What exactly does chain lube DO?

40acres
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40acres 9/8/2020 1:52pm
9/8/2020 1:52pm
40acres wrote:
BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe...
BMW just developed a chain that has the pins/plates coated in a proprietary material. The chain does not wear and requires zero maintenance. However, i believe it is only ablvailable in 525 (road bike) size and rund about $300.
Rooster wrote:
I don't think BMW is claiming that it doesn't "ever" need maintenance, just that it's an equal or better service time than the shaft drives it...
I don't think BMW is claiming that it doesn't "ever" need maintenance, just that it's an equal or better service time than the shaft drives it replaces.

Nothing lasts forever.
Okay
LKHill
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LKHill 9/8/2020 2:21pm
9/8/2020 2:21pm
Does lube do anything? Hello!
Broseph
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Broseph 9/8/2020 4:34pm
9/8/2020 4:34pm
Rooster wrote:
I haven't used an O/X-ring chain since I saw the difference in horsepower on the dyno between those and a regular chain. All those rubber seals...
I haven't used an O/X-ring chain since I saw the difference in horsepower on the dyno between those and a regular chain. All those rubber seals add a lot of friction to your final drive system.

Of course the majority of my riding was pavement based at that time. So the added benefits of a pre-lubricated and sealed chain were unnecessary.
Dyno charts show the 450SXF and 450XCF being almost identical. Same with the YZ450F and YZ450FX. I’m curious what difference you were seeing? Is there a chance the newer X ring chains don’t have as much drag as the older O ring style?
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SCC
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SCC 9/8/2020 4:37pm
9/8/2020 4:37pm
Just pressure wash the piss out it and let it rust until your next ride. It will loosen up after a few laps. Zero reason to use chain lube as most of the ace mechanics have mentioned in this thread.
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HighPlainsSquid 9/8/2020 4:43pm
9/8/2020 4:43pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2020 4:43pm
Broseph wrote:
Dyno charts show the 450SXF and 450XCF being almost identical. Same with the YZ450F and YZ450FX. I’m curious what difference you were seeing? Is there a...
Dyno charts show the 450SXF and 450XCF being almost identical. Same with the YZ450F and YZ450FX. I’m curious what difference you were seeing? Is there a chance the newer X ring chains don’t have as much drag as the older O ring style?
I looked hard for that information and didn't find it. I've got a new X-ring and sprockets sitting on the shelf for my 150 XC-W. I think what I'm going to do is attach a digital scale to the rear wheel and see how many grams of pull it takes to move the wheel. Then I'll put the new chain on and re-test. That'll give a real-life illustration of how much drag there is in the entire system.

Oughta do the same thing before and after a lube on the non-O/X ring chain.
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motoarmageddon 9/8/2020 8:47pm
9/8/2020 8:47pm
Lubing a chain gives a quarter horse on a dyno. So YES it does do something . And please dont listen to anything BMW says. That company thinks their “shit dont stink”. They dont even stand behind their “superior” bikes. If you have a warranty issue with a bmw bike, they say what did you do because our bikes dont break. Seriously. How ridiculous
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Ray Knight
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Ray Knight 9/8/2020 9:08pm
9/8/2020 9:08pm
Broseph wrote:
I think the points you bring up are totally valid. Sticky chain lube + dirt/dust = lapping paste that destroys sprockets and chain rollers. Try this...
I think the points you bring up are totally valid. Sticky chain lube + dirt/dust = lapping paste that destroys sprockets and chain rollers.

Try this stuff if you get a chance. It’s watery thin like penetrating oil, so it gets places gooey lube doesn’t, then it dries to a film that doesn’t collect dirt at all:
https://www.amazon.com/DuPont-Teflon-Chain-Saver-Self-Cleaning-Lubrican…


That Dupont chain lube is awesome! Bike stays clean, chain is smooth and quiet. They sell it at Walmart and its dirt cheap. I've used it for a long time.
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slipdog
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slipdog 9/8/2020 9:24pm
9/8/2020 9:24pm
I mix my own hillbilly concoction of 90% Rotella and 10% 3 in one.
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STLSharky
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STLSharky 9/9/2020 7:37am
9/9/2020 7:37am
LKHill wrote:
Does lube do anything? Hello!
yes, stupid question isn't it
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Phil109
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Phil109 9/9/2020 11:59am
9/9/2020 11:59am
I wash my bike after I ride. Check/brush it off. WD-40 the chain up enough so that it is spinning very free and smooth. Don’t touch it again until after the next ride. Would not lube a dirty ass chain at the track. Builds up even more dirt on the chain. Can’t be good.
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endurox
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endurox 9/9/2020 12:20pm
9/9/2020 12:20pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2020 12:20pm
Kal Gard chain lube is the only stuff that would last after a 80 mile desert race. The Moly really helps.
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Matt Fisher
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Matt Fisher 9/10/2020 7:43am
9/10/2020 7:43am
Broseph wrote:
Dyno charts show the 450SXF and 450XCF being almost identical. Same with the YZ450F and YZ450FX. I’m curious what difference you were seeing? Is there a...
Dyno charts show the 450SXF and 450XCF being almost identical. Same with the YZ450F and YZ450FX. I’m curious what difference you were seeing? Is there a chance the newer X ring chains don’t have as much drag as the older O ring style?
HighPlainsSquid wrote:
I looked hard for that information and didn't find it. I've got a new X-ring and sprockets sitting on the shelf for my 150 XC-W. I...
I looked hard for that information and didn't find it. I've got a new X-ring and sprockets sitting on the shelf for my 150 XC-W. I think what I'm going to do is attach a digital scale to the rear wheel and see how many grams of pull it takes to move the wheel. Then I'll put the new chain on and re-test. That'll give a real-life illustration of how much drag there is in the entire system.

Oughta do the same thing before and after a lube on the non-O/X ring chain.
Make sure to test it when the chain is warm. I've seen dyno results that show virtually no power loss once the x-ring chain was warmed up. I suppose an easy way to check this back to back with a cool chain would be to use a heat gun.
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Handy_andy_85
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Handy_andy_85 9/10/2020 10:01am
9/10/2020 10:01am
I heard the 2022 KTM was coming with a chain heater for that very reason. Quick 10 min pre heat before the holeshot.
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Rooster
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Rooster 9/10/2020 11:57am
9/10/2020 11:57am
Handy_andy_85 wrote:
I heard the 2022 KTM was coming with a chain heater for that very reason. Quick 10 min pre heat before the holeshot.
Hottest new mechanic trend in 2022.

Everybody's mechanic installs their chains at the starting line after removing them from specially heated chain bags. LOL!

Honestly there is a difference on the dyno. There might be something to this bring it up to temp thing though.

When I saw the difference, it was a brand new chain that was added as the only variant between runs. The dyno operator told me to expect lower numbers as soon as I showed him the chain I was putting on. So I doubt that this is really some closely held power secret. Seemed to be common knowledge when I learned about it.
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HighPlainsSquid 9/10/2020 12:57pm
9/10/2020 12:57pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
Make sure to test it when the chain is warm. I've seen dyno results that show virtually no power loss once the x-ring chain was warmed...
Make sure to test it when the chain is warm. I've seen dyno results that show virtually no power loss once the x-ring chain was warmed up. I suppose an easy way to check this back to back with a cool chain would be to use a heat gun.
Good point. Thanks for bringing that up.
Preston412
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Preston412 9/10/2020 6:28pm
9/10/2020 6:28pm
I was told to put lube on the O-ring chain when it is warm/hot so it liquifies and goes past the ring and use non oil base lube for on the fly lubricant
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Luxon MX
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Luxon MX 9/11/2020 2:08pm
9/11/2020 2:08pm
All this talk of dyno comparisons between chains is interesting, but are they of both clean and freshly lubricated chains? I could see a clean and freshly lubricated standard chain beating out an o- or x-ring chain on the dyno. But if they're representative of a chain mid-moto, where a lot of the lube has flung off the standard chain and it's dirty, I could see the o- or x-ring chain actually being better.
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chuckie108
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chuckie108 9/11/2020 2:46pm
9/11/2020 2:46pm
Some inertia dynos have a roll down feature to measure drive train loss. Come on serious engine builders- let’s see a dry/lubed standard/‘ringed chain shootout! Let’s settle this once and for all.
LKHill
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LKHill 9/11/2020 2:46pm
9/11/2020 2:46pm
Preston412 wrote:
I was told to put lube on the O-ring chain when it is warm/hot so it liquifies and goes past the ring and use non oil...
I was told to put lube on the O-ring chain when it is warm/hot so it liquifies and goes past the ring and use non oil base lube for on the fly lubricant
Lol, even when warm it's not going to get past the o-rings.
Brent
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Brent 9/11/2020 3:37pm
9/11/2020 3:37pm
LKHill wrote:
Does lube do anything? Hello!
gets my garage floor all slippery...
slipdog
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slipdog 9/11/2020 3:41pm
9/11/2020 3:41pm
Who's going to make the first DLC coated chain?
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CPR
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CPR 9/11/2020 4:34pm
9/11/2020 4:34pm
It’s quite easy OP, instead of analysing the various opinions here, find out for yourself:

Go buy a nice new chain and sprockets set, keep it well maintained and lubed, see how many hours you get out of them.
Then buy the exact same brands again, install them and don’t lube the chain for the rest of it’s life and see how many’s hours they last.

Let us know how you go.....but I think we already know the answer.
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HighPlainsSquid 9/11/2020 6:44pm
9/11/2020 6:44pm Edited Date/Time 9/11/2020 6:52pm
CPR wrote:
It’s quite easy OP, instead of analysing the various opinions here, find out for yourself: Go buy a nice new chain and sprockets set, keep it...
It’s quite easy OP, instead of analysing the various opinions here, find out for yourself:

Go buy a nice new chain and sprockets set, keep it well maintained and lubed, see how many hours you get out of them.
Then buy the exact same brands again, install them and don’t lube the chain for the rest of it’s life and see how many’s hours they last.

Let us know how you go.....but I think we already know the answer.
But that really doesn't answer my original question. Straight off the original post:

"In other words, can you lube a non-O-ring chain enough to mimic the durability of an O-ring chain?"

Evidently, you cannot.

Lots of you got sidetracked into thinking that I think chain lube does NOTHING and that was never the case. I don't have any doubt that chain lube does SOMETHING. I'm just wondering... since it can't get enough lube in the rollers to mimic an O-ring chain... just exactly WHAT it does. And I think we got that answered:

Chain lube lubes the side plates, gets some lube in the rollers, flings all over your swingarm, collects dust, prevents rust, gives you something to do between motos besides recover, costs money, and makes you not look like a beginner.






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ktmdan
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ktmdan 9/11/2020 9:43pm
9/11/2020 9:43pm
chuckie108 wrote:
Some inertia dynos have a roll down feature to measure drive train loss. Come on serious engine builders- let’s see a dry/lubed standard/‘ringed chain shootout! Let’s...
Some inertia dynos have a roll down feature to measure drive train loss. Come on serious engine builders- let’s see a dry/lubed standard/‘ringed chain shootout! Let’s settle this once and for all.
To do it right you'd really want to isolate the primary/secondary sprockets with their own input/output dynos and in-line torque meters, as opposed to running a bike on a chassis dyno. I'm curious if any moto engine builders have the means to accurately determine the efficiency differences between two chains.
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CPR
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CPR 9/11/2020 11:37pm
9/11/2020 11:37pm
CPR wrote:
It’s quite easy OP, instead of analysing the various opinions here, find out for yourself: Go buy a nice new chain and sprockets set, keep it...
It’s quite easy OP, instead of analysing the various opinions here, find out for yourself:

Go buy a nice new chain and sprockets set, keep it well maintained and lubed, see how many hours you get out of them.
Then buy the exact same brands again, install them and don’t lube the chain for the rest of it’s life and see how many’s hours they last.

Let us know how you go.....but I think we already know the answer.
HighPlainsSquid wrote:
But that really doesn't answer my original question. Straight off the original post: "In other words, can you lube a non-O-ring chain enough to mimic the...
But that really doesn't answer my original question. Straight off the original post:

"In other words, can you lube a non-O-ring chain enough to mimic the durability of an O-ring chain?"

Evidently, you cannot.

Lots of you got sidetracked into thinking that I think chain lube does NOTHING and that was never the case. I don't have any doubt that chain lube does SOMETHING. I'm just wondering... since it can't get enough lube in the rollers to mimic an O-ring chain... just exactly WHAT it does. And I think we got that answered:

Chain lube lubes the side plates, gets some lube in the rollers, flings all over your swingarm, collects dust, prevents rust, gives you something to do between motos besides recover, costs money, and makes you not look like a beginner.






In other words, can you lube a non-O-ring chain enough to mimic the durability of an O-ring chain?"

NO
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mxtech1
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mxtech1 9/12/2020 11:31am
9/12/2020 11:31am
slipdog wrote:
Who's going to make the first DLC coated chain?
Regina just did, it's in the tech release. Ta-C coating is a variant of DLC. The project was a joint R&D effort between BMW & Regina, BMW will implement the chain on high end touring models & then the chain goes public/aftermarket in Jan 2021
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slipdog
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slipdog 9/12/2020 2:21pm
9/12/2020 2:21pm
slipdog wrote:
Who's going to make the first DLC coated chain?
mxtech1 wrote:
Regina just did, it's in the tech release. Ta-C coating is a variant of DLC. The project was a joint R&D effort between BMW & Regina...
Regina just did, it's in the tech release. Ta-C coating is a variant of DLC. The project was a joint R&D effort between BMW & Regina, BMW will implement the chain on high end touring models & then the chain goes public/aftermarket in Jan 2021
Nice... Thanks for the info, I was not aware of that!
JMR1976
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JMR1976 9/12/2020 10:51pm
9/12/2020 10:51pm Edited Date/Time 9/12/2020 10:54pm
ATKpilot99 wrote:
It lubes the chain ?
It puts the lotion on it’s skin!
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