Can we all just agree...

shuggs
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shuggs 3/28/2020 3:10am
3/28/2020 3:10am Edited Date/Time 3/28/2020 3:11am
dimesandrhymes wrote:
its my personal opinion but I think RV2 is not getting enough respect in this thread.
This!!

The 250f year he and Townley went at it outdoors anyone???
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Looby321
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Looby321 3/28/2020 3:26am
3/28/2020 3:26am
I still think it’s comical when people think that riders of the 70’s and 80’s could hold a candle to the riders of today. Ya’ll are on crack.
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Thisusernameisavailable 3/28/2020 3:41am
3/28/2020 3:41am
CivBars wrote:
James has recently said that Eli is next level. Maybe ask him? lol
Tbf Ricky’s job as an announcer is to pump up the programme! Make it sound like it’s the best ever, greatest ever, nothing in this world has ever been better.

That said, I do think these new bikes are allowing the likes of Eli to go faster, easier.

Remember the bikes of Ricky’s & Janes were 14 years ago! With carbs!!

If Ricky & Janes were in their prime now, on current bikes, the result would still be the same.

Eli looks great & dominant outdoors- but he hasn’t had an opponent as strong as Ricky had yet.
Spagina767
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Spagina767 3/28/2020 4:30am
3/28/2020 4:30am
Everyone is so huge on bike technology but the bell curve has flattened a ton in the last 15 years. Yeah efi, mapping, etc but I guarantee those carbed factory 450’s in 06/07 didn’t bog. EFI or not, they ripped. Sound standards were lower, so they had better exhaust flow. Suspension really hasn’t changed THAT much. Yes it’s better but overall, not a massive change. The dude I deal with at a very, very reputable builder (who has scored national points, and has a brother who has won races 🤔) was giving me advice when I was looking for a KTM. He said the 164cs forks were SO TRRRIBLE, that the Showa’s on my 04 RM 250 were better without question. That was only a few years ago, on arguably one of the best bikes.

I watched high point and steel city in 06/07 live. I can’t say they were faster then, than now, but I can say that they were INCREDIBLE and the riders of today would not win by much, if they did.

Speaking of bell curves of rider advancement/ bike advancement, that’s how I feel about the best from 07-now, 13 years. Can you imagine the best from 94-07? THAT is when the sport progressed at an unreal rate. Wouldn’t even be a conversation.
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The Shop

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Indian_Dunes_4ever 3/28/2020 9:09am
3/28/2020 9:09am
Looby321 wrote:
I still think it’s comical when people think that riders of the 70’s and 80’s could hold a candle to the riders of today. Ya’ll are...
I still think it’s comical when people think that riders of the 70’s and 80’s could hold a candle to the riders of today. Ya’ll are on crack.
Fail...

2 strokes took more skill to ride fast. Took more balls to make the big jumps. 4 strokes...grandma can triple out of a corner.
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Spudnut
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Spudnut 3/28/2020 9:29am
3/28/2020 9:29am
I was 13 years old when I stood at the base of that ant hill and watched Carmichael yard sell off that Bastard in moto 2 at washougal

Dad and I decided on the way home that this season would be talked about for a long time

And what do you know, here we are...
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Harv379
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Harv379 3/28/2020 12:47pm
3/28/2020 12:47pm
RV 2007 Des Nations - Fastest any mans ever ridden a motorcycle
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OldPro277
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OldPro277 3/28/2020 1:22pm
3/28/2020 1:22pm
dimesandrhymes wrote:
its my personal opinion but I think RV2 is not getting enough respect in this thread.
shuggs wrote:
This!!

The 250f year he and Townley went at it outdoors anyone???
And remember Budds MXdN when he beat the best in the world on a 250F !! Didn't he have over a minute lead one moto ? realize it was just one race , but I definitely think he was on RC and Stewarts level.
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OldPro277
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OldPro277 3/28/2020 1:30pm
3/28/2020 1:30pm
zehn wrote:
AP7 next-level speed? WTH are you talking about
CivBars wrote:
lol Eli passes the torch to Aaron. Time will tell. Dig up this thread in a few years and prove me wrong. I've studied up on...
lol Eli passes the torch to Aaron. Time will tell. Dig up this thread in a few years and prove me wrong. I've studied up on his tech and whatever else (can't let all my secrets outWink ) enough to have the confidence to say that I'm all in on AP7 for the long haul.
Although Aaron is a good dude and fast as hell, I truly believe there's a much greater chance of him racing GNCC;s within the next few years than there is him dominating MX/SX ...

I also believe the torch will be passed to Cianciarulo. That kid's got the speed, just needs to stay off the ground a little
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Matt Fisher 3/28/2020 2:06pm
3/28/2020 2:06pm
Harv379 wrote:
RV 2007 Des Nations - Fastest any mans ever ridden a motorcycle
I was waiting for someone to bring this up. While Poto was phenominal, RC was quite ill that day. Doesn't take anything away from the 250F rocket, but it's good for conversation.
ShipLap
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ShipLap 3/28/2020 4:22pm
3/28/2020 4:22pm
davis224 wrote:
I'm still of the opinion that there is no faster way around the track than Eli in the first motos of 2015. But James and RC...
I'm still of the opinion that there is no faster way around the track than Eli in the first motos of 2015. But James and RC were still unreal in 2006, they were going as fast as the bikes would physically allow.
THIS ^^
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 3/28/2020 4:27pm
3/28/2020 4:27pm
mxracer666 wrote:
OK, NO disrespect towards AP7, but he's not at a superstar level. The elite level riders were (almost) all winners in their first year as pros
CivBars wrote:
Agreed, to an extent. I will say that given the right circumstances, AP7 will dominate every MX rider past, current, and future. (Coming from an Eli...
Agreed, to an extent. I will say that given the right circumstances, AP7 will dominate every MX rider past, current, and future. (Coming from an Eli fanboy) He has that X Factor that a lot of MX bred riders lack from riding groomed tracks their whole life. Aaron is a special dude. We're only talking US based riders. Throwing MXGP riders into the mix is a completely different dynamic.
AP is closer to Jimmy Neese, Broc Hepler, Grayson Goodman, Will Hahn, and Shae Bentley, at this point. Hardly next level.
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davis224
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davis224 3/28/2020 7:11pm
3/28/2020 7:11pm
dimesandrhymes wrote:
its my personal opinion but I think RV2 is not getting enough respect in this thread.
shuggs wrote:
This!!

The 250f year he and Townley went at it outdoors anyone???
OldPro277 wrote:
And remember Budds MXdN when he beat the best in the world on a 250F !! Didn't he have over a minute lead one moto...
And remember Budds MXdN when he beat the best in the world on a 250F !! Didn't he have over a minute lead one moto ? realize it was just one race , but I definitely think he was on RC and Stewarts level.
I don't remember it that well, but didn't the main competition get bad starts? Not downplaying that legendary ride, but Eli won one of those motos by a minute and a half over Dungey in his prime. RV's ride was heroic and legendary, but those 5 magic motos from Eli were just unreal.
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H4L
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H4L 3/28/2020 8:30pm
3/28/2020 8:30pm
davis224 wrote:
I don't remember it that well, but didn't the main competition get bad starts? Not downplaying that legendary ride, but Eli won one of those motos...
I don't remember it that well, but didn't the main competition get bad starts? Not downplaying that legendary ride, but Eli won one of those motos by a minute and a half over Dungey in his prime. RV's ride was heroic and legendary, but those 5 magic motos from Eli were just unreal.
Agree. The start of the 15 season is probably the fastest I’ve ever seen anybody ride a dirt bike in MX.
No disrespect to any of the greats mentioned already.
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reynardfan1
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reynardfan1 3/28/2020 8:42pm
3/28/2020 8:42pm
How often is Eli on???

James was always the fastest...always
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Crush
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Crush 3/29/2020 3:34am
3/29/2020 3:34am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2020 4:41am
I think James in 07SX was the best he ever was... but I also think RC outdoors in 07 was maybe peak. Nothing on the line but pride and he won every overall against a guy that everyone said is/was faster. Some of them weren't close either. Absolute MX machine.

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sende
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sende 3/29/2020 3:47am
3/29/2020 3:47am Edited Date/Time 3/29/2020 3:48am
I just watched that video the other day. At least it's one the most entertaining riding I've ever seen. If you all could just watch that video instead of arguing over semantics here. Man, this place sometimes.

Pit Row

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D_L118
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D_L118 3/29/2020 5:39am
3/29/2020 5:39am
TDeath21 wrote:
My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06...
My dad who has followed MX and SX since the early 70s says that was the fastest he’s ever seen two guys battling during that 06 and 07 season.

My personal memory only goes back to the mid 90s but it is also the fastest I’ve ever seen two guys battle it out. They truly were on a different level.

The only guys in my opinion that would have matched that level only on occasion are Villopoto, Eli, and Roczen on their very best days.
Don’ want to turn it into a us vs europe thing.
But maybe you should rewatch mxdn 06.
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D_L118
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D_L118 3/29/2020 5:41am
3/29/2020 5:41am
Man, 06-11’ish had the best looking gear. Except from fox. That thor and no fear gear looked so
good.
M-M
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M-M 3/29/2020 6:05am
3/29/2020 6:05am
chuckie108 wrote:
JS7 is the out right fastest dirt bike RIDER ever.
RC is the greatest dirt bike RACER ever.

FULL STOP
Wrong.

https://youtu.be/FnQhxuvCbWo

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toroP
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toroP 3/29/2020 8:29am
3/29/2020 8:29am
Clearly, people love to debate this, but it’s not measurable. The way things look are misleading And tracks
change dramatically from session to session, let alone year to year, era to era.
Often in SX, folks would exclaim about how fast James was, but times would show someone faster,
or James just .1 or less faster.
Or what about the Pourcel effect. We’ve seen that guy fly past Dungey, Canard, etc., but look like
he’s riding a site lap.
Speed isn’t measured by feelings.
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visser62
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visser62 3/29/2020 8:34am
3/29/2020 8:34am
Budds Creek '03
toroP
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toroP 3/29/2020 9:06am
3/29/2020 9:06am
m21racing
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m21racing 3/29/2020 9:22am
3/29/2020 9:22am
Spagina767 wrote:
Everyone is so huge on bike technology but the bell curve has flattened a ton in the last 15 years. Yeah efi, mapping, etc but I...
Everyone is so huge on bike technology but the bell curve has flattened a ton in the last 15 years. Yeah efi, mapping, etc but I guarantee those carbed factory 450’s in 06/07 didn’t bog. EFI or not, they ripped. Sound standards were lower, so they had better exhaust flow. Suspension really hasn’t changed THAT much. Yes it’s better but overall, not a massive change. The dude I deal with at a very, very reputable builder (who has scored national points, and has a brother who has won races 🤔) was giving me advice when I was looking for a KTM. He said the 164cs forks were SO TRRRIBLE, that the Showa’s on my 04 RM 250 were better without question. That was only a few years ago, on arguably one of the best bikes.

I watched high point and steel city in 06/07 live. I can’t say they were faster then, than now, but I can say that they were INCREDIBLE and the riders of today would not win by much, if they did.

Speaking of bell curves of rider advancement/ bike advancement, that’s how I feel about the best from 07-now, 13 years. Can you imagine the best from 94-07? THAT is when the sport progressed at an unreal rate. Wouldn’t even be a conversation.
Well said.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 3/29/2020 10:14am
3/29/2020 10:14am
davis224 wrote:
I don't remember it that well, but didn't the main competition get bad starts? Not downplaying that legendary ride, but Eli won one of those motos...
I don't remember it that well, but didn't the main competition get bad starts? Not downplaying that legendary ride, but Eli won one of those motos by a minute and a half over Dungey in his prime. RV's ride was heroic and legendary, but those 5 magic motos from Eli were just unreal.
H4L wrote:
Agree. The start of the 15 season is probably the fastest I’ve ever seen anybody ride a dirt bike in MX. No disrespect to any of...
Agree. The start of the 15 season is probably the fastest I’ve ever seen anybody ride a dirt bike in MX.
No disrespect to any of the greats mentioned already.
Roczen in 16 was just as fast.
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Momus
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Momus 3/29/2020 10:21am
3/29/2020 10:21am
CivBars wrote:
James has recently said that Eli is next level. Maybe ask him? lol
Yep. No one has ever gone faster on a motocross bike than Tomac.
Absolute gun rider on the fastest machines the sport has ever known.
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H4L
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H4L 3/29/2020 10:50am
3/29/2020 10:50am
TDeath21 wrote:
Roczen in 16 was just as fast.
He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.
mxb2
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mxb2 3/29/2020 11:08am
3/29/2020 11:08am
TDeath21 wrote:
Roczen in 16 was just as fast.
H4L wrote:
He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned...
He was pretty fast that yr.. It would have been cool to see them race head to head in 2015-2016, if the stars would have aligned just right.
IMHO ET was on another level in 2015 & it appeared he could have gone undefeated that yr.. I think he was winning races by a minute or more that year. Going off memory there were some Dungey podium interviews after the races where he said that he & KTM were searching for answers on how to beat him.
X2 and tomac wasnt healthy in 2016.
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Talisker
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Talisker 3/29/2020 11:11am
3/29/2020 11:11am
Man they were fast. When you take people who grew up riding 2 strokes this is what you get. They charged from the start of the race to the finish. Wide open on a 450!!!! Now they settle into a pace and decided to battle within the last 5 minutes if they can get a top 5 or podium.
My personal opinion, I hate the saying “we want to be more like NASCAR”. NASCAR is F ing boring. Follow the leader till the last couple of laps. Well look what we have now. Sounds similar.

On a side note, forgot Pingree called the nationals that year. When James had that first big get off , he said “ He’s as flexible as a Ukrainian gymnasts”!!!! Ha ha haaaaaaaa!!!!

Read a interview back in the day by DeCoster. Said Ricky would wear out the top of the carb throttle stop!!!!
Said he had never ever seen that before. That’s coming from the man himself!!!

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