a coincidence.
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numbers
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numbers 10/23/2020 12:55pm
10/23/2020 12:55pm
UpTiTe wrote:
He never managed team Honda, all those riders and hires were Dave Arnold, except Bayle, that was his idea. Like I said, take away RC and...
He never managed team Honda, all those riders and hires were Dave Arnold, except Bayle, that was his idea.

Like I said, take away RC and a chance meeting with Dungey, and he is a very average team manager.

Everyone claiming he hand picked Dungey out of the B class just makes me laugh, he was there resting for another Suzuki team and Decoster had no idea who he was.

If he is such a great finder of talent, how come literally all the amateurs that come up through his system fail?
CPR wrote:
Funny I haven’t noticed too many amateurs on factory 450s under Roger’s ‘system’. I’ll have to pay more attention.... Let’s put it this way; how did...
Funny I haven’t noticed too many amateurs on factory 450s under Roger’s ‘system’. I’ll have to pay more attention....

Let’s put it this way; how did factory Honda go while Roger was there? How Did Suzuki go? How has KTM performed since his arrival?
Coincidence? I think not.
You dont argue religion with the Pope.
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