JT's Strategy Recommendation for Suzuki

fullfloater 5/12/2020 2:53am
5/12/2020 2:53am
chump6784 wrote:
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my...
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my wife a 2020 yz125 for Christmas and paid $9500. Not much of an increase in 19 years
$14k in 2001! He could have bought a house...
roninho
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roninho 5/12/2020 2:53am
5/12/2020 2:53am
Crush wrote:
It is a good idea but I think the fact that the bikes are meant to be competition focused exposes a flaw in that idea... Cars...
It is a good idea but I think the fact that the bikes are meant to be competition focused exposes a flaw in that idea... Cars are competing on value and performance sure, but not like a race interpretation of performance...

Yamaha could do the same with their 2 stroke lineup – it's not had any R&D since 2008? What do they cost new compared to then, or a KTM/Husky?
Motofinne wrote:
The YZ 125 & 250 are only a couple of hundreds less than the SX counterpart, which is insane. The margins that Yamaha has on those...
The YZ 125 & 250 are only a couple of hundreds less than the SX counterpart, which is insane. The margins that Yamaha has on those bikes are probably astronomical compared to the KTMs and Husqvarnas.

2020 YZ 125 in Finland: 7790€
2020 SX 125 in Finland: 8395€

But they still sell enough of them globally, so no need to dump the MSRP.
Yamaha also has the advantage that if i want a 125 that isnt a KTM (white or orange) i can only buy a Yamaha.

In Suzuki's case: If i want a 250 or 450 that isnt a ktm i can buy a Yamaha, Honda, Kawa or a Suzuki.
Crush
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Crush 5/12/2020 3:07am
5/12/2020 3:07am
chump6784 wrote:
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my...
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my wife a 2020 yz125 for Christmas and paid $9500. Not much of an increase in 19 years
35% increase for a bike that hasn't seen development in 15 years?
fullfloater 5/12/2020 3:11am
5/12/2020 3:11am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 3:13am
chump6784 wrote:
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my...
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my wife a 2020 yz125 for Christmas and paid $9500. Not much of an increase in 19 years
Crush wrote:
35% increase for a bike that hasn't seen development in 15 years?
I actually can't believe that an entry level 125 2-stroke is $10k in Australia.

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downard254
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downard254 5/12/2020 3:46am
5/12/2020 3:46am
Suzuki has always had the handling of the bike where it needs to be, but I’m wondering if they could dump that BRF (or whatever they call it) shock and go back to a known unit. Hell, if they could just throw on some KYB SSS stuff and get it dialed in, the bike could realistically run a competitive lap time compared to the others. I can’t imagine that the motor is so weak that it is killing a competitive lap time. Sure it’s heavier than the others, but it seems most don’t notice it on the track. I don’t know what the answer is, maybe there’s just too many fish in the pond and now here comes Gas Gas.
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yz133rider 5/12/2020 3:46am
5/12/2020 3:46am
chump6784 wrote:
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my...
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my wife a 2020 yz125 for Christmas and paid $9500. Not much of an increase in 19 years
Crush wrote:
35% increase for a bike that hasn't seen development in 15 years?
fullfloater wrote:
I actually can't believe that an entry level 125 2-stroke is $10k in Australia.
Yeah in 2001 it was top of the line in 2020 its 15 years without any development. I can hear the arguements already that 35% increase hardly covers inflation, bro. So the price hasnt moved at all.

Ok fine, well it isnt the same bike now as it was then either. Now its an entry level, outdated, hasnt had a lick of r&d and isnt even pretending to be updated.

They have parts that fit it that are lighter, better on the shelf, and dont even slap them on. Cant even be bothered to pretend.

So honestly the bike shouldn't even cost in today's dollars what it did in 2006. It isnt the same product any longer. It being the exact same bike as it was is evidence of that.
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Dougy1
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Dougy1 5/12/2020 3:50am
5/12/2020 3:50am
It’s amazing all these fantastic ideas
I own a Rmz and love it but fucked if I could be bothered coming up with ideas how to help a huge company re engineer or re market there off road motor cycle ..
nascarnate326 5/12/2020 4:33am
5/12/2020 4:33am
I love how people complain about the YZ. If you don't like it don't buy one. That being said, almost every time I go to the track there is one person on a fresh 15 year old bike they just got brand new.


Another thought, if Suzuki really did drop the price to 5k OR put some R &D into the bike in the form of electric start and a new shock....would you ACTUALLY buy one new?
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Falcon
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Falcon 5/12/2020 7:35am
5/12/2020 7:35am
The part that I find hilarious is how most guys on here rip on the Suzuki like it's a poor design. Sure, it comes in last in the shootouts, but that's because somebody's bike has to. If it is only 99.9% as good as the rest of the machines, it must suck balls. Dry
All the same naysayers were saying the same things in 2012 and 2015, but if they had a 2018 RM-Z back then it would be the greatest thing ever. Sure, you have to be competitive model year vs. model year, but the bike is very competitive. More so, much more so, than most detractors are giving it credit for.
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Motofinne
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Motofinne 5/12/2020 7:42am
5/12/2020 7:42am Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 7:42am
Falcon wrote:
The part that I find hilarious is how most guys on here rip on the Suzuki like it's a poor design. Sure, it comes in last...
The part that I find hilarious is how most guys on here rip on the Suzuki like it's a poor design. Sure, it comes in last in the shootouts, but that's because somebody's bike has to. If it is only 99.9% as good as the rest of the machines, it must suck balls. Dry
All the same naysayers were saying the same things in 2012 and 2015, but if they had a 2018 RM-Z back then it would be the greatest thing ever. Sure, you have to be competitive model year vs. model year, but the bike is very competitive. More so, much more so, than most detractors are giving it credit for.
Did you say that about KTM 8-10 years ago?
deadlo
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deadlo 5/12/2020 7:49am
5/12/2020 7:49am
Falcon wrote:
The part that I find hilarious is how most guys on here rip on the Suzuki like it's a poor design. Sure, it comes in last...
The part that I find hilarious is how most guys on here rip on the Suzuki like it's a poor design. Sure, it comes in last in the shootouts, but that's because somebody's bike has to. If it is only 99.9% as good as the rest of the machines, it must suck balls. Dry
All the same naysayers were saying the same things in 2012 and 2015, but if they had a 2018 RM-Z back then it would be the greatest thing ever. Sure, you have to be competitive model year vs. model year, but the bike is very competitive. More so, much more so, than most detractors are giving it credit for.
We more-so rip on the suzuki fanboys throwing out numbers like “it’s 99.9% as good,” and phrases such as “real men prefer a kickstarter.”
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bh84
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bh84 5/12/2020 8:58am
5/12/2020 8:58am
Kawasaki released the KLX300 for 2020, we got one used at the shop and I figured I'd try it out. The bike is great fun. Its easy to ride, quiet, and MSRP is $5999CAD. As someone who would consider themselves a novice/casual rider I think its a fantastic bike for the money. EFI, electric start, liquid cooled DOHC with inverted forks. Its a steel frame but thats fine really. My only gripe with it was that the forks were valved too softly, if you hit a rut hard it really dives.
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JAFO92 5/12/2020 9:40am
5/12/2020 9:40am
deadlo wrote:
We more-so rip on the suzuki fanboys throwing out numbers like “it’s 99.9% as good,” and phrases such as “real men prefer a kickstarter.”
I actually am a real man and I actually do prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get.

However I dont care if other guys want an electric start, Im glad there is still a choice out there.
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Sharc
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Sharc 5/12/2020 9:50am
5/12/2020 9:50am
JAFO92 wrote:
I actually [i]am[/i] a real man and I actually [i]do[/i] prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get...
I actually am a real man and I actually do prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get.

However I dont care if other guys want an electric start, Im glad there is still a choice out there.


....simple - yeah- ok

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deadlo
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deadlo 5/12/2020 9:53am
5/12/2020 9:53am
deadlo wrote:
We more-so rip on the suzuki fanboys throwing out numbers like “it’s 99.9% as good,” and phrases such as “real men prefer a kickstarter.”
JAFO92 wrote:
I actually [i]am[/i] a real man and I actually [i]do[/i] prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get...
I actually am a real man and I actually do prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get.

However I dont care if other guys want an electric start, Im glad there is still a choice out there.
Absolutely no problem with that. The statement I’m making here are you guys saying dudes with e start aren’t a real man.. probably the most childish statement that can be made and I see it all the time on here.

Also using the excuse of “if the suzuki is so bad how did RC win a championship on it”. As if that has anything whatsoever to do with their current bike, not to mention how un-stock a factory bike is.

So yeah, as I stated, we’re more ripping on those guys and not as much the bike. We all know it’s the worst stock bike, still can be competitive, and doesn’t need much to be really solid. It’s really just fun poking at suzuki guys that think it is perfect and every shootout and opinion otherwise is wrong.
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JustMX
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JustMX 5/12/2020 10:05am
5/12/2020 10:05am
JAFO92 wrote:
I actually [i]am[/i] a real man and I actually [i]do[/i] prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get...
I actually am a real man and I actually do prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get.

However I dont care if other guys want an electric start, Im glad there is still a choice out there.
Sharc wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2020/04/20/421794/s1200_IMG_4255_ps1.jpg[/img] ....simple - yeah- ok


....simple - yeah- ok

LMAO

Had a hay supplier that traded in his kubota on another brand.

He said the last straw was being told he would have to wait 5 days for a freaking radiator hose.

He bought a kioti and has been raving about it for 2 years now.

There is something to be said for parts availability, expense, and simplicity.
Black Diesel Bomber 5/12/2020 10:32am
5/12/2020 10:32am
deadlo wrote:
We more-so rip on the suzuki fanboys throwing out numbers like “it’s 99.9% as good,” and phrases such as “real men prefer a kickstarter.”
JAFO92 wrote:
I actually [i]am[/i] a real man and I actually [i]do[/i] prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get...
I actually am a real man and I actually do prefer a kick start bike. I want machines that are as simple as they can get.

However I dont care if other guys want an electric start, Im glad there is still a choice out there.
deadlo wrote:
Absolutely no problem with that. The statement I’m making here are you guys saying dudes with e start aren’t a real man.. probably the most childish...
Absolutely no problem with that. The statement I’m making here are you guys saying dudes with e start aren’t a real man.. probably the most childish statement that can be made and I see it all the time on here.

Also using the excuse of “if the suzuki is so bad how did RC win a championship on it”. As if that has anything whatsoever to do with their current bike, not to mention how un-stock a factory bike is.

So yeah, as I stated, we’re more ripping on those guys and not as much the bike. We all know it’s the worst stock bike, still can be competitive, and doesn’t need much to be really solid. It’s really just fun poking at suzuki guys that think it is perfect and every shootout and opinion otherwise is wrong.
E starts are great for convenience of course, and it makes some very technical rides much easier to get going again after a tip over or stall. I also have an old kickstart Suzuki and it doesn't bother me because we have been kicking bikes since their inception, and it's no big deal for me to kick my bike to start it. I did run into a group of guys sitting around up in the hills on who were stranded because someone's battery died on their brand new bike. And considering you can't just jumpstart it and ride off, the E start does cause problems occasionally, but not enough to offset the convenience of it.

With that said, I do not believe E starts should be allowed in professional racing. It has changed the game completely as there are no penalties for making mistakes and falling/stalling anymore. Just pick the bike up and press a button and you are instantly back on the track again like magic! This has never been possible in professional racing and it has never been so easy to recover from a mistake. Crashing and stalling has lost championships to the consistent riders who keep it on two wheels....this does not apply anymore with the introduction of E starts.

And no, this is not like the evolution of 4" travel suspension to modern suspension. Suspension does not need to be kick started to get working again and back on the track. Suspension or other advancements do not cause you to go a lap down and waste half your energy trying to get going again. There is absolutely nothing in the evolution of bike technology that can compare to the advantage of E start in racing.
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Thisusernameisavailable 5/12/2020 11:21am
5/12/2020 11:21am
Id be a bigger fan of e-start bikes if they also came with kickstarts!

I don't think id like to own an E-start only model. I just don't see the need for it.

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scott_nz 5/12/2020 11:35am
5/12/2020 11:35am
chump6784 wrote:
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my...
Back in 2001 my dad bought my brother and I a new kx125 each for the upcoming season. He paid $7000 aud each. I bought my wife a 2020 yz125 for Christmas and paid $9500. Not much of an increase in 19 years
fullfloater wrote:
$14k in 2001! He could have bought a house...
I owned a Kawi/Suzuki shop from 02-12. when we started in 2002 KX125's were 12995 NZD incl Tax, in 2008 when the NZD was strong they were $7995 on run out ($8495 normal retail) ,

YZ125's are $11200 here at the moment,
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Johnny Depp 5/12/2020 11:38am
5/12/2020 11:38am
Suzuki threads always deliver.

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TSCHAM101
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TSCHAM101 5/12/2020 11:46am
5/12/2020 11:46am
id buy a new bike every 2 years if they were 5-6k.. but instead its about every 4-6 years for me..
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biondo 5/12/2020 11:55am
5/12/2020 11:55am
rob162 wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If it wasn't for the fact that i got my yz250f for 6200 otd. Plus a hell...
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If it wasn't for the fact that i got my yz250f for 6200 otd. Plus a hell of a deal on some other stuff there and some freebies I was fully commit to buying a rm250 and maybe 450 with plans of making the 250 a practice bike the next year and new race bike and just rotate the practice bikes.
Hey Great Price!! I thought I got a good deal at 6700.00 for my 2020 250rmz OTD
California I think has more Tax ! Or maybe it’s the added dealer mark up ! They told me they were losing money 💰 at 6700.00
Or maybe it’s the Sunshine 🌞 Tax LoL!
Happy Riding! Love mine!
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kb228 5/12/2020 11:56am
5/12/2020 11:56am
Suzuki needs to just make a better product. Take the current bike, slap estart and better suspension on it and shed a few lbs then sell it for $6000 like they are now.
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RichieW13 5/12/2020 12:52pm
5/12/2020 12:52pm
GODZILLA wrote:
Quite a few Zook riders here already told us they bought a brand new RMZ for 6 grand.
Loftin79 wrote:
Yes, just bought my 2020 RMZ450 3 weeks ago for $6183 otd. I'll kickstart the bike for that price
Right now Langston Motorsports is listing:

2020 RM-Z450 for $5,999
2019 RM-Z450 for $6,249

Why is the 2019 more than the 2020?

https://www.langstonmotorsports.com/new-powersports-vehicles-for-sale-t…
Dirty Points 5/12/2020 1:07pm
5/12/2020 1:07pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 1:17pm
kb228 wrote:
Suzuki needs to just make a better product. Take the current bike, slap estart and better suspension on it and shed a few lbs then sell...
Suzuki needs to just make a better product. Take the current bike, slap estart and better suspension on it and shed a few lbs then sell it for $6000 like they are now.
Slap better suspension on? The 250 that can be had for $6k already comes with the same base suspension units as YZ-Fs, on which they are considered the best suspension in the industry -- And on which Chiz was qualifying for SX Mains this season with just shim and spring setup.
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biondo 5/12/2020 1:10pm
5/12/2020 1:10pm
GODZILLA wrote:
Quite a few Zook riders here already told us they bought a brand new RMZ for 6 grand.
Loftin79 wrote:
Yes, just bought my 2020 RMZ450 3 weeks ago for $6183 otd. I'll kickstart the bike for that price
RichieW13 wrote:
Right now Langston Motorsports is listing:

2020 RM-Z450 for $5,999
2019 RM-Z450 for $6,249

Why is the 2019 more than the 2020?

https://www.langstonmotorsports.com/new-powersports-vehicles-for-sale-t…
Hi I just called them ...Ronni sales guy said the 250rmz otd price with fees would be around $7,000.00
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Sharc 5/12/2020 1:23pm
5/12/2020 1:23pm Edited Date/Time 5/12/2020 1:25pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
E starts are great for convenience of course, and it makes some very technical rides much easier to get going again after a tip over or...
E starts are great for convenience of course, and it makes some very technical rides much easier to get going again after a tip over or stall. I also have an old kickstart Suzuki and it doesn't bother me because we have been kicking bikes since their inception, and it's no big deal for me to kick my bike to start it. I did run into a group of guys sitting around up in the hills on who were stranded because someone's battery died on their brand new bike. And considering you can't just jumpstart it and ride off, the E start does cause problems occasionally, but not enough to offset the convenience of it.

With that said, I do not believe E starts should be allowed in professional racing. It has changed the game completely as there are no penalties for making mistakes and falling/stalling anymore. Just pick the bike up and press a button and you are instantly back on the track again like magic! This has never been possible in professional racing and it has never been so easy to recover from a mistake. Crashing and stalling has lost championships to the consistent riders who keep it on two wheels....this does not apply anymore with the introduction of E starts.

And no, this is not like the evolution of 4" travel suspension to modern suspension. Suspension does not need to be kick started to get working again and back on the track. Suspension or other advancements do not cause you to go a lap down and waste half your energy trying to get going again. There is absolutely nothing in the evolution of bike technology that can compare to the advantage of E start in racing.
If you become stranded because a battery died - you have no business being on a dirt bike
Why can't you jump / bump start it ?
1
Black Diesel Bomber 5/12/2020 1:48pm
5/12/2020 1:48pm
Black Diesel Bomber wrote:
E starts are great for convenience of course, and it makes some very technical rides much easier to get going again after a tip over or...
E starts are great for convenience of course, and it makes some very technical rides much easier to get going again after a tip over or stall. I also have an old kickstart Suzuki and it doesn't bother me because we have been kicking bikes since their inception, and it's no big deal for me to kick my bike to start it. I did run into a group of guys sitting around up in the hills on who were stranded because someone's battery died on their brand new bike. And considering you can't just jumpstart it and ride off, the E start does cause problems occasionally, but not enough to offset the convenience of it.

With that said, I do not believe E starts should be allowed in professional racing. It has changed the game completely as there are no penalties for making mistakes and falling/stalling anymore. Just pick the bike up and press a button and you are instantly back on the track again like magic! This has never been possible in professional racing and it has never been so easy to recover from a mistake. Crashing and stalling has lost championships to the consistent riders who keep it on two wheels....this does not apply anymore with the introduction of E starts.

And no, this is not like the evolution of 4" travel suspension to modern suspension. Suspension does not need to be kick started to get working again and back on the track. Suspension or other advancements do not cause you to go a lap down and waste half your energy trying to get going again. There is absolutely nothing in the evolution of bike technology that can compare to the advantage of E start in racing.
Sharc wrote:
If you become stranded because a battery died - you have no business being on a dirt bike Why can't you jump / bump start it...
If you become stranded because a battery died - you have no business being on a dirt bike
Why can't you jump / bump start it ?
It had nothing to do with rider skill level, it was a brand new bike with a bad battery. Mechanical issue, not a rider who doesn't know how to ride issue.
Black Diesel Bomber 5/12/2020 1:58pm
5/12/2020 1:58pm
Sharc wrote:
If you become stranded because a battery died - you have no business being on a dirt bike Why can't you jump / bump start it...
If you become stranded because a battery died - you have no business being on a dirt bike
Why can't you jump / bump start it ?
and someone else can chime in, but a brand new bike will not run with a bad battery or no battery and this is why they were stranded. They were waiting on someone to drive several hours to get a new battery so the bike would run. Someone else will know why but I believe it has something to do with a fuel pump or something. Needs power to run the bike and bad batter or no battery = stranded until you get a new one in there
motomike894
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motomike894 5/12/2020 2:13pm
5/12/2020 2:13pm
You can get a electric bike started with a dead battery, least on a YZ and CRF you can I have seen it with my own eyes, they both just bump started their bikes.

Maybe a KTM or Husky has something different to stop that I dont know.

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