What exactly does chain lube DO?

Paw Paw
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Benton, LA US
9/7/2020 3:53pm Edited Date/Time 9/7/2020 3:54pm
I have always viewed chain lube as way to lube the chain sprockets and not the chain. I use o-ring chains and thus the inner pins and rollers lubed from the inside and that is sealed. The outer part of the roller makes contact with the sprockets and thus that intersection needs lubrication. I use chain saw bar oil for this task as it will not sling off.
This has worked good for me for many years and I have yet to have a chain fail.

Paw Paw
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disbanded
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9/7/2020 4:44pm
Lube it up
428
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CA
9/7/2020 5:17pm
I lube mine after I get done riding while the chain's warm. I brush off excess stuff, lube it up, it's good to go next time...
I lube mine after I get done riding while the chain's warm. I brush off excess stuff, lube it up, it's good to go next time. I rarely pressure wash or even clean my bike because we ride 3-4x a week and I'd be constantly cleaning the damn bike so washing the lube off isn't usually a problem.

I've been using Maxima Clear Chain for several years and like it better than their chain wax. But I've been thinking about dry Teflon or the DuPont chain saver posted above.
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something that won't make a mess and fling off
9/7/2020 5:20pm
428 wrote:
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something...
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something that won't make a mess and fling off
Not really... because I apply it when I'm done riding, not before, it has plenty of time to soak in and there's almost no excess on the chain. If there is, I'll often run the chain brush over it before heading out.

The Bel Ray is good stuff, too.

The Shop

428
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9/7/2020 5:31pm
428 wrote:
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something...
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something that won't make a mess and fling off
Not really... because I apply it when I'm done riding, not before, it has plenty of time to soak in and there's almost no excess on...
Not really... because I apply it when I'm done riding, not before, it has plenty of time to soak in and there's almost no excess on the chain. If there is, I'll often run the chain brush over it before heading out.

The Bel Ray is good stuff, too.
Thanks...I'll give the maxima a try.
JAFO92
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9/7/2020 5:40pm
Havent used chain lube since the late 70s. Put an Xring on and forget about it. Hit it with WD-40 after washing to keep the spot rust away only. Lube attracts grit and turns a chain into a literal moving rat-tail file sawing away the sprockets.
5
9/7/2020 5:54pm
JAFO92 wrote:
Havent used chain lube since the late 70s. Put an Xring on and forget about it. Hit it with WD-40 after washing to keep the spot...
Havent used chain lube since the late 70s. Put an Xring on and forget about it. Hit it with WD-40 after washing to keep the spot rust away only. Lube attracts grit and turns a chain into a literal moving rat-tail file sawing away the sprockets.
X ring you can do that for sure
Lubing the chain is mainly about the pin/rollers. Where the x-o rings seal Is the place to concentrate your efforts on a non sealed chain. Ideally a warm chain will 'melt' the chain lube to allow it to penetrate into the pin roller section and then set when cooled down.
I like gear oil mixed with tungsten-disulphite powder. I also use Honda chain lube when the chain is hot and not sandy. The nozzle is awesome on the honda lube. Sprays nice and wide to access the outers and inners at the same time.
2
SEEMEFIRST
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Arlington, TX US
9/7/2020 6:09pm
If chains don't stretch, why did someone design a "stretch tool", and why do I use one at work regularly?

Trust me, chains stretch.
1
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walent215
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Ridgecrest, CA US
9/7/2020 6:21pm
walent215 wrote:
We lube our chains at the track multiple times throughout the day.... it definitely makes a huge difference on preventing wear etc...the other issue is heat...
We lube our chains at the track multiple times throughout the day.... it definitely makes a huge difference on preventing wear etc...the other issue is heat! Without proper lube the chain will generate heat that will cause all kinds of issues.

Alot of bikes pass thru my garage and one in particular comes to mind after reading this post. 07 Yz450 that i rebuilt and sold to a local kid . When i got the bike the chain had so much lube caked on it you couldn’t hardly tell it was a gold chain....after a week or so he brings it back for me to put a new rear tire on... i look at the chain that was very clean and gold now... lol... and VERY kinked...i assumed he bought a new chain and just hadnt lubed it ...i pull the rear wheel off and the spacer just falls out due to compromised seal... he rode that thing long /hard enough without lube it BURNED all the lube off ... now im not gonna say the heat transferred all the way to the seal and cooked it but his lack of maintenance / riding style really showed me how fast things go south when not performing simple maintenance.
So i proceed to ask him if he bought a new chain and of course he says no . I explain to him how important it is to lube the chain and keep it adjusted. Of course i lubed it for him before he loaded it up and headed down the road.

A month or so later i get a text from him asking if i could get a left side case for him.....Yes, he continued to neglect his chain and it finally came off destroying the case... Sorry for the long winded story but figured id share!


Oh. Wow. So... which would you rather see? The caked over chain? Anything actually WRONG with that, apart from the looks? I mean, that does bug...
Oh. Wow.

So... which would you rather see? The caked over chain? Anything actually WRONG with that, apart from the looks? I mean, that does bug me....but I don't know if there's anything actually WRONG with it of if it's just aesthetics.

Would much rather see the lube all over myself
2
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wfopete
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Dover, AR US
9/7/2020 6:23pm Edited Date/Time 9/7/2020 6:26pm
When it comes to O-ring/sealed chains; chain lube is one of the great marketing rip offs in the dirt bike industry.
1
9/7/2020 6:37pm
I like chain wax, it doesn’t fling at all. I also heat the chain a bit before spraying it on
2
9/7/2020 7:20pm
I lube mine after I get done riding while the chain's warm. I brush off excess stuff, lube it up, it's good to go next time...
I lube mine after I get done riding while the chain's warm. I brush off excess stuff, lube it up, it's good to go next time. I rarely pressure wash or even clean my bike because we ride 3-4x a week and I'd be constantly cleaning the damn bike so washing the lube off isn't usually a problem.

I've been using Maxima Clear Chain for several years and like it better than their chain wax. But I've been thinking about dry Teflon or the DuPont chain saver posted above.
428 wrote:
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something...
Do you find the maxima clear chain lube flings off? I use to use bel ray super clean but can't find it anymore. Looking for something that won't make a mess and fling off
Maxima Chain Guard does fling. I do still use it when I can’t find Motul Off-Road chain lube. That has been my go to for 15 years now and it works great. Maxima chain guard does work decent as well, but it does fling a bit.
1
philG
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GB
9/8/2020 6:26am
This. I use gear oil to lube my chains and it's way better than the spray on stuff.
I could be wrong, its called gear oil for a reason .
1
EngIceDave
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Merritt Island, FL US
9/8/2020 6:37am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2020 6:38am
My dad used to, and I know some who still do, remove the chain for washing, cleaning the chain by hanging from a nail or hooked to something, and once clean, towel dry and then place in a tub of old oil that's been run through a sieve/filter.

Leave chain in oil til you prep for next ride. Just hang from hook, allowing to drip back into tub, wipe off and put back on bike.

1
kb228
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Mansfield, OH US
9/8/2020 6:40am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
If chains don't stretch, why did someone design a "stretch tool", and why do I use one at work regularly?

Trust me, chains stretch.
They dont technically stretch. The result of the pins wearing is the chain getting longer and that is the perceived “stretch”. Chains arent rubber bands. Its semantics though. If you say it stretched i think most people know what youre talking about.
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9/8/2020 7:22am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2020 7:25am
SEEMEFIRST wrote:
If chains don't stretch, why did someone design a "stretch tool", and why do I use one at work regularly?

Trust me, chains stretch.
kb228 wrote:
They dont technically stretch. The result of the pins wearing is the chain getting longer and that is the perceived “stretch”. Chains arent rubber bands. Its...
They dont technically stretch. The result of the pins wearing is the chain getting longer and that is the perceived “stretch”. Chains arent rubber bands. Its semantics though. If you say it stretched i think most people know what youre talking about.
Right... it's not a tensile stretch like a rubber band. It's wearing of the pins/roller creating elongation. That's "stretch" by common terms, but not by engineering terms.

My original question was "WHY do O-rings last longer than non O-rings?" A non O-ring has _plenty_ of tensile strength so that's not the issue. The issue is wear between the pins and rollers, creating elongation.

So my NEXT question was "Can we lube a non-O-ring chain enough to reduce wear to the point where it matches an O-ring?" Maybe, maybe not, but squirting lube randomly is probably "Not".

So, then I wanted to know "What exactly does chain lube DO, then???" Well, it lubes the side plates which reduces friction and heat and that reduces wear, but a different KIND of wear. Okay, good enough!

Look... I work on guitars for a living, right? Guitar strings really don't "stretch" either. When a guy can't stay in tune, it's almost ALWAYS due to their technique of wrapping the strings around the tuner post or seating the ball end. This is why locking tuners and tailpieces suddenly stop "string stretch". String was never "stretching"... it was _slipping_. Knowing this helps me help a customer stay in tune. So, I'm just transferring that principle over to dirt bike chains and wondering if lubing the damn chain actually does what I want it to do.

3
9/8/2020 7:25am
I haven't used chain lube in 25 years. I clean the packaging grease off and don't put anything on my non- oring chain. People thought I was nuts but when they saw my chain lasted longer than their chains that were lubed they started to believe. For me adjustment is the key to chain and sprocket survival. I never let it get too loose or set it to tight and I'm good to go.
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9/8/2020 8:38am
I use No Toil lube I do when I come in so the chain the warm, it doesn't cake up and make a big mess. I go through maybe 3-4 cans a summer.
9/8/2020 8:44am Edited Date/Time 9/8/2020 8:45am
FWIW - the co-founder of one of the USA's predominant motorsports lubricant companies once told me that modern chains do not need lubrication.
1
2
Goofy Foot
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9/8/2020 8:53am
The purpose of an O/X/Y/Z ring chain is to keep grease inside the rollers so the pins stay lubricated. Right? And chains don't really "stretch". They...
The purpose of an O/X/Y/Z ring chain is to keep grease inside the rollers so the pins stay lubricated. Right?

And chains don't really "stretch". They elongate because they don't get lubed inside the rollers where the pins wear stuff out. Right?

When I spray chain lube/wax on the sideplates and rollers, there's no way in the world that enough gets inside the rollers to lube the pins against the rollers. No way. I'd think that soaking in 90 wt gear oil would be the only way to do that. Right?

So... does lubing really slow down chain wear? Friction, sure, I can 100% see reducing friction on the sideplates and letting the wheel/chain system move a little more freely, but wear and elongation?

In other words, can you lube a non-O-ring chain enough to mimic the durability of an O-ring chain?

Broseph wrote:
I think the points you bring up are totally valid. Sticky chain lube + dirt/dust = lapping paste that destroys sprockets and chain rollers. Try this...
I think the points you bring up are totally valid. Sticky chain lube + dirt/dust = lapping paste that destroys sprockets and chain rollers.

Try this stuff if you get a chance. It’s watery thin like penetrating oil, so it gets places gooey lube doesn’t, then it dries to a film that doesn’t collect dirt at all:
https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Chain-Saver-Self-Cleaning-Lubrican…


So this stuff doesn't fling off? If not, sounds like a great product and I'll be ordering some.
toomanykaws
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Henderson, NV US
9/8/2020 9:02am
Been using the Maxima Chain wax for years. Clean chain. Lube it. Days before I ride. It’s nice and dry when it’s used. Doesn’t attract much dirt. Brush chain clean before the next time it’s sprayed. Use it on my street bikes sparingly. Dual sport and adventure bikes. If I was riding extreme mud and water like up north. After power washing used WD40. Let it dry over time and spray with real chain lube still. Seen many chains fail out here in the desert even many are the guys who say. Lube isn’t needed. Smile .
1
O&GDriller
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9/8/2020 9:17am
I've done semi scientific testing of chain lube and drive component longevity over a two year period. My son and I ride the same track, same hours on identical 450 bikes with O/X/Y/Z chains and same brand sprockets and chains.

We would religiously lube my son's chain and leave mine dry without any lube. We found we got significantly more hours out of my "dry" setup than his lubed drive components. We wash our bikes after every ride so our chain and drive components were "clean" for the duration of testing.

As such, we no longer put anything on our chains...
5
Bearuno
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9/8/2020 9:36am
just James wrote:
When I was racing I would soak my chain in heavy weight motor oil, then the day before the race I would hang it from the...
When I was racing I would soak my chain in heavy weight motor oil, then the day before the race I would hang it from the rafters to let all of the excess drip off. Seemed to work well.
I used to do that, too. Only thing is, we ride 3-4x a week so not much time for the chain to hang and drip. I...
I used to do that, too. Only thing is, we ride 3-4x a week so not much time for the chain to hang and drip. I suppose extra chains would solve that, though. Treat 'em like air filters...

When I used a Road Bike for my daily transport, decades ago, I'd run 2 non o'ring ( they didn't exist at the time) 2 chains.

I'd use Duckhams Chain Lube : you'd clean your chain in kero/ turps, dry it, and then place it in the Duckhams tin, that you'd put on the stove, and heat up. The Duckhams was solid ( well, like Lard) and the chain would sink into it. The melted Duckhams would get fully Into the chain, then you'd hang it up above the tin, and the molten excess would drip off, back into the tin. You'd get pretty much no chain lube 'fling.

It worked brilliantly. I could put the Ducati(s) on the center stand, roll the chain off, and have the prepped chain on, in less than 10 minutes,. And do the clean and oil at my leasure, to have it ready for the next change over. I'd do it pretty much each week, as just getting to and fro to work, clocked up big Ks.

2 chains run like that, with high quality sprockets, lasted me many, many thousands of Ks, on the road.

I'd get better chain mileage than mates that ran Scott Oilers. Though, Scott Oilers / their like, were The Go, for extended touring. Still are.

Dirt Bikes? - I've used X rings since they came out, with minimal lubeing.

One day, a chain company ( if it hasn't been done already) will make a chain with not just Orings/ Xrings sealing the plates and pin to bush points, but the Rollers to the inner Plates. It would be a bloody expensive chain, but, if not too over the top in price, I'd buy something like that.

1
40acres
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Houston, TX US
9/8/2020 10:19am
just James wrote:
When I was racing I would soak my chain in heavy weight motor oil, then the day before the race I would hang it from the...
When I was racing I would soak my chain in heavy weight motor oil, then the day before the race I would hang it from the rafters to let all of the excess drip off. Seemed to work well.
I used to do that, too. Only thing is, we ride 3-4x a week so not much time for the chain to hang and drip. I...
I used to do that, too. Only thing is, we ride 3-4x a week so not much time for the chain to hang and drip. I suppose extra chains would solve that, though. Treat 'em like air filters...

Bearuno wrote:
When I used a Road Bike for my daily transport, decades ago, I'd run 2 non o'ring ( they didn't exist at the time) 2 chains...
When I used a Road Bike for my daily transport, decades ago, I'd run 2 non o'ring ( they didn't exist at the time) 2 chains.

I'd use Duckhams Chain Lube : you'd clean your chain in kero/ turps, dry it, and then place it in the Duckhams tin, that you'd put on the stove, and heat up. The Duckhams was solid ( well, like Lard) and the chain would sink into it. The melted Duckhams would get fully Into the chain, then you'd hang it up above the tin, and the molten excess would drip off, back into the tin. You'd get pretty much no chain lube 'fling.

It worked brilliantly. I could put the Ducati(s) on the center stand, roll the chain off, and have the prepped chain on, in less than 10 minutes,. And do the clean and oil at my leasure, to have it ready for the next change over. I'd do it pretty much each week, as just getting to and fro to work, clocked up big Ks.

2 chains run like that, with high quality sprockets, lasted me many, many thousands of Ks, on the road.

I'd get better chain mileage than mates that ran Scott Oilers. Though, Scott Oilers / their like, were The Go, for extended touring. Still are.

Dirt Bikes? - I've used X rings since they came out, with minimal lubeing.

One day, a chain company ( if it hasn't been done already) will make a chain with not just Orings/ Xrings sealing the plates and pin to bush points, but the Rollers to the inner Plates. It would be a bloody expensive chain, but, if not too over the top in price, I'd buy something like that.

BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe it is only ablvailable in 525 (road bike) size and rund about $300.
1
9/8/2020 10:29am
Feels good at first then it gets all tacky and chafes
Tracktor
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9/8/2020 11:06am
Tri Flo a couple times during day always on "inside" of chain below swingarm so centrifugal force can possibly push it into chain. WD-40 after washing to dissipate water.
Seems to work well. I think a lighter lube with teflon more often works better than a heavier lube once a day. I Can stand the sound of a dry chain so even if it doesn't work I'm not running ours dry.........
1
Muzzle
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Fantasy
9/8/2020 11:39am
I used to do that, too. Only thing is, we ride 3-4x a week so not much time for the chain to hang and drip. I...
I used to do that, too. Only thing is, we ride 3-4x a week so not much time for the chain to hang and drip. I suppose extra chains would solve that, though. Treat 'em like air filters...

Bearuno wrote:
When I used a Road Bike for my daily transport, decades ago, I'd run 2 non o'ring ( they didn't exist at the time) 2 chains...
When I used a Road Bike for my daily transport, decades ago, I'd run 2 non o'ring ( they didn't exist at the time) 2 chains.

I'd use Duckhams Chain Lube : you'd clean your chain in kero/ turps, dry it, and then place it in the Duckhams tin, that you'd put on the stove, and heat up. The Duckhams was solid ( well, like Lard) and the chain would sink into it. The melted Duckhams would get fully Into the chain, then you'd hang it up above the tin, and the molten excess would drip off, back into the tin. You'd get pretty much no chain lube 'fling.

It worked brilliantly. I could put the Ducati(s) on the center stand, roll the chain off, and have the prepped chain on, in less than 10 minutes,. And do the clean and oil at my leasure, to have it ready for the next change over. I'd do it pretty much each week, as just getting to and fro to work, clocked up big Ks.

2 chains run like that, with high quality sprockets, lasted me many, many thousands of Ks, on the road.

I'd get better chain mileage than mates that ran Scott Oilers. Though, Scott Oilers / their like, were The Go, for extended touring. Still are.

Dirt Bikes? - I've used X rings since they came out, with minimal lubeing.

One day, a chain company ( if it hasn't been done already) will make a chain with not just Orings/ Xrings sealing the plates and pin to bush points, but the Rollers to the inner Plates. It would be a bloody expensive chain, but, if not too over the top in price, I'd buy something like that.

40acres wrote:
BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe...
BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe it is only ablvailable in 525 (road bike) size and rund about $300.
I was just going to post this same thing. Very intriguing and if it does what they say it will, it will be very interesting to see how it might work in an off-road setting.

https://blog.motorcycle.com/2020/08/27/manufacturers/bmw/bmw-introduces-maintenance-free-m-endurance-chain/

3
Broseph
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Stevenson, WA US
9/8/2020 11:48am
The purpose of an O/X/Y/Z ring chain is to keep grease inside the rollers so the pins stay lubricated. Right? And chains don't really "stretch". They...
The purpose of an O/X/Y/Z ring chain is to keep grease inside the rollers so the pins stay lubricated. Right?

And chains don't really "stretch". They elongate because they don't get lubed inside the rollers where the pins wear stuff out. Right?

When I spray chain lube/wax on the sideplates and rollers, there's no way in the world that enough gets inside the rollers to lube the pins against the rollers. No way. I'd think that soaking in 90 wt gear oil would be the only way to do that. Right?

So... does lubing really slow down chain wear? Friction, sure, I can 100% see reducing friction on the sideplates and letting the wheel/chain system move a little more freely, but wear and elongation?

In other words, can you lube a non-O-ring chain enough to mimic the durability of an O-ring chain?

Broseph wrote:
I think the points you bring up are totally valid. Sticky chain lube + dirt/dust = lapping paste that destroys sprockets and chain rollers. Try this...
I think the points you bring up are totally valid. Sticky chain lube + dirt/dust = lapping paste that destroys sprockets and chain rollers.

Try this stuff if you get a chance. It’s watery thin like penetrating oil, so it gets places gooey lube doesn’t, then it dries to a film that doesn’t collect dirt at all:
https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Chain-Saver-Self-Cleaning-Lubrican…


Goofy Foot wrote:
So this stuff doesn't fling off? If not, sounds like a great product and I'll be ordering some.
Yeah, zero fling. It dries in just a few minutes. Doesn’t really build up either. It’s interesting stuff. I use it for all sorts of things now since it’s so mess-free (axles, foot peg pivots, etc).

I’m sure it doesn’t have the lubricity of a sticky chain lube or gear oil, but the chain runs clean in the nastiest conditions, and that’s enough to make me keep buying it.
Rooster
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Edmonton CA
9/8/2020 1:47pm
40acres wrote:
BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe...
BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe it is only ablvailable in 525 (road bike) size and rund about $300.
I don't think BMW is claiming that it doesn't "ever" need maintenance, just that it's an equal or better service time than the shaft drives it replaces.

Nothing lasts forever.
Rooster
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9/8/2020 1:52pm
I haven't used an O/X-ring chain since I saw the difference in horsepower on the dyno between those and a regular chain. All those rubber seals add a lot of friction to your final drive system.

Of course the majority of my riding was pavement based at that time. So the added benefits of a pre-lubricated and sealed chain were unnecessary.
1

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