Alex Martin's Penalty Yesterday

Chris_Cooksey
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7/21/2019 10:34pm
He only got a penalty for going ridiculously fast. Slow down and no penalty. Pretty simple.
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Bearuno
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7/21/2019 10:48pm Edited Date/Time 7/21/2019 11:52pm
I've no problem with the penalty given to him.

All I could think of when he went off track and was above everyone was "Don't Do It Troll !".

As in, for a split second I thought he might jump back down onto the track from above Woohoo . That, could have been a bit fearful.

Just for interest, does anyone know where he got back onto the track? Looked like he would have had to go through some banners, wherever he re-gained the track. Just interested on where he found his way back on. Nowhere (that I could see) looked easy.
chump6784
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7/21/2019 11:57pm
TXDirt wrote:
I like some of the thinking in this thread. If it’s muddy cheating is ok. This whole idea to re-enter where it’s “safe”, or as long...
I like some of the thinking in this thread. If it’s muddy cheating is ok.

This whole idea to re-enter where it’s “safe”, or as long as you don’t gain a position then track cutting is ok, is ridiculous.

The “safest” thing would have been for him to re-enter exactly where he went off. Going full throttle outside of the course is extremely dangerous.

Rule should be to re-enter where you went off. And if you don’t then you are docked 1 lap. Simple as that. Then the blatant track cutting will stop.

That was a total joke on Saturday with all the track cutting.
So let me get this straight. In your opinion A Mart should have jammed on the brakes, done a u-turn on the side of the track, rode back against the flow of traffic and entered exactly where he went off the track, all the while there are 35 other bikes flying past him? If that is what you mean then I am glad you are not making the rules
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chump6784
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7/22/2019 12:03am
At riders briefing at the MX Nationals in Australia at the second last round they brought up track cutting as it was the kind of track that it could happen pretty easily on. The official talking said that if you go off the track you need to slow right down, basically to first gear until you are back on the track. He said that if riders didn't follow that and abused the situation he would bring back the rule where if you go off the track you must come to a complete stop before making your way back to the track.

In my opinion A Mart should have backed off and basically idled in the gear he was in until he was back on the track. He charged the first corner too hard and ran wide to avoid crashing. By holding it wide open around the outside of the track he nearly negated any disadvantage caused by going off the track
3

The Shop

7/22/2019 12:21am
i think he was lucky to only get a 1 place penalty,
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Motofinne
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7/22/2019 12:41am
Did Alves ever get a penalty? He actually jumped through the banners in moto 1 and almost caused a huge crash. It was freaking dangerous and should've resulted in a big penalty in my opinion.
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tcallahan707
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7/22/2019 12:45am
His choice to exit stage left was a good one. His choice to accelerate to the point of scrubbing a crest was a bad one. He's not only lucky he wasn't penalized more, but that there was not any equipment on that road.

As stated earlier, you don't get to blow the first corner and show up 13 seconds later in the same position. Slow down, turn back on where Baggett is, then pin it.
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689
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7/22/2019 1:57am
Bearuno wrote:
I've no problem with the penalty given to him. All I could think of when he went off track and was above everyone was "Don't Do...
I've no problem with the penalty given to him.

All I could think of when he went off track and was above everyone was "Don't Do It Troll !".

As in, for a split second I thought he might jump back down onto the track from above Woohoo . That, could have been a bit fearful.

Just for interest, does anyone know where he got back onto the track? Looked like he would have had to go through some banners, wherever he re-gained the track. Just interested on where he found his way back on. Nowhere (that I could see) looked easy.
Just before the take off of the double/table top. You can see him rolling it.
7/22/2019 2:33am
Penalty dart board.. can’t argue with it.
I don’t know why they didn’t just make it a 2 position penalty to match last weeks penalty for AC?
Motofinne
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7/22/2019 2:47am
Motofinne wrote:
Did Alves ever get a penalty? He actually jumped through the banners in moto 1 and almost caused a huge crash. It was freaking dangerous and...
Did Alves ever get a penalty? He actually jumped through the banners in moto 1 and almost caused a huge crash. It was freaking dangerous and should've resulted in a big penalty in my opinion.
It seems like he didn't get a penalty. That is absolutely crazy.
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Bearuno
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7/22/2019 3:35am
689 wrote:
Just before the take off of the double/table top. You can see him rolling it.
Thanks!

I just checked the video again of it. That was quite some distance he was off the track (pretty close to his brother Jeremy's off track excursion on the Hill a while back), and, I could see a few others following him through, back onto the track. With those others, I assume it was near impossible to get back onto the track before his / their re-entry point.

Docked one position - I think he came back on somewhere around 6th. Well, he was at least in around 6th the first lap.

PS : I'm not 'anti', in any way towards the Martins, if some here want to accuse / misconstrue me of that - I've followed them , well, since I followed / admired their Dad, John Martin, on the Can Am Offroad Team. Good people, I reckon!
TXDirt
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7/22/2019 4:53am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2019 5:38am
TXDirt wrote:
I like some of the thinking in this thread. If it’s muddy cheating is ok. This whole idea to re-enter where it’s “safe”, or as long...
I like some of the thinking in this thread. If it’s muddy cheating is ok.

This whole idea to re-enter where it’s “safe”, or as long as you don’t gain a position then track cutting is ok, is ridiculous.

The “safest” thing would have been for him to re-enter exactly where he went off. Going full throttle outside of the course is extremely dangerous.

Rule should be to re-enter where you went off. And if you don’t then you are docked 1 lap. Simple as that. Then the blatant track cutting will stop.

That was a total joke on Saturday with all the track cutting.
chump6784 wrote:
So let me get this straight. In your opinion A Mart should have jammed on the brakes, done a u-turn on the side of the track...
So let me get this straight. In your opinion A Mart should have jammed on the brakes, done a u-turn on the side of the track, rode back against the flow of traffic and entered exactly where he went off the track, all the while there are 35 other bikes flying past him? If that is what you mean then I am glad you are not making the rules
Yes exactly that’s what he should have done or be docked one lap. How would it have been against the flow of traffic if he was off the track already? Everyone who went off the track should have stopped, made a u turn and got back on track exactly where they went off. Guys go flying off the track at full speed now because they don’t have to stop. There is no incentive to slowing down. Or rather no punishment if you don’t. If guys knew the rule was to go back and re-enter track exactly where they went off they they would be slowing down way more. It would be far far safer, and equally a lot more fair if they had to re-enter where they went off. This going off track at full speed and then racing around outside the designated racetrack is both dangerous and unfair to those who are not cutting the track.
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Mx286
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7/22/2019 7:17am
I was there for the regional race last month. I was pushed off the track on the inside of the first turn. Went up the hill in the water truck lane and immediately back on the track gaining no positions and got docked 5 spots. Off the track for about 2-3 seconds.

I feel like if it was anyone else besides Martin it would of been a little more harsh. Kind of hard to dock the hometown boy.



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FuzzyLogic
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7/22/2019 8:07am
This was REAL easy for them to handout. Dock a position, but have no affect on the overall.....or the championship. One of these years there is going to be an incident that does affect the championship and there are going to be one pissed off party and one that feels like they got lucky.
tingo
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7/22/2019 8:18am Edited Date/Time 7/22/2019 9:06am
Motofinne wrote:
Did Alves ever get a penalty? He actually jumped through the banners in moto 1 and almost caused a huge crash. It was freaking dangerous and...
Did Alves ever get a penalty? He actually jumped through the banners in moto 1 and almost caused a huge crash. It was freaking dangerous and should've resulted in a big penalty in my opinion.
Motofinne wrote:
It seems like he didn't get a penalty. That is absolutely crazy.
Big time. That was sketchy as hell. AC got heaps of shit for his "improper" re-entry, and crickets on this? It must not have happened directly in front of the ref. Or maybe it did but it was determined that Alves didn't "intend" to go super-squirrel, so they gave him a pass.

As for AMart (who I'm fan of), I'm of the thought that he should have reentered well before he did - the rules state as much. Didn't Kyle Peters (and others) do the same thing in the first moto? A one position penalty is a gift. They all should have slowed - or even stopped if they had to - and reentered at the end of the first corner after the field passed. Yeah, that sucks to do, but it SHOULD be the penalty for blowing the corner. BUT why in the hell would ANY rider do that when they can safely cruise up the access road, reenter in 4th, and get docked one position? Hmmmm, 4th place (5th if you apply the penalty) on the first lap after blowing the corner or 40th? Easy call, and if I were AMart I'd do it every time. Hell, they could have really throw the rulebook at him and hit him with a 5 position penalty and it would still be a reward.

EDITing to add: With as many riders as we saw take the access road, I wonder if it was communicated during the rider's meeting that following the road WAS the appropriate way to re-enter the track if you blew the first corner. AMart being the only one penalized for going WFO makes a lot more sense that way, but he still literally came out well ahead by receiving only a one-position penalty.
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HD1200
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7/22/2019 8:19am
Racer111 wrote:
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line...
So you’re saying he should have re-entered the track here by leaping down the hill and over the banners directly in to 39 other riders line?

You have to be the smartest guy in the world. Whistling Whistling
SPYGUY wrote:
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2019/07/21/361741/s1200_Screenshot_2019_07_21_AMA_Motocross_Spring_Creek_2019_250_Moto_2_YouTube.jpg[/img]
Yeah, how about before the banners, genius.


Racer111 wrote:
Hmmm, he’s going about 50-60mph on what might as well be ice and he needs to make a fairly hard right on said ice where he...
Hmmm, he’s going about 50-60mph on what might as well be ice and he needs to make a fairly hard right on said ice where he can’t see what’s behind where is entering. My guess is that you’re still not getting it.
You're just making excuses for A-Mart. He could've easily slowed down and reentered the track before the banners but instead, on a greasy, muddy, slick track decided to gas it hard down the side.
1
dickjackson170
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7/22/2019 8:19am
Here we go again. Why don't you baby dolls start your own series? You can cancel the race when it rains, hire your hippie youtuber for commentary and review every potential penalty. You'll have official race results 9 days later. Oh, and don't ever stand over someone you're pissed at and tell them you'll kill them. Cause you're obviously serious and there's gonna be a homicide.
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Sir
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7/22/2019 9:01am
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring. It might also benefit the spectators by allowing them to be closer to the action, you could also tie advertising banners to the fencing as well to keep the sponsors happy. What a shame a way to line the track like that doesn't exist in this day and age. Oh well maybe someday someone will come up with something appropriate.


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mark_swart
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7/22/2019 9:11am
500 Mike wrote:
All I know is MX Sports or whom ever hands out these penalties, better get a handle on these off track excursions as they seem to...
All I know is MX Sports or whom ever hands out these penalties, better get a handle on these off track excursions as they seem to be getting exponentially worse each week. Yesterday was ridiculous!!!
I agree with you. We've seen this a lot this year for some reason, and then even in this moto AC and I think Cooper went all the way down one of the hills off the side of the track early on and then just came back on. I'm beginning to think we need to go back to black and white -- go back on where you came off. Letting the guys come back on at their discretion is setting a new standard that is impossible to consistently enforce. It's not really fair to the other 39 guys who made the turn or the obstacle for one rider to run off the track and then rejoin the race without incurring any penalty. This isn't really against AC or Martin whatsoever, I have no problem with either one.
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Mr. Afterbar
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7/22/2019 9:28am
Sir wrote:
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring...
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring. It might also benefit the spectators by allowing them to be closer to the action, you could also tie advertising banners to the fencing as well to keep the sponsors happy. What a shame a way to line the track like that doesn't exist in this day and age. Oh well maybe someday someone will come up with something appropriate.


Are you seriously suggesting this is how tracks should be lined? The whole series would have been shut down long ago due to insurance companies and dead spectators. The speeds and and jumps are much bigger now than then.
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Max D
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7/22/2019 9:30am
I’m old now and disabled, but when I did race back in the day anytime I ever went off track I lost positions. How in the hell do these guys keep gaining spots?! Lol! Anyways, it’s racing. I just wouldn’t want to be the officials making the calls, that’s for sure.
1
Bearuno
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7/22/2019 10:28am
Sir wrote:
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring...
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring. It might also benefit the spectators by allowing them to be closer to the action, you could also tie advertising banners to the fencing as well to keep the sponsors happy. What a shame a way to line the track like that doesn't exist in this day and age. Oh well maybe someday someone will come up with something appropriate.


Are you seriously suggesting this is how tracks should be lined? The whole series would have been shut down long ago due to insurance companies and...
Are you seriously suggesting this is how tracks should be lined? The whole series would have been shut down long ago due to insurance companies and dead spectators. The speeds and and jumps are much bigger now than then.
That's a French Chalk surface track.

And, it's a 500 GP.

That's Brad Lackey, if I'm not mistaken.

So, you have mind blowing, hill peak, blind jumps, the sort of things that would give most people a heart attack at just the thought of doing, with factory 500s with serious horsepower, on a near tractionless surface, with 40 minute plus 2 lap motos. And, 2 of them, to totally challenge the riders.

Things were pretty full on, decades ago. But, yes, bikes did spend a bit more time with their tyres on the ground, tearing the track apart. I'd say the sport of Motocross, might just be better off with a bit less 'airtime'.

As for the fences, well, potential litigation risks, and, the likes of Luongo and his penchant for lucrative signage, have pretty much got rid of the wood post fences. Though, they were pretty effective at grabbing ahold of errant bikes.
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TT Special
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Charlotte, NC, USA
7/23/2019 12:04pm
Sir wrote:
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring...
If only the type of fencing in the picture below was invented it might help prevent a lot of these off track excursions that keep occurring. It might also benefit the spectators by allowing them to be closer to the action, you could also tie advertising banners to the fencing as well to keep the sponsors happy. What a shame a way to line the track like that doesn't exist in this day and age. Oh well maybe someday someone will come up with something appropriate.


that's some nice dirt on that trackDry
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Last Braaap
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7/23/2019 12:46pm Edited Date/Time 7/23/2019 12:47pm
THAT'S IT! I'M DONE WITH THIS SPORT AND ITS WHINING FANS!!!

For a change i am making my own sport. Bannercross...Easy stuff really.
It has same start as mx with 40 guys on dirtbikes on a gate. Yet the track is quite different. It is 1,5 meter (around 5 vomiting squirels per firecracker - for imperial system enthusiasts) wide corridor that twists and turns and completes full lap with occasional jumps into or thru banner... The corridor is fully lined by banners minimum height is 2,5 meter (around 3 wheezing horny buffalos - for imperial system purists). There is no need for spectators (you can't spectate even if you would want to) the TV coverage will pay for itself with so much banner space. Any occasional cutting corners or exceeding track limits & damaging banners that way will be punished with a fine that racer has to pay in cash to the nearest police patrol in the current lap or else gets black flagged.

I am expecting your applications soon.

Sincerely
George
C.E.O. of YMS (Yeet Motor Sports)

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