How does Barcia not get docked..huge track cut

seth505
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seth505 9/27/2020 10:49am
9/27/2020 10:49am
Vital logic:

If moto incident
Then investigate
If Barcia
Then disqualify
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byke
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byke 9/27/2020 10:50am
9/27/2020 10:50am
I agree with the OP. Anytime someone has a bike problem, they need to keep riding on the track. What could go wrong?
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Mr. Afterbar
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Mr. Afterbar 9/27/2020 10:52am
9/27/2020 10:52am
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
I still don’t like this rule. It’s so open to interpretation. Needs to be cut and dry. Leave track, re enter where you exited.
philG wrote:
So as long as they took longer than the time he cut , that is all ok ... fuck me that is just plain dumb.. if...
So as long as they took longer than the time he cut , that is all ok ... fuck me that is just plain dumb.. if he tore his bike up he should ride it back in , and then let the mechanics fix it.. thats how it works, not just ride straight to pit lane 'to save time' .. thats where the 'advantage' comes from. Its not advantage relative to everyone else, its advantage relative to how long it would have took, if he did it properly.
He crashed at 28.30 and remounted ,at 28.20 and took off for the pits. So that is 10 secs.

He is already dismounted in the pits at 27.50 So that is another 30 secs.

He leaves the pits at 27.00 Another 50 secs.

When he crosses the line, he shows as being 1.10 down on the leader. 70 secs.

But he took he should have been 90 secs down based on the time he lost. So somewhere along the line there at 20 seconds unaccounted for .

Who it is is irrelevant, its just utter bollocks that a pro rider thinks he can just ride in from wherever he is and think its OK.. and even bigger bollocks that he doesnt get pulled for it .




str8line wrote:
It's cut and dry. And Marv hitting AC from behind is cut and dry. So how does one interpret the majority of posters supporting Marv and...
It's cut and dry. And Marv hitting AC from behind is cut and dry. So how does one interpret the majority of posters supporting Marv and Justin?
Morans.
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bvm111
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bvm111 9/27/2020 10:53am
9/27/2020 10:53am Edited Date/Time 9/27/2020 10:54am
If he rolled around the track you yayhoos would say he was blocking the leaders and not adhering to the blue flags or endangering other riders because he was going so slow.
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str8line
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str8line 9/27/2020 10:55am
9/27/2020 10:55am
bvm111 wrote:
If he rolled around the track you yayhoos would say he was blocking the leaders and not adhering to the blue flags or endangering other riders...
If he rolled around the track you yayhoos would say he was blocking the leaders and not adhering to the blue flags or endangering other riders because he was going so slow.
Gonna take your advice in your signature here.
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byke
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byke 9/27/2020 10:55am
9/27/2020 10:55am
Plus it's just stupid dangerous.
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str8line
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str8line 9/27/2020 10:56am
9/27/2020 10:56am
byke wrote:
Plus it's just stupid dangerous.
His bike was fine.
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/27/2020 10:59am
9/27/2020 10:59am
byke wrote:
Plus it's just stupid dangerous.
Then you take a DNF. Sucks that a simple tip over in the sand rips the shroud apart.
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byke
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byke 9/27/2020 11:03am
9/27/2020 11:03am
byke wrote:
Plus it's just stupid dangerous.
str8line wrote:
His bike was fine.
So what would the rule be then? Would we need a committee to determine what "fine" is and when you can pull off, versus when you must take a DNF?
philG
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philG 9/27/2020 11:10am
9/27/2020 11:10am
No wonder nobody takes our sport seriously.

'Can he just do that?'

'Yeah, seeing as he fell and was at the back and they had to fix it ,its fine'.

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byke
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byke 9/27/2020 11:18am
9/27/2020 11:18am
Just propose an alternative. "It's fine as long as you don't finish in front of the rider that was more seconds ahead of you than the number of seconds you may have saved by either riding on the track, or the number of seconds it would have taken you if you were riding on the track, but instead took the perimeter road"...?
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Robgvx
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Robgvx 9/27/2020 11:32am
9/27/2020 11:32am
philG wrote:
No wonder nobody takes our sport seriously. 'Can he just do that?' 'Yeah, seeing as he fell and was at the back and they had to...
No wonder nobody takes our sport seriously.

'Can he just do that?'

'Yeah, seeing as he fell and was at the back and they had to fix it ,its fine'.

So, I get the holeshot and crash my brains out in the first turn. It’s ok for me to get up, ride over through the infield to the final corner and wait until the leaders come round then rejoin in the lead without penalty...?
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levimx22
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levimx22 9/27/2020 11:39am
9/27/2020 11:39am
was he supposed to ride to the mechanics area, get his bike fixed, and then ride back to the spot on the track that he crashed at THEN re join there? do you want him to go back to the gate and do another start? lol. really what was he supposed to do? i promise you if this had happened to ANY other rider (factory, or not) they would of done the exact same thing.
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Spudnut
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Spudnut 9/27/2020 11:41am
9/27/2020 11:41am
str8line wrote:
Some serious flaws in logic in this thread. He got 16th. He should have gotten 20th. He gained an advantage by riding around the track.
You’re high you’re all high
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rohleder644
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rohleder644 9/27/2020 11:46am
9/27/2020 11:46am
There’s a bunch of conjecture on the how’s and why’s......I’m curious, does anyone know what the rule book actually says?

Dude had a killer performance to get back to where he was. But, if he blatantly broke the rules and gained an advantage in doing so, why shouldn’t he be penalized?
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Mit12
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Mit12 9/27/2020 11:48am
9/27/2020 11:48am
The AMA have a history of inconsistency with respect to rule enforcement. A PC rider believe it was Forkner got docked last year for doing the same thing.
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jorgechavez 9/27/2020 11:49am
9/27/2020 11:49am Edited Date/Time 9/27/2020 11:53am


Savatgy was penalized for this. Aside from stopping in the mechanics area what is the difference between this and what Barcia did yesterday? Maybe the rules differ from SX to MX?

Honestly though, the bigger issue here is that no one seems to know for certain if what Barcia did is against the rules or not. It doesn't matter what your opinion of it is, if he broke a rule he should be penalized and if he was fully within the rules then he obviously shouldn't be (and maybe that is in fact the case).
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philG
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philG 9/27/2020 11:51am
9/27/2020 11:51am
levimx22 wrote:
was he supposed to ride to the mechanics area, get his bike fixed, and then ride back to the spot on the track that he crashed...
was he supposed to ride to the mechanics area, get his bike fixed, and then ride back to the spot on the track that he crashed at THEN re join there? do you want him to go back to the gate and do another start? lol. really what was he supposed to do? i promise you if this had happened to ANY other rider (factory, or not) they would of done the exact same thing.
No, he was supposed to ride the track back to the mechanics area, like every normal racer would do at every race, everywhere else in the fucking world.

Then you fix the bike, then you carry on.

And if the bike doesnt get you there, we call that a DNF.



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TheLsho 9/27/2020 11:55am
9/27/2020 11:55am
He didn't cut the track then re join the race at a more advantageous part of the track. He rode beside the track (lappers he ended up passing do this later in the moto), then went to pit lane and took a 5er.
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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/27/2020 12:15pm
9/27/2020 12:15pm
byke wrote:
I agree with the OP. Anytime someone has a bike problem, they need to keep riding on the track. What could go wrong?
If you can't keep riding on the track until you get to the mechanic's area, then it needs to be a DNF.

Problem solved.

I'm somewhat of a Barcia fan, but I'm a bigger fan of at least trying to apply the rules consistently.
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byke
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byke 9/27/2020 12:18pm
9/27/2020 12:18pm
That sounds like a terrible idea. The choice shouldn't then be made by those who are incentivized to stay on the track as long as possible. If that was something you really wanted to do, then the more correct method would be to create new black flag criteria.
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/27/2020 12:30pm
9/27/2020 12:30pm
byke wrote:
That sounds like a terrible idea. The choice shouldn't then be made by those who are incentivized to stay on the track as long as possible...
That sounds like a terrible idea. The choice shouldn't then be made by those who are incentivized to stay on the track as long as possible. If that was something you really wanted to do, then the more correct method would be to create new black flag criteria.
You don't change anything. Unsafe bikes are black flagged, just like every other motorsport.
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byke
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byke 9/27/2020 12:33pm
9/27/2020 12:33pm
Soooo....you're fine with how this Barcia deal all turned out then? You don't want to change anything?
Question
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Question 9/27/2020 12:35pm
9/27/2020 12:35pm
philG wrote:
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone...
Crashes in the back, rides straight to the pits, cuts half the track out and no penalty... that is some top level BS right there. Someone got robbed there for sure.

Not how I would phrase it but I totally agree.

I laugh when he did it and I am again laughing right now that it can be even a debate.

The fact that I like Barcia or any rider has nothing to do with it, it is just that sometimes riders think they are on their practice track and not on a closed course where they are supposed to turn around on it.
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RG1
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RG1 9/27/2020 1:41pm
9/27/2020 1:41pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2020 1:42pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the...
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
By this logic it would have been okay for Osborne last week to pull off the track at the bottom of mount Martin and cut straight across to pit lane and get his front wheel changed. He would’ve still lost about 30 seconds so he’s still losing time, but a wheel change should cost you at least a minute to a minute and half compared to everyone else on the track. It doesn’t matter that you lost time compared to where you were. You didn’t lose as much time as you should’ve done. So you still gain an advantage
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philG
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philG 9/27/2020 3:14pm
9/27/2020 3:14pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the...
Unless his pit stop somehow gained him an advantage, there's nothing to complain about. Pretty sure that stopping, dismounting the bike while the mechanics ripped the shroud off more than offset any time difference that he would have had by riding around the track to get back to the pits.
RG1 wrote:
By this logic it would have been okay for Osborne last week to pull off the track at the bottom of mount Martin and cut straight...
By this logic it would have been okay for Osborne last week to pull off the track at the bottom of mount Martin and cut straight across to pit lane and get his front wheel changed. He would’ve still lost about 30 seconds so he’s still losing time, but a wheel change should cost you at least a minute to a minute and half compared to everyone else on the track. It doesn’t matter that you lost time compared to where you were. You didn’t lose as much time as you should’ve done. So you still gain an advantage
Yeah, that would have been fine ... i guess.

He would have lost some time, so its all good

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skankhunt69
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skankhunt69 9/27/2020 3:17pm
9/27/2020 3:17pm
A Mart did the same thing in 2015 never got penalized
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slipdog
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slipdog 9/27/2020 3:22pm
9/27/2020 3:22pm

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APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 9/27/2020 3:33pm
9/27/2020 3:33pm
byke wrote:
That sounds like a terrible idea. The choice shouldn't then be made by those who are incentivized to stay on the track as long as possible...
That sounds like a terrible idea. The choice shouldn't then be made by those who are incentivized to stay on the track as long as possible. If that was something you really wanted to do, then the more correct method would be to create new black flag criteria.
The choice is almost always made by the rider about whether or not to stay on the track. But if you have to leave the track at any point other than the designated mechanic's lane, then it should be a DNF. That sounds like common sense, but I guess it isn't as common as I would like to think. If you cut any portion of a track, then you almost by definition gain an advantage over whether you had to complete that section, so by not riding the track and instead taking the "smoother" way to the mechanic's area is automatically an advantage.

I'm thinking of this as a hypothetical, any rider. I would like to see Barcia finish the season strong, but that doesn't mean I think that rules should be bent or ignored.

Of course, I am one of those RC fans who still think that he should have been penalized more harshly for the illegal fuel, so there's that...............
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