How does Barcia not get docked..huge track cut

NewOldSchool
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NewOldSchool 9/27/2020 4:17pm
9/27/2020 4:17pm
MX752 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/09/27/451582/s1200_65E49DB4_6356_410C_9BB3_39038F46F0E9.jpg[/img] Forkner got penalized at Hangtown 2017......err something like that. Edit, link added https://racerxonline.com/2017/05/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-hangtown


Forkner got penalized at Hangtown 2017......err something like that.

Edit, link added
https://racerxonline.com/2017/05/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-hangtown
Yes, that’s a penalty enforced in real time correct thing to do. I agree with most he should’ve rode the track, if the bike doesn’t get you there then it’s a DNF, if you do what Bracia did enforce some sort of time penalty for that portion of the track.
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Elbows
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Elbows 9/27/2020 4:22pm
9/27/2020 4:22pm
I just heard that shady bunch at Star racing has filed a protest...😀
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blockhead17 9/27/2020 4:36pm
9/27/2020 4:36pm
I think there definitely needs to be a speed limit (somehow) whenever you aren’t on the track indoors and out
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bvm111
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bvm111 9/27/2020 4:57pm
9/27/2020 4:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2020 5:00pm
bvm111 wrote:
If he rolled around the track you yayhoos would say he was blocking the leaders and not adhering to the blue flags or endangering other riders...
If he rolled around the track you yayhoos would say he was blocking the leaders and not adhering to the blue flags or endangering other riders because he was going so slow.
str8line wrote:
Gonna take your advice in your signature here.
probably an advisable idea
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agn5009
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agn5009 9/27/2020 6:14pm
9/27/2020 6:14pm
Remember a few years ago when Dungeys bike wouldn't start and he had a legendary ride back to like 7th place or something..... imagine if he had just cut the track and got behind the last place rider. So some here are saying it would have been fine if he did that?
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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/27/2020 6:25pm
9/27/2020 6:25pm
agn5009 wrote:
Remember a few years ago when Dungeys bike wouldn't start and he had a legendary ride back to like 7th place or something..... imagine if he...
Remember a few years ago when Dungeys bike wouldn't start and he had a legendary ride back to like 7th place or something..... imagine if he had just cut the track and got behind the last place rider. So some here are saying it would have been fine if he did that?
Yep, the Race Director's don't need to re-imagine the rules.
Dust601
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Dust601 9/27/2020 7:39pm
9/27/2020 7:39pm
Lloydcarter wrote:
How tf is this even a discussion LOL
I just read the entire thread, and this sums of my thoughts perfectly.

“Well he came out of the pits in last place so it’s ok” is one of the dumber takes I’ve read on here in awhile.

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philG
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philG 9/28/2020 1:02am
9/28/2020 1:02am
MX752 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/09/27/451582/s1200_65E49DB4_6356_410C_9BB3_39038F46F0E9.jpg[/img] Forkner got penalized at Hangtown 2017......err something like that. Edit, link added https://racerxonline.com/2017/05/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-hangtown


Forkner got penalized at Hangtown 2017......err something like that.

Edit, link added
https://racerxonline.com/2017/05/24/sign-of-the-lap-times-hangtown
NewOldSchool wrote:
Yes, that’s a penalty enforced in real time correct thing to do. I agree with most he should’ve rode the track, if the bike doesn’t get...
Yes, that’s a penalty enforced in real time correct thing to do. I agree with most he should’ve rode the track, if the bike doesn’t get you there then it’s a DNF, if you do what Bracia did enforce some sort of time penalty for that portion of the track.
That was BS too.. 'well we waited till he was at the back'.. jesus christ.
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Radical
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Radical 9/28/2020 1:20am
9/28/2020 1:20am
I think it's best that a rider doesn't ride a broken bike at 1 mph on the track to get back to the mechanics area.
But, if a rider does leave the track, he should re-enter in the same spot, period.
And, I believe there already is a speed limit when off the track.
It isn't always enforced.
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jemcee
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jemcee 9/28/2020 1:36am
9/28/2020 1:36am
Radical wrote:
I think it's best that a rider doesn't ride a broken bike at 1 mph on the track to get back to the mechanics area. But...
I think it's best that a rider doesn't ride a broken bike at 1 mph on the track to get back to the mechanics area.
But, if a rider does leave the track, he should re-enter in the same spot, period.
And, I believe there already is a speed limit when off the track.
It isn't always enforced.
If the bike can only go 1 mph then it won't matter how fast he gets to the mechanics area..
I do get what point you're making but if the bike isn't able to get around a track then what are the mechanics gonna be able to do on the side of the track?
Thisusernameisavailable 9/28/2020 1:45am
9/28/2020 1:45am
2thefront wrote:
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an...
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an advantage by cutting the track. Just because it took him out of contention for the win doesn't mean it had no impact on someone's race.
aeffertz wrote:
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he...
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he was in last place. That's not an "off track advantage".
But if when he rejoined the race he was 20 seconds behind the next rider,
Whereas if he had ridden the circuit and then went to the pits he would’ve rejoined the race 50 seconds behind the next rider.

That’s an advantage gained, no?
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ctbale
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ctbale 9/28/2020 2:27am
9/28/2020 2:27am
2thefront wrote:
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an...
Teasdale finished 9 sec behind Barcia. He definitely shaved off 9 sec by cutting the track and not doing the jumps so yes, he gained an advantage by cutting the track. Just because it took him out of contention for the win doesn't mean it had no impact on someone's race.
aeffertz wrote:
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he...
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he was in last place. That's not an "off track advantage".
Thisusernameisavailable wrote:
But if when he rejoined the race he was 20 seconds behind the next rider, Whereas if he had ridden the circuit and then went to...
But if when he rejoined the race he was 20 seconds behind the next rider,
Whereas if he had ridden the circuit and then went to the pits he would’ve rejoined the race 50 seconds behind the next rider.

That’s an advantage gained, no?
That’s an advantage gained, yes.
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Yeti831
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Yeti831 9/28/2020 3:14am
9/28/2020 3:14am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2020 10:22am
Reading some some of these comments did bring up a valid point I failed to notice, and that's that literally every other motorsport has a designated pit entry and egress point.

Wouldn't be a bad idea actually.

My opinion was going by what ama rules state. Doesn't mean I agree with the rules.

Entry and exit points should be a thing. Bike can't make it? Tough shit, wouldn't be the first mechanical in this sport and it won't be the last. 'Tis the life.
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philG
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philG 9/28/2020 6:20am
9/28/2020 6:20am
Yeti831 wrote:
Reading some some of these comments did bring up a valid point I failed to notice, and that's that literally every other motorsport has a designated...
Reading some some of these comments did bring up a valid point I failed to notice, and that's that literally every other motorsport has a designated pit entry and egress point.

Wouldn't be a bad idea actually.

My opinion was going by what ama rules state. Doesn't mean I agree with the rules.

Entry and exit points should be a thing. Bike can't make it? Tough shit, wouldn't be the first mechanical in this sport and it won't be the last. 'Tis the life.
Every event i have helped run that has a pit lane , has a clear IN and OUT. If a guy gets to be a pro, and he doesnt know , i worry, i really do.
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Patrick_Potato 9/28/2020 7:14am
9/28/2020 7:14am
Lloydcarter wrote:
How tf is this even a discussion LOL
str8line wrote:
Yet here we are.
Moto Justice Warriors. If a privateer ripped a holeshot and the same thing happened I doubt anyone would give two s**ts. He'd probably get props for "trying".
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Bramlett321
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Bramlett321 9/28/2020 8:51am
9/28/2020 8:51am
I think part of the issue here may be the inconsistency with how things like this happen each and every race. There are probably 2 or 3 privateer guys just trying to survive every race that have to pull in and have adjustments made for whatever reason...but we don't hear about that. Because it's Barcia it's a more obvious error and what he did could have had bigger consequences for the other riders.

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philG
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philG 9/28/2020 9:43am
9/28/2020 9:43am
Bramlett321 wrote:
I think part of the issue here may be the inconsistency with how things like this happen each and every race. There are probably 2 or...
I think part of the issue here may be the inconsistency with how things like this happen each and every race. There are probably 2 or 3 privateer guys just trying to survive every race that have to pull in and have adjustments made for whatever reason...but we don't hear about that. Because it's Barcia it's a more obvious error and what he did could have had bigger consequences for the other riders.
Do they cut the track ti get there?
FWYT
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FWYT 9/28/2020 10:10am
9/28/2020 10:10am
agn5009 wrote:
Remember a few years ago when Dungeys bike wouldn't start and he had a legendary ride back to like 7th place or something..... imagine if he...
Remember a few years ago when Dungeys bike wouldn't start and he had a legendary ride back to like 7th place or something..... imagine if he had just cut the track and got behind the last place rider. So some here are saying it would have been fine if he did that?
Good point!
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 9/28/2020 10:14am
9/28/2020 10:14am
And what type of racer knowingly cuts that much track on purpose...???
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 9/28/2020 11:32am
9/28/2020 11:32am
aeffertz wrote:
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he...
You're missing the big picture. He crashed and left the track in ~6th place. When he joined back on the track and into the race, he was in last place. That's not an "off track advantage".
By this logic, a guy leading the race could just start cutting off sections of the track without penalty.
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RichieW13
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RichieW13 9/28/2020 11:41am
9/28/2020 11:41am
"A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the course at the closest point to where the rider left the course, without gaining an advantage. If a rider leaves the course for any reason, the rider must immediately slow down to a safe speed so as not to endanger life or limb of other riders, crew members, officials, or the public. It will be the responsibility of the Race Director or his designee to determine whether the rider gained an advantage upon re-entry or failed to slow down after leaving the course. A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position. "
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tingo
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tingo 9/28/2020 11:52am
9/28/2020 11:52am Edited Date/Time 9/28/2020 11:58am
RichieW13 wrote:
"A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the course at the closest point to where the rider left the course, without...
"A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the course at the closest point to where the rider left the course, without gaining an advantage. If a rider leaves the course for any reason, the rider must immediately slow down to a safe speed so as not to endanger life or limb of other riders, crew members, officials, or the public. It will be the responsibility of the Race Director or his designee to determine whether the rider gained an advantage upon re-entry or failed to slow down after leaving the course. A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position. "
I didn't expect that he would re-enter the track where he went off. As it was happening, though, I did think his wide open excursion down the side of the track might come back to bite him. That rule has been enforced in the past. I'm guessing this is one of those shituations in which the officials decided to just toss the rulebook, and that he suffered enough penalty due to his unplanned stop in the pits. How about that pit exit, too. Braaaaap.
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SEEMEFIRST
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SEEMEFIRST 9/28/2020 12:04pm
9/28/2020 12:04pm
Radical wrote:
I think it's best that a rider doesn't ride a broken bike at 1 mph on the track to get back to the mechanics area. But...
I think it's best that a rider doesn't ride a broken bike at 1 mph on the track to get back to the mechanics area.
But, if a rider does leave the track, he should re-enter in the same spot, period.
And, I believe there already is a speed limit when off the track.
It isn't always enforced.
Looked like the bike was more than capable of going more than 1MPH.
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Falcon
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Falcon 9/28/2020 1:13pm
9/28/2020 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2020 1:14pm
The rule is to blame. It leaves too much open to conjecture, and once again relies on "the Race Director or his designee" to decide how to enforce.

At first I was on one side of this argument, but now I'm on the other. Barcia clearly found a small advantage by cutting the track. Also, since the rule states, "A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position," then the converse may also be true: that a rider could gain an advantage even while losing positions. For instance, like in this case, where he really could have been several laps down instead of simply in 40th.

I don't disagree with the outcome this time, however, because the rule wasn't written with this scenario in mind. "Gaining an advantage" should be more clearly defined so there is less reliance on the Race Director.
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PRM31
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PRM31 9/28/2020 1:49pm
9/28/2020 1:49pm
I didn’t think you needed to be too specific with the rules in closed course races to be clear that you need to actually follow the course. Skipping a large portion of the course to suit your needs most definitely gains you an advantage.
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Kevin852
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Kevin852 9/28/2020 1:56pm
9/28/2020 1:56pm
the only reason I think it was a non issue is because he crashed only two or three turns from the mechanincs area I. So he did not cut off large portions of the track but just a turn or two I think? No sure. ?

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Hcallz5
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Hcallz5 9/28/2020 3:59pm
9/28/2020 3:59pm
If he was in contention for the title it would probably matter more.
Dimblewambie
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Dimblewambie 9/29/2020 9:56pm
9/29/2020 9:56pm
Watching Cianciarulos GoPro footage made me think of this thread, so I Mississippied it in my head and it is 15 seconds from the corner where Barcia went down to the entrance of pit lane. Hardly “half the circuit” you cried out over.


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