Thoughts on Chiropractors?

turnip
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1/7/2020 11:27am
Drfletcher wrote:
You wouldn't ride the track with the front wheel misaligned so why go through life with your spine misaligned? Just like any profession, some are good...
You wouldn't ride the track with the front wheel misaligned so why go through life with your spine misaligned?

Just like any profession, some are good and some are bad. Unfortunately, I am finding more bad ones than good ones lately.
This will cover a few. We're trying to get away from the whole "alignment" thing. It was a bad way to describe something we thought we understood better.

The easiest explanation right now is to think of a lack of movement (fixation) in the joint. We don't really know why this happens but we do know it CAN, but doesn't always, cause pain. A manipulation (adjustment) to the joint can improve joint mechanics and decrease pain. This can happen in any joint throughout the body.

Where do you live, maybe I can point you in a better direction?
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turnip
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1/7/2020 11:29am
Back issues are not all that complicated. Stretch. Strengthen your core. Use good posture and form. People grossly under-appreciate the importance of stretching. That's mostly what...
Back issues are not all that complicated. Stretch. Strengthen your core. Use good posture and form.

People grossly under-appreciate the importance of stretching. That's mostly what a chiropractor is doing, followed by a loud crack to make you feel like they're really doing something more than stretching your muscles and tissues.

This book is a lot cheaper than a Chiropractor:
https://www.amazon.com/Foundation-Redefine-Your-Conquer-Confidence/dp/1…
So any and every chiro or PT had better recommend some type of good movement and exercise. Also, this book is a great example of some good low-level movement that is a great way to get moving after an injury or while going through some chronic pain. I know Chad Reed has seen Dr. Goodman before.
moto9
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1/7/2020 11:31am
I'm a believer.
I Got crushed during a hockey tournament, straight crosscheck to the lower back that had me laid out on the ice, I had to be carried off. I couldn't even sit up, or pick my legs up.
We had a Chiro on the team that worked on my back like 8 times, that and the hotel had a jacuzzi I used a few hours between games. I was able to play the next game, I was sore but I could play.
He kept working on my back between games and I was almost back to normal by the end of the tournament.

But by far the best Chiro experience was this guy in San Diego Ca, I wrecked my back free riding some big hucks out at palm av If anybody remembers that riding area? But he would place these super hot wet towels on your back for 15 to 20 min, then hook you up to the tens machine with the hot towels over the pads for 20 mim. then massage for 10 to 15min, then the full body adjustment.
I mean talk about feeling like 20 years younger, any back, muscle or joint issues I went straight back to him and he would say "I need to see you 5 times this week" by the end of the week I was usually 100%
Just like doctors, surgeons, mechanics, there are good ones and bad ones.
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sandtrack315
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1/7/2020 11:36am
Get a foam roller and see a physical therapist for massage and strengthening.
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The Shop

FWYT
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1/7/2020 11:40am
gt80rider wrote:
Grew up on the farm... local chiro was seriously on-point... it works for sure... but.. like anything, there are plenty of bad ones out there too...
Grew up on the farm... local chiro was seriously on-point... it works for sure... but.. like anything, there are plenty of bad ones out there too.......

my current day solution- YOGA....... once you get good at yoga, you can do everything the chiro does, but at home for free, and by yourself.......
Depending on what my body is doing, the chiro I go to is fabulous. I can kind of tell when it's an alignment issue or a muscle tweak or whatever and I'll go to the person that fixes the problem at hand the best. Yes, my chiro is great. I
It seems like I need his assistance about once a year.

Yoga . . . ABSOLUTELY!!!! Incredibly beneficial and a somewhat regular yoga practice keeps me out of the
chiro office.
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turnip
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1/7/2020 11:42am
50dippin wrote:
I get a kick out of people actually thinking their spine is "out of alignment" and cracking it will somehow put it back in place. If...
I get a kick out of people actually thinking their spine is "out of alignment" and cracking it will somehow put it back in place. If your spine isn't in the proper curvature it is from muscle imbalances, poor posture and improper movement(minus people with actual medical spine issues). Learning how to move properly and strengthening muscles that should keep you in the right place is what you need. While sometimes cracking your back feels good temporarily it really doesn't do anything to help long term.
And never let them aggressively, "adjust" your neck. This is a traumatic movement that puts a lot of pressure on one of the most sensitive spots on your entire body. Cases of vertebral artery dissection are becoming more prevalent due to new standard of looking for them, and chiro's are one of the main causes.
Hey man, I agree with the first half but the last half is outdated. Here is some research pointing to no link at all between the cervical artery dissection (CAD) and manipulation of the neck. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07853890.2019.1590627?fbcl…

Now, this is where research is tricky. I have an article that says there is NO risk. However, I know people who this has happened to. The answer is the risk is so low that we can' measure it.

Here is what I (and a bunch of people smarter than me) think is happening. CAD has already occurred at some point in this person's life. Symptoms are headache and neck pain. Doc doesn't do a good history and misses the other neurological symptoms that the patient doesn't know to tell you about like some dizziness or light-headedness. Finds something in the neck to adjust and happens to finish the tear off the already weakened artery.

Here is a quote: Vertebral Artery stretches 2.6-5% during manipulation, 11-13% during passive ROM (this is just moving your head through motion), and mechanically fails at 58-62% strain. Internal carotid artery was similar at 2% with CMT, 7% during passive ROM, and failure at 59%.

There is more stress on the artery during ROM than during the manipulation.

Definitely need more research to be able to talk about this better but it's not quite what the media presents.
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turnip
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1/7/2020 11:46am
Francis377 wrote:
If you’re in strong pain before going to the Chiro consider getting an XRay or MRI if you can . I was having my back “re-aligned”...
If you’re in strong pain before going to the Chiro consider getting an XRay or MRI if you can . I was having my back “re-aligned” many times for almost 2 years before finding out I had two ruptured discs and the Chiro only made it worse. After The MRI , I got a cortisone injection in the spine and did a lot of planking exercises, no issues since.
I'll also include the other x-ray training comment here.

We do have training in x-ray reading, BUT - they should be sent out to be overread by a radiologist. I'm not worried about them being better than me at THEIR job.

X-rays should always be taken in the case of trauma and MRI in cases of neurologic issues. From there, there may be cases where imaging is needed but the likelihood of it changing treatment is close to NIL.

In your case, chiro should have stopped treatment after 2-4 weeks of no improvement most likely. Spinal manipulations are not recommended for cases of disc injury.
1/7/2020 11:51am
My experience.

If your hydration and nutrition is bad Chiro adjustments will be of little benefit.

Additionally, if you consume alcohol and a regular basis - quitting alcohol, replace this bad behavior with high-quality nutrition will help you heal and get healthy from the inside out.



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1/7/2020 11:53am
moto0852 wrote:
I had some good...mostly bad experiences. Most do nothing. I may be tainted though. My dad was an M.D. growing up and he always bristled at...
I had some good...mostly bad experiences. Most do nothing. I may be tainted though. My dad was an M.D. growing up and he always bristled at the fact that most of them call themselves Doctors.
No offense to your dad (I don't know him and I'm assuming he is a good man), but most actual "doctors" do very little to help people other than bring them in and prescribe pills and send them on their way - or in the case of orthopedic surgeons recommend ___ fill in the blank joint replacement. Ya, they have more schooling than Chiropractors and are more educated in medical practice for sure. But I've had far better luck with chiropractors helping me than I have actual "doctors". I go to both doctors and a chiropractor. I see value in working with both, especially with a quality massage therapist at the chiropractor. The combination of deep tissue work, spine alignment, and some strength building exercises has really helped me out - much better than here pop this pill for the next 20 years. And then contrast that to an orthopedic surgeon that told me a needed total knee replacement.....4 years ago......and now I still have the same knee & doing just fine. Had a surgeon recently tell me I need hip replacement. Hip seems to be doing just fine now after getting a lot of work done at the Chiropractor combined with a massage therapist. I know there are some quack Chiropractors out there, but there's a hellava lot of quack Drs out there too.
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kkawboy14
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1/7/2020 11:57am
WFO wrote:
Does anyone use them on a regular basis? Do they help? My back is no where near in good shape but I work out and I'm...
Does anyone use them on a regular basis? Do they help?
My back is no where near in good shape but I work out and I'm not in much real pain (until I fall)

Best
Sitting at chiropractor right now! I’m not sure how anyone can function without one!
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1/7/2020 11:58am
Lazy mans bandaid. A good diet and intelligent workout plan will cure all. Unfortunately, lazy people will not do the work themselves.
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kkawboy14
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1/7/2020 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2020 12:01pm
Lazy mans bandaid. A good diet and intelligent workout plan will cure all. Unfortunately, lazy people will not do the work themselves.
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them!

Have another glass of water!

A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not to lazy.....to me!
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fourfourone
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1/7/2020 12:03pm
Lazy mans bandaid. A good diet and intelligent workout plan will cure all. Unfortunately, lazy people will not do the work themselves.
kkawboy14 wrote:
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them! Have another glass of water! A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not...
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them!

Have another glass of water!

A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not to lazy.....to me!
How can you comment that he cant afford a chiropractor? You have no idea.

The guys not 100% wrong. As we all have different situations but many back issues stem from a sedentary lifestyle.
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1/7/2020 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 1/7/2020 12:15pm
turnip wrote:
I get why MDs are testy about this. Fact is doctor is simply an educational status that is not limited the medical profession. PhD is a...
I get why MDs are testy about this. Fact is doctor is simply an educational status that is not limited the medical profession. PhD is a prime example - it's just an amount of work done in a subject. Plenty of professors in academia go by "Dr" because they've earned it. Physical Therapists now have a Doctorate degree too - they should be called Dr.

There may be some confusion so to clear it up, first visit: Hi, I'm Dr. Turnip, your chiropractor.
Funny thing is I don't think most practicing Medical Doctors really care what they are called.

If I'm dying, seriously ill or injured, I'm not going to rely on a chiropractor, physical therapist, pharmacist, or professor. I'm going to rely on and entrust a board certified medical doctor. No one is going to yell for a Physical Therapist or Professor if someone has fallen unconscious in an airport ("Hey, someone get me an English Lit Professor, stat!!). They're going to yell for a "Doctor" and the doctor that comes running better sure as shit be a board certified medical doctor. I think for that important distinction alone, they have earned the right to have that Dr salutation.

If other medical professionals who have earned an advanced degree want to call themselves Doctor, that's cool. It's just a bit overtly smug.
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1/7/2020 12:06pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them! Have another glass of water! A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not...
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them!

Have another glass of water!

A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not to lazy.....to me!
You’re right...I am apologize for being beneath you.

A chiropractor was able to convince profession motocrossers with no formal education to pay him a salary and his travel to attend races.

Why do NFL teams not allow their players to use chiropractics?
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fourfourone
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1/7/2020 12:09pm
Chiro: short term fix

Physical therapy: long term fix.
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1/7/2020 12:14pm
rbm33 wrote:
95% are quacks and dangerous, but if you can find one of the 5% they can be very beneficial.
This in my humble opinion based on 35 yrs use
MotoCoUSA
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1/7/2020 12:23pm
So I've had lower back issues starting 12 years ago from the Army doing dumbass air assault crap. Ive had x-rays with spinal medical doctors (whatever you call them) and 3 of them said you're good to go. Well, no doc im not good to go my back hurts every day of my life. I let it go for a while, probably too long. I went to the chiropractor finally 2 months ago and have been going repeatedly since. I would say my lower back is now in worse shape than it was before I started going if I'm honest.

I don't know where to go from here but I was not impressed with chiros at all. I plan to try and go get an MRI done here next month to hopefully figure it out. Im 32 and can barely get out of bed some mornings, and can barely move after riding every now and again. Good days, bad days, but its always there. Cant give up riding tho I love it too much!

I plan to look in to the yoga thing as well as Ive heard nothing but good things about it.

Everyone is different, this is just my experience.


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fourfourone
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1/7/2020 12:29pm
MotoCoUSA wrote:
So I've had lower back issues starting 12 years ago from the Army doing dumbass air assault crap. Ive had x-rays with spinal medical doctors (whatever...
So I've had lower back issues starting 12 years ago from the Army doing dumbass air assault crap. Ive had x-rays with spinal medical doctors (whatever you call them) and 3 of them said you're good to go. Well, no doc im not good to go my back hurts every day of my life. I let it go for a while, probably too long. I went to the chiropractor finally 2 months ago and have been going repeatedly since. I would say my lower back is now in worse shape than it was before I started going if I'm honest.

I don't know where to go from here but I was not impressed with chiros at all. I plan to try and go get an MRI done here next month to hopefully figure it out. Im 32 and can barely get out of bed some mornings, and can barely move after riding every now and again. Good days, bad days, but its always there. Cant give up riding tho I love it too much!

I plan to look in to the yoga thing as well as Ive heard nothing but good things about it.

Everyone is different, this is just my experience.


100% go to a good physical therapist. My issues were almost the same as yours.
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Gordon Liddy
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1/7/2020 12:37pm
slipdog wrote:
If you're ever in Houston... [embed][/embed]
If you're ever in Houston...

Fawk that!
GuyB
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1/7/2020 12:55pm
You’re right...I am apologize for being beneath you. A chiropractor was able to convince profession motocrossers with no formal education to pay him a salary and...
You’re right...I am apologize for being beneath you.

A chiropractor was able to convince profession motocrossers with no formal education to pay him a salary and his travel to attend races.

Why do NFL teams not allow their players to use chiropractics?
You were about 0-4 on your posts.
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moto0852
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1/7/2020 1:03pm
moto0852 wrote:
I had some good...mostly bad experiences. Most do nothing. I may be tainted though. My dad was an M.D. growing up and he always bristled at...
I had some good...mostly bad experiences. Most do nothing. I may be tainted though. My dad was an M.D. growing up and he always bristled at the fact that most of them call themselves Doctors.
TbonesPop wrote:
No offense to your dad (I don't know him and I'm assuming he is a good man), but most actual "doctors" do very little to help...
No offense to your dad (I don't know him and I'm assuming he is a good man), but most actual "doctors" do very little to help people other than bring them in and prescribe pills and send them on their way - or in the case of orthopedic surgeons recommend ___ fill in the blank joint replacement. Ya, they have more schooling than Chiropractors and are more educated in medical practice for sure. But I've had far better luck with chiropractors helping me than I have actual "doctors". I go to both doctors and a chiropractor. I see value in working with both, especially with a quality massage therapist at the chiropractor. The combination of deep tissue work, spine alignment, and some strength building exercises has really helped me out - much better than here pop this pill for the next 20 years. And then contrast that to an orthopedic surgeon that told me a needed total knee replacement.....4 years ago......and now I still have the same knee & doing just fine. Had a surgeon recently tell me I need hip replacement. Hip seems to be doing just fine now after getting a lot of work done at the Chiropractor combined with a massage therapist. I know there are some quack Chiropractors out there, but there's a hellava lot of quack Drs out there too.
No offense taken. You're right. I crushed three vertebrae on a double jump years ago. Was rushed to the hospital (couldn't walk under my own power) and saw two separate M.D.'s. Both asked the same two questions. 1. Did you hear an audible pop? 2. Did you feel any numbness or tingling? When I answered no to both they immediately just wrote me a prescription for pain meds and essentially said to "shake it off". Only later did we figure it out. (After alot of pain) so yeah...Real Docs are just as bad.

I think my Dads issue is his 12 years of schooling and then field training and internships vs. what a Chiro goes through.
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Drfletcher
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1/7/2020 1:05pm
Chiropractors get bashed like the Yamaha 450.
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Motoxdoc
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1/7/2020 1:18pm
Just like every other profession, some are better than others. Find a Chiro with lots of experience in dealing with aggressive athletes i.e. MXers, and they can change the rest of your life for the better. People who say chiros are quacks are buying into the 1950’s medical profession narrative and obviously speak from little to no experience. Many of the top athletes in this sport we love will tell you.
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Flatliner
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CA
1/7/2020 1:23pm
I’m personally a fan, a lower back adjustment if needed can certainly help.

I also enjoy heavy abdominal work, and once a week or so I use an inversion table.
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KAWI642
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1/7/2020 1:43pm
bull shit
Deja New
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1/7/2020 1:44pm
Had back problems for years and do both physio for long term and chiro. Sometimes the pain is so great only the chiro can help but then I got to physio.
I sit all day so need to strengthen my core with exercise and it helps a lot, but sometime just the smallest movement can put my back out and I can hardly walk due to the pain.
I use them but they are not a long term solution.
Just my 2c form my personal experience. What may work for me may not work for you.
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Deja New
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1/7/2020 1:48pm
moto0852 wrote:
I had some good...mostly bad experiences. Most do nothing. I may be tainted though. My dad was an M.D. growing up and he always bristled at...
I had some good...mostly bad experiences. Most do nothing. I may be tainted though. My dad was an M.D. growing up and he always bristled at the fact that most of them call themselves Doctors.
TbonesPop wrote:
No offense to your dad (I don't know him and I'm assuming he is a good man), but most actual "doctors" do very little to help...
No offense to your dad (I don't know him and I'm assuming he is a good man), but most actual "doctors" do very little to help people other than bring them in and prescribe pills and send them on their way - or in the case of orthopedic surgeons recommend ___ fill in the blank joint replacement. Ya, they have more schooling than Chiropractors and are more educated in medical practice for sure. But I've had far better luck with chiropractors helping me than I have actual "doctors". I go to both doctors and a chiropractor. I see value in working with both, especially with a quality massage therapist at the chiropractor. The combination of deep tissue work, spine alignment, and some strength building exercises has really helped me out - much better than here pop this pill for the next 20 years. And then contrast that to an orthopedic surgeon that told me a needed total knee replacement.....4 years ago......and now I still have the same knee & doing just fine. Had a surgeon recently tell me I need hip replacement. Hip seems to be doing just fine now after getting a lot of work done at the Chiropractor combined with a massage therapist. I know there are some quack Chiropractors out there, but there's a hellava lot of quack Drs out there too.
moto0852 wrote:
No offense taken. You're right. I crushed three vertebrae on a double jump years ago. Was rushed to the hospital (couldn't walk under my own power)...
No offense taken. You're right. I crushed three vertebrae on a double jump years ago. Was rushed to the hospital (couldn't walk under my own power) and saw two separate M.D.'s. Both asked the same two questions. 1. Did you hear an audible pop? 2. Did you feel any numbness or tingling? When I answered no to both they immediately just wrote me a prescription for pain meds and essentially said to "shake it off". Only later did we figure it out. (After alot of pain) so yeah...Real Docs are just as bad.

I think my Dads issue is his 12 years of schooling and then field training and internships vs. what a Chiro goes through.
Real docs can be just as bad I had a cat 5 shoulder ligament tear that should hav been operated on straight away they told me it was a cat 3 and sent me home with pain killers I now have to have elective surgery to fix it as it causes nothing but pain and trouble.
kkawboy14
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1/7/2020 1:59pm
Lazy mans bandaid. A good diet and intelligent workout plan will cure all. Unfortunately, lazy people will not do the work themselves.
kkawboy14 wrote:
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them! Have another glass of water! A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not...
You're right.....most people like yourself can’t afford them!

Have another glass of water!

A chiropractor travels with the Pros, they seem pretty well hydrated and not to lazy.....to me!
How can you comment that he cant afford a chiropractor? You have no idea. The guys not 100% wrong. As we all have different situations but...
How can you comment that he cant afford a chiropractor? You have no idea.

The guys not 100% wrong. As we all have different situations but many back issues stem from a sedentary lifestyle.
How many mxers are sedentary? Dude this isn’t an I.T. Forum!

I was just pushing his buttons about not affording it, and I have no idea who he is, so on that point you scored a “1”
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Jeff alessi
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Victorville, CA, USA
1/7/2020 2:02pm
Me and mike saw our chiropractor every day up in the high desert and once I stopped going in my back started hurting from being sore. So yes I highly recommend finding a good sports chiropractor that works with athletes.

A lot of the guys we race with will drive from Temecula and the inland empire to see Dr. Stine because of his ability to help athletes get the most out of themselves. When we would go to important races we would fly him in and I feel he even helped get rid of little things like arm pump and stress. You just need to find a place that works with athletes since we can take the intense adjustments unlike regular people that may be sensitive or scared of the process. Make sure they have the light or laser machine (u won’t feel anything) to break down scar tissue while your hooked up to the tense machine. The light/laser is good to move around on old injuries like my wrist that gets tight or stiff and the machines also have a pad (like a heating pad u lay on in bed) you can lay on. Laser you can’t feel, the tense units with pads you will feel shocking the muscle the higher you put the level.
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