What’s the best/safest helmet you can get, and are there any tests to prove it?

MxKing809
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Fantasy
12/14/2019 5:37am Edited Date/Time 12/14/2019 5:37am
So this thread stalled out......

JT and Ping: calling you both out.

Post the independent results or run the risk of us all assuming your product didn’t fare well - leading to the suppressed results.

Edit: Ping, know you don’t work for TLD, but loyal to them and have vocalized support.
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msp332
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12/14/2019 1:13pm Edited Date/Time 12/14/2019 1:17pm
Drop-Bear wrote:
Really? Pretty sure they'd get a new one each race. You on the other hand?
Tuna wrote:
I know an Airoh sponsored rider. Full 2 page spread of him in their latest catalogue. He’d wear that helmet till the straps fell off😂
Drop-Bear wrote:
Good for him. My point was that even though the rusting bracket problem is a known Issue with several helmets, they still pass the Snell safety...
Good for him.

My point was that even though the rusting bracket problem is a known Issue with several helmets, they still pass the Snell safety standards.


I wear a Kali Shiver, and just for the record, the tech was Invented by an Aussie from WA.
Airoh helmets aren't Snell certified. None of the helmets you mentioned are.
Going back to your previous post- "Profit before people" - Snell is a nonprofit organization.
Please read some basic, readily available information about Snell before posting obvious misinformation.
And FYI, your Kali helmet isn't even ECE certified. Free tip for a longer life - pull your head out of the sand.
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Drop-Bear
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12/14/2019 2:03pm
Tuna wrote:
I know an Airoh sponsored rider. Full 2 page spread of him in their latest catalogue. He’d wear that helmet till the straps fell off😂
Drop-Bear wrote:
Good for him. My point was that even though the rusting bracket problem is a known Issue with several helmets, they still pass the Snell safety...
Good for him.

My point was that even though the rusting bracket problem is a known Issue with several helmets, they still pass the Snell safety standards.


I wear a Kali Shiver, and just for the record, the tech was Invented by an Aussie from WA.
msp332 wrote:
Airoh helmets aren't Snell certified. None of the helmets you mentioned are. Going back to your previous post- "Profit before people" - Snell is a [i]nonprofit[/i]...
Airoh helmets aren't Snell certified. None of the helmets you mentioned are.
Going back to your previous post- "Profit before people" - Snell is a nonprofit organization.
Please read some basic, readily available information about Snell before posting obvious misinformation.
And FYI, your Kali helmet isn't even ECE certified. Free tip for a longer life - pull your head out of the sand.
LOL. Noted Wink
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dpingree101
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12/15/2019 2:41pm
Lots of bullshit and marketing in this space, which is scary. TLD just spent another 30k buying Every helmet on the market to be tested by...
Lots of bullshit and marketing in this space, which is scary. TLD just spent another 30k buying Every helmet on the market to be tested by a third party testing company in LA. I’m doing my best to get these results posted. The last test showed the SE4, Bell Flex 9 and Fox’s high end helmet as the best three and very close in numbers. The stunning part, for me, was some of the “premium” brands who scored very low.
CASH476 wrote:
Ping "TLD just spent another 30k buying Every helmet on the market to be tested by a third party testing company in LA" Also Ping "The...
Ping "TLD just spent another 30k buying Every helmet on the market to be tested by a third party testing company in LA"

Also Ping "The guy calling me out is a FLY/WPS rep, and, in all fairness, their newest helmet wasn't out when the test I'm referencing was done. A new test was just conducted and I'm awaiting those results."

It's a little bit rich calling out bullshit and marketing while misleading everyone about which helmets had actually been tested on behalf of TLD who support your whiskey throttle show. Saying you've seen the results but can't publish them is also just marketing bullshit.
Hey, asshat, I told you I'm the one trying to get them published! Trust me, I would have announced them two years ago if they had let me. As per usual, there are political entanglements. I don't have a vested interest in TLD and this isn't the Whiskey Throtte Show, so calm your tits. I just want the info out there so people can make informed decisions.
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The Shop

Bearuno
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12/15/2019 3:44pm
Tuna wrote:
I know an Airoh sponsored rider. Full 2 page spread of him in their latest catalogue. He’d wear that helmet till the straps fell off😂
I'd guess it's the bloke whose Wife (who's recently had a baby) said in the biography of him that he never asks for new things / just keeps on using them while they are still working well and in good condition. Who just doesn't expect freebies all the time, despite his fame and titles. A reflection on a bloke that grew up not being a pampered mini star / not from a monied background.....
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susejXm
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12/15/2019 6:07pm
Tuna wrote:
I know an Airoh sponsored rider. Full 2 page spread of him in their latest catalogue. He’d wear that helmet till the straps fell off😂
Bearuno wrote:
I'd guess it's the bloke whose Wife (who's recently had a baby) said in the biography of him that he never asks for new things /...
I'd guess it's the bloke whose Wife (who's recently had a baby) said in the biography of him that he never asks for new things / just keeps on using them while they are still working well and in good condition. Who just doesn't expect freebies all the time, despite his fame and titles. A reflection on a bloke that grew up not being a pampered mini star / not from a monied background.....
I like him before he had his fancy vaneers done!
Tuna
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12/16/2019 3:32am
Tuna wrote:
I know an Airoh sponsored rider. Full 2 page spread of him in their latest catalogue. He’d wear that helmet till the straps fell off😂
Bearuno wrote:
I'd guess it's the bloke whose Wife (who's recently had a baby) said in the biography of him that he never asks for new things /...
I'd guess it's the bloke whose Wife (who's recently had a baby) said in the biography of him that he never asks for new things / just keeps on using them while they are still working well and in good condition. Who just doesn't expect freebies all the time, despite his fame and titles. A reflection on a bloke that grew up not being a pampered mini star / not from a monied background.....
Different rider but similar philosophy. He’s just a fucking pack rat who likes to wear the same gloves with holes in them falling apart at the seams😂
BobPA
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12/16/2019 6:40am
Tuna wrote:
I know an Airoh sponsored rider. Full 2 page spread of him in their latest catalogue. He’d wear that helmet till the straps fell off😂
Drop-Bear wrote:
Good for him. My point was that even though the rusting bracket problem is a known Issue with several helmets, they still pass the Snell safety...
Good for him.

My point was that even though the rusting bracket problem is a known Issue with several helmets, they still pass the Snell safety standards.


I wear a Kali Shiver, and just for the record, the tech was Invented by an Aussie from WA.
msp332 wrote:
Airoh helmets aren't Snell certified. None of the helmets you mentioned are. Going back to your previous post- "Profit before people" - Snell is a [i]nonprofit[/i]...
Airoh helmets aren't Snell certified. None of the helmets you mentioned are.
Going back to your previous post- "Profit before people" - Snell is a nonprofit organization.
Please read some basic, readily available information about Snell before posting obvious misinformation.
And FYI, your Kali helmet isn't even ECE certified. Free tip for a longer life - pull your head out of the sand.
How do you know sand is not better than EPS? No one will publish their test results, so we are just left to guess.

It is comical how childish the MX community is. All I see are "insiders" pulling the "I know something you don't know" card. Congrats bro's I hope you're still enjoying a middle school lifestyle.

I wear a Bell moto 9, solid white. It fits my melon well and matches any set of gear ever created.
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zippytech
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12/16/2019 6:55am
So after 5 pages, do we have a clear winner and did BABSTER#976 buy it yet?
12/16/2019 7:01am
Haha I’m even more confused now 😂 so I just got what my gut told me to get, shoei vfx-wr flame on😝
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zippytech
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12/16/2019 7:11am
I have a shoei from 97 that I still use. they are great.
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12/16/2019 7:15am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2019 7:16am
zippytech wrote:
I have a shoei from 97 that I still use. they are great.
I just hope it’s not on Ping’s hot list 🤪
Kenny Lingus
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12/16/2019 7:33am
This reminds me of the local news. If you have this in your house get rid of it now because it's killing you. Tune in tonight at 11pm to find out what is.
Johnny Depp
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12/16/2019 8:20am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2019 8:24am
Good easy to watch video that answers many of the questions posed in this thread, such as what studies have been done. [embed][/embed]
Good easy to watch video that answers many of the questions posed in this thread, such as what studies have been done.

For those too lazy to watch, here's a summary:

Helmet testing standards are extremely outdated and therefore don't address the latest innovations making them an incomplete source when looking for a safe helmet.

Latest updates:
D.O.T. 1988
ECE 1999
Snell 2010

The world's largest study on motorcycle safety was the COST 327 dating back to 1996 and it brought the issue of rotational injuries being 60% of accidents vs. linear 30% (3:48 on the video) and it recommended to drop the puncture standard for shells as they didn't allow enough flex and were rare.

To date no standards have addressed the newer variable density liners.

Standards are different than tests and while many independent tests are done, few are revealed, apparently in an attempt to use the information for competitive advantage?
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Mr. Afterbar
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12/16/2019 9:06am
Haha I’m even more confused now 😂 so I just got what my gut told me to get, shoei vfx-wr flame on😝
Good choice. These threads end up people fighting about their favorite brand, most of which have no clue what they're talking about. Can't go wrong with a quality Japanese company that ONLY BUILDS HELMETS.
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Mr. Afterbar
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12/16/2019 9:12am
zippytech wrote:
I have a shoei from 97 that I still use. they are great.
You probably know this, but helmets have a shelf life! That one has exceeded it. Haha
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zippytech
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12/16/2019 9:20am
You probably know this, but helmets have a shelf life! That one has exceeded it. Haha
Yea, I know. I have a newer bell maybe 2 years old, but I always seem to grab the old shoei. Even with it's age it still is probably twice the helmet that any of my previous helmets ever was new.
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Buzzard167
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12/16/2019 9:48am
Yo Ping,

Just make a burner account and post them results bro!
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Natester551v
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12/16/2019 3:50pm
O&GDriller wrote:
As a professional accident analyst/investigator I've always found it comical seeing so many jump on the "new" 6D type helmet technology without ANY scientific evidence supporting...
As a professional accident analyst/investigator I've always found it comical seeing so many jump on the "new" 6D type helmet technology without ANY scientific evidence supporting their "improved" protection effectiveness. Some non-technical guys sit around drinking adult beverages and draw up a new helmet design on a bar napkin. They then get someone to manufacture them and charge outrageous sums for their "newfound protection" As someone who deals with this stuff for a living the unsubstantiated claims by these manufacturers is nothing short of criminal. The consumers who drank/drink their Kool Aid by buying this unproven technology are buying insurance policies based upon some marketing guys.

Please note, I'm not trolling or trying to start shit with this post. I'm a degreed engineer specializing in qualitative and quantitative failure analysis and I've searched long and hard for a true "unbiased, technical scientific study/analysis" on this new found anti-rotational helmet design. My research indicates the technology was "created/invented" by some marketing guys. I'll also mention they seem to have succeeded as they've convinced
a lot of people that they need to throw away perfectly fine helmets and buy one of THEIR new, "technologically advanced" helmets and if you don't you should feel guilty because they we don't care about our brains.

This thread has too many armchair scientists commenting on that to which they know nothing....
The NFL picked 6D out of many possible companies. Is that worth anything ?
Not sure what it means...I'm sure the NFL wants to reduce concussions, but theyve made some pretty stunning decisions in covering things up (think: RJ Reynolds- "smoking doesn't cause cancer" level cover-ups).

The NFL should be viewed with a very suspicious eye.

Everyone (especially those with a financial interest at stake) has bias. Furthermore, personal or anecdotal evidence is not science. OG Driller is right....
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Timo_2824
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12/16/2019 5:05pm
Buzzard167 wrote:
Yo Ping,

Just make a burner account and post them results bro!
Would have been better before he said he had the results and wanted to post them...
TeamGreen
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12/16/2019 6:17pm Edited Date/Time 12/16/2019 6:21pm
I've been wearing the SE4 since it came out.
Since then, I've personally "tested" 2 of them very forcefully.
My hi-speed get-off in the desert in 2017 used up 80% of the multi-density EPS foam system.
My low speed "Side POW!" was in 2018 during the Vital 2019 450 shootout. It was a "thud" to the side of my head.
Both times I couldn't believe how hard the hit was and, yet, how "un-injured" I was. Is that even a word..."un-injured"?

I've got 35 years in aerospace composites. I've read my fair share of technical papers, white papers and test reports during my professional career. All of that comes into play when I look at the new standards that ACT Lab uses when testing the helmets I'm wearing. Much of that info was passed around a few years back when the various brands were developing these new helmets with more tech focused on low-speed & rotational protection.

My personal experience, knowledge and understanding of helmets has me in full agreement with both Ping and JT$. Personally, I've had the priveledge of wearing the last 2 generations of Airoh, Bell, Fly & the latest and greatest A-Star. All seemed like EXCLELLENT products. I know Brad Waldron at Kali and the brain-trust at 6D...BOTH...fully committed to developing products that improve safety WAY beyond the archaic stds used by DOT, Snell & others. So, those brands get a shout-out, too.
But, none of that really matters.
Because...
No matter what helmet you buy...
No matter what helmet you think is best...
Do a lot of homework & get your keyboard goin' and find the studies.
A -LOT- has changed over the last 20 years and a -LOT- has been learned...even from the bicycle side.

Get the best helmet you can with the most information you can find.
Because, you’re worth it.

When and if you have one of those nasty falls, and I truly hope you don't...but, if you do...
I simply hope you come out of it "just fine" from doing your own homework and "due diligence".
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captmoto
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12/16/2019 10:17pm
6d ATR-2 helmet owner here. I took a pretty good digger in Colorado earlier this year. I hit and rolled hard down the landing of a jump. I took my helmet back to 6d to have it checked. Apparently while rolling I smacked the back of my head hard enough to make some dents in the EPS liner. I have cosmetic damage to the front and both side of my helmet so the signs of impact at the back surprised me. I don't think I would have got off as easy in any of my old tech helmets. I don't think you can go wrong in any of the latest high end modern technology helmets. I happened to get the best fit and feel with the 6d vs. Bell, Fly and Shoei. I'm a Fly gear guy and would have gone with that if I had the fit, feel and comfort I got in the 6d.
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MBR
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12/16/2019 11:18pm
I visited Arai Europe while on my way to MXON. Here is video where Eelco shows and explains the idea behind Arai design (round shape, hard shell, soft inside). Skip to 6.16 if you just want to see why ECE or other certificates don't necessary mean that the helmet is safe.
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danman
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12/17/2019 4:45am
I too am in the market for a new lid. Waiting til January though so I have something to do this winter. Unfortunately, I don't have a dealership close where I can try different helmets on, so I have to drive 3 hours and make a day out of it.
Ping, send me the results and I'll post them. You're off the hook then! LOL.
Markee
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12/17/2019 6:50am
Well said team green
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mkeeping
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12/17/2019 8:45am
Has a helmet manufacturer that has paid for "independent" testing ever had their helmet not end up being the best?

I'm assuming that when you are paying for testing you have provide the testing parameters so it isn't really independent.

I would assume this is the reason you don't see other manufacturers named in test results. You would not want the other manufacturers to call out your test design as being biased and thereby nullifying the test results that you spent a large amount of money to get.

I'm not saying that the testing isn't important nor am I saying that safer helmets aren't a result. It's just hard to consider a test that is paid for by a manufacturer as truly independent.
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McG194
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12/17/2019 10:04am
Hey, asshat, I told you I'm the one trying to get them published! Trust me, I would have announced them two years ago if they had...
Hey, asshat, I told you I'm the one trying to get them published! Trust me, I would have announced them two years ago if they had let me. As per usual, there are political entanglements. I don't have a vested interest in TLD and this isn't the Whiskey Throtte Show, so calm your tits. I just want the info out there so people can make informed decisions.
It's not a Vital thread until someone drops an asshat on someone else.

Well played Ping. Well played.
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TeamGreen
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12/17/2019 3:09pm
Hey, asshat, I told you I'm the one trying to get them published! Trust me, I would have announced them two years ago if they had...
Hey, asshat, I told you I'm the one trying to get them published! Trust me, I would have announced them two years ago if they had let me. As per usual, there are political entanglements. I don't have a vested interest in TLD and this isn't the Whiskey Throtte Show, so calm your tits. I just want the info out there so people can make informed decisions.
McG194 wrote:
It's not a Vital thread until someone drops an asshat on someone else.

Well played Ping. Well played.
I dunno...

I might have to go with "calm your tits" as the new validating Vital phrase.

Grinning
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3/3/2021 2:36pm
MxKing809 wrote:
So this thread stalled out...... JT and Ping: calling you both out. Post the independent results or run the risk of us all assuming your product...
So this thread stalled out......

JT and Ping: calling you both out.

Post the independent results or run the risk of us all assuming your product didn’t fare well - leading to the suppressed results.

Edit: Ping, know you don’t work for TLD, but loyal to them and have vocalized support.
Did Ping ever post those results?
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Falcon
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3/3/2021 2:54pm
The reason we don't have "proper" scientific testing for helmets is that there's no control group to test against. In other words, we don't kill 100+ people with hammers to the head so we can measure exactly how many Gs will kill a person. However, we can make some deductions and assumptions from data, and learn to reduce the forces applied to the head in a crash. I'm all for wearing the best helmet you can afford and replacing it after a crash.

BTW, I recently replaced my Arai with a TLD SE4 Carbon. It's an incredible, light, feature-laden helmet that just oozes with coolness. It is not even close in comfort level to the Arai, however. Unsure Sad
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