Time for 350s instead of 450s in SX?

fullysicmate 7/4/2019 1:24pm
7/4/2019 1:24pm
They got rid of 500's because they were to powerful, 450's are more powerful than 500's
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TymeMoto
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TymeMoto 7/4/2019 1:39pm
7/4/2019 1:39pm
yz133rider wrote:
I honestly think tomac and the other top guys would be even faster on 250s then they are on 450s.
Completely depends on riding style. Guys like Roczen would struggle while guys like Barcia would thrive.
TbonesPop 7/4/2019 1:49pm
7/4/2019 1:49pm
Its driven by the consumers ultimately. 450s for us old vet riders is great. Sure I can be faster on a 250F and a 350F, but I have to wring the crap out of it in the process, which beats up the valve train and thus requires more maintenance. For most vet riders, lugging a 450 means it gets you around the track easier and is super reliable, incredibly reliable. I want power when I need it and I want reliability. I couldn't give 2 shits about winning races or being the fastest guy on the track anymore. I have nothing to prove. I'm just doing it for fun at this point.

As for Pros, 350s could replace 450s in SX and we wouldn't miss a beat. In the outdoors, no way. 350s can be competitive (250Fs can be too depending on the rider) but they won't win consistently enough to win a championship. Too much of a disadvantage power-wise.
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peltier626
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peltier626 7/4/2019 7:38pm
7/4/2019 7:38pm
TbonesPop wrote:
Its driven by the consumers ultimately. 450s for us old vet riders is great. Sure I can be faster on a 250F and a 350F, but...
Its driven by the consumers ultimately. 450s for us old vet riders is great. Sure I can be faster on a 250F and a 350F, but I have to wring the crap out of it in the process, which beats up the valve train and thus requires more maintenance. For most vet riders, lugging a 450 means it gets you around the track easier and is super reliable, incredibly reliable. I want power when I need it and I want reliability. I couldn't give 2 shits about winning races or being the fastest guy on the track anymore. I have nothing to prove. I'm just doing it for fun at this point.

As for Pros, 350s could replace 450s in SX and we wouldn't miss a beat. In the outdoors, no way. 350s can be competitive (250Fs can be too depending on the rider) but they won't win consistently enough to win a championship. Too much of a disadvantage power-wise.
I'm pretty sure an Italian rider by the name of Antonio Cairoli has proven that theory wrong. Did you see prado at red bud or villo at buds creek.
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Frank Tuesday 7/4/2019 9:23pm
7/4/2019 9:23pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they...
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they would be using them. Especially on a track like Southwick which is known for requiring wide open throttle more than other tracks resulting in bikes running out of gas in the past.

If we want to start slowing down the Pro's, and have unrestricted weekend warriors going faster around a track, we might as well have them race 125's. Why is everyone so worried about tracks holding up? That is just not important IMO in todays world of track prep and building capabilities where they can re work the track 5 times a day if they wanted to.

Even if restrictions on engines was to go forward, the most logical way would be #1, an exhaust restrictor would be easy to verify and allow them to not run high strung expensive smaller bores turning 13k rpm+. I am not for it though. Soon electrics will make all IC engines obsolete anyway with respect to lap times.
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power to make a pass. The 450 would gain time on the straights, and the 250 would catch back up in the corners. 450 takes the fast line in the corner and 250 is stuck behind or taking the slow line. Unless the 250 got the holeshot, they'd struggle to get the win.

The bike which makes the win more likely is always a better choice, and that isn't a 250 when the competition is on 450s.
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burn1986
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burn1986 7/4/2019 10:00pm
7/4/2019 10:00pm Edited Date/Time 7/4/2019 10:02pm
I think the 350 displacement is s good idea, but it won’t happen if the OEMs don’t want it. There is no autonomy for consumers to make a rule change. Even if it makes sense. There’s a whole lot of things I would like to see in AMA Pro SX MX Racing, but these are pipe dreams. There will never be any rule changes that the OEMs don’t want.
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Crush 7/5/2019 2:43am
7/5/2019 2:43am
fullysicmate wrote:
They got rid of 500's because they were to powerful, 450's are more powerful than 500's
Yep, better suspended and brakes and easier to rider faster too.
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JD83
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JD83 7/5/2019 3:50am
7/5/2019 3:50am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2019 3:50am
Sorry, but why you guys are deciding what a Pro should ride. Everyone can choose what he wants (the KTM guys pretty easy). But even the others. Trust me, it´s no problem to go out testing an reduce the power of a 450. If you want less power, you get less power. The laptimes will show if its better or not.
And trust me, Factory-Bikes don´t have as much more power as you think...
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aees
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aees 7/5/2019 4:04am
7/5/2019 4:04am
TbonesPop wrote:
Its driven by the consumers ultimately. 450s for us old vet riders is great. Sure I can be faster on a 250F and a 350F, but...
Its driven by the consumers ultimately. 450s for us old vet riders is great. Sure I can be faster on a 250F and a 350F, but I have to wring the crap out of it in the process, which beats up the valve train and thus requires more maintenance. For most vet riders, lugging a 450 means it gets you around the track easier and is super reliable, incredibly reliable. I want power when I need it and I want reliability. I couldn't give 2 shits about winning races or being the fastest guy on the track anymore. I have nothing to prove. I'm just doing it for fun at this point.

As for Pros, 350s could replace 450s in SX and we wouldn't miss a beat. In the outdoors, no way. 350s can be competitive (250Fs can be too depending on the rider) but they won't win consistently enough to win a championship. Too much of a disadvantage power-wise.
peltier626 wrote:
I'm pretty sure an Italian rider by the name of Antonio Cairoli has proven that theory wrong. Did you see prado at red bud or villo...
I'm pretty sure an Italian rider by the name of Antonio Cairoli has proven that theory wrong. Did you see prado at red bud or villo at buds creek.
Cairoli also switched back to 450 from 350 because he gave up to much in the starts and the advantage weight/light feel of 350 vs 450 was to small with the 2016 chassis released.

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aees
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aees 7/5/2019 4:08am
7/5/2019 4:08am
burn1986 wrote:
I think the 350 displacement is s good idea, but it won’t happen if the OEMs don’t want it. There is no autonomy for consumers to...
I think the 350 displacement is s good idea, but it won’t happen if the OEMs don’t want it. There is no autonomy for consumers to make a rule change. Even if it makes sense. There’s a whole lot of things I would like to see in AMA Pro SX MX Racing, but these are pipe dreams. There will never be any rule changes that the OEMs don’t want.
A 350 on close to 14.000 rpm is more difficult to ride than a 450 at 9000. Both will generate 60hp depending on rider preference.

Again, make restrictions on power (HP+torque), not CC.
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fullysicmate 7/5/2019 4:11am
7/5/2019 4:11am Edited Date/Time 7/5/2019 4:13am
Johnny Depp wrote:
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they...
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they would be using them. Especially on a track like Southwick which is known for requiring wide open throttle more than other tracks resulting in bikes running out of gas in the past.

If we want to start slowing down the Pro's, and have unrestricted weekend warriors going faster around a track, we might as well have them race 125's. Why is everyone so worried about tracks holding up? That is just not important IMO in todays world of track prep and building capabilities where they can re work the track 5 times a day if they wanted to.

Even if restrictions on engines was to go forward, the most logical way would be #1, an exhaust restrictor would be easy to verify and allow them to not run high strung expensive smaller bores turning 13k rpm+. I am not for it though. Soon electrics will make all IC engines obsolete anyway with respect to lap times.
Frank Tuesday wrote:
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power...
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power to make a pass. The 450 would gain time on the straights, and the 250 would catch back up in the corners. 450 takes the fast line in the corner and 250 is stuck behind or taking the slow line. Unless the 250 got the holeshot, they'd struggle to get the win.

The bike which makes the win more likely is always a better choice, and that isn't a 250 when the competition is on 450s.
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and it is the guy with the skill/balls to hold the power on that wins. Not the faster bike.

Far too many 250f/125 wins in mxdn and outright wins in enduro on 125s to rule it out.
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aees 7/5/2019 4:26am
7/5/2019 4:26am
Johnny Depp wrote:
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they...
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they would be using them. Especially on a track like Southwick which is known for requiring wide open throttle more than other tracks resulting in bikes running out of gas in the past.

If we want to start slowing down the Pro's, and have unrestricted weekend warriors going faster around a track, we might as well have them race 125's. Why is everyone so worried about tracks holding up? That is just not important IMO in todays world of track prep and building capabilities where they can re work the track 5 times a day if they wanted to.

Even if restrictions on engines was to go forward, the most logical way would be #1, an exhaust restrictor would be easy to verify and allow them to not run high strung expensive smaller bores turning 13k rpm+. I am not for it though. Soon electrics will make all IC engines obsolete anyway with respect to lap times.
Frank Tuesday wrote:
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power...
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power to make a pass. The 450 would gain time on the straights, and the 250 would catch back up in the corners. 450 takes the fast line in the corner and 250 is stuck behind or taking the slow line. Unless the 250 got the holeshot, they'd struggle to get the win.

The bike which makes the win more likely is always a better choice, and that isn't a 250 when the competition is on 450s.
fullysicmate wrote:
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and...
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and it is the guy with the skill/balls to hold the power on that wins. Not the faster bike.

Far too many 250f/125 wins in mxdn and outright wins in enduro on 125s to rule it out.
The issue is that in a field where not even Tomac can go from 10 to top 3 with bad starts riding a 450, you think a 250 would to better?

Same in 250 class, riders outside topp 5-8 will not win or barely go top 3.

Cairoli even chose to go with a paddel tire (soft start strait) on a hard packed track because starts are so important to be able to win, and you then think a rider on 250 would be able to do it?

Even if you are able to catch riders, you will have have no chance passing on a 250.

Prado is a killer starter, and one of fastest guys in MX so not fare to use him as benchmark. He gave up 2 sec per lap to coldenhoff on 450, and was passed by 2 450s in the other race.
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kb228 7/5/2019 4:33am
7/5/2019 4:33am
Lets make 4 mfgs scrap the money they put into developing top of the line motorcycles and develop a new 350cc bike so they can still have basically the same power and torque anyway on a factory team. Yea sounds like a great solution.
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fullysicmate 7/5/2019 4:48am
7/5/2019 4:48am
Frank Tuesday wrote:
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power...
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power to make a pass. The 450 would gain time on the straights, and the 250 would catch back up in the corners. 450 takes the fast line in the corner and 250 is stuck behind or taking the slow line. Unless the 250 got the holeshot, they'd struggle to get the win.

The bike which makes the win more likely is always a better choice, and that isn't a 250 when the competition is on 450s.
fullysicmate wrote:
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and...
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and it is the guy with the skill/balls to hold the power on that wins. Not the faster bike.

Far too many 250f/125 wins in mxdn and outright wins in enduro on 125s to rule it out.
aees wrote:
The issue is that in a field where not even Tomac can go from 10 to top 3 with bad starts riding a 450, you think...
The issue is that in a field where not even Tomac can go from 10 to top 3 with bad starts riding a 450, you think a 250 would to better?

Same in 250 class, riders outside topp 5-8 will not win or barely go top 3.

Cairoli even chose to go with a paddel tire (soft start strait) on a hard packed track because starts are so important to be able to win, and you then think a rider on 250 would be able to do it?

Even if you are able to catch riders, you will have have no chance passing on a 250.

Prado is a killer starter, and one of fastest guys in MX so not fare to use him as benchmark. He gave up 2 sec per lap to coldenhoff on 450, and was passed by 2 450s in the other race.
Prado is no herlings, it’s an argument that could go on forever but that’s just my opinion. I’m sure many would disagree though. When the best riders are at their peak they are on the bigger bike, I would like to see the difference with them at their peak on the smaller version...
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aees 7/5/2019 4:55am
7/5/2019 4:55am
fullysicmate wrote:
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and...
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and it is the guy with the skill/balls to hold the power on that wins. Not the faster bike.

Far too many 250f/125 wins in mxdn and outright wins in enduro on 125s to rule it out.
aees wrote:
The issue is that in a field where not even Tomac can go from 10 to top 3 with bad starts riding a 450, you think...
The issue is that in a field where not even Tomac can go from 10 to top 3 with bad starts riding a 450, you think a 250 would to better?

Same in 250 class, riders outside topp 5-8 will not win or barely go top 3.

Cairoli even chose to go with a paddel tire (soft start strait) on a hard packed track because starts are so important to be able to win, and you then think a rider on 250 would be able to do it?

Even if you are able to catch riders, you will have have no chance passing on a 250.

Prado is a killer starter, and one of fastest guys in MX so not fare to use him as benchmark. He gave up 2 sec per lap to coldenhoff on 450, and was passed by 2 450s in the other race.
fullysicmate wrote:
Prado is no herlings, it’s an argument that could go on forever but that’s just my opinion. I’m sure many would disagree though. When the best...
Prado is no herlings, it’s an argument that could go on forever but that’s just my opinion. I’m sure many would disagree though. When the best riders are at their peak they are on the bigger bike, I would like to see the difference with them at their peak on the smaller version...
Agree it could be argued forever.

In how many races does 250 get faster lap times then 450 (in races, not practice)? You have riders on 250 with long experience and well tuned bike setup and they hardly ever post faster times then 450 riders. Always 1-2 sec difference or at the best same times. And then 450 goes after 250 with if anything worse track conditions.
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Thor34103
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Thor34103 7/6/2019 11:19am
7/6/2019 11:19am
dimetime wrote:
Here we go again with the MJWs wanting to fix what they percieve as a problem. Leave it fucking alone. Also, you all are high as...
Here we go again with the MJWs wanting to fix what they percieve as a problem. Leave it fucking alone.

Also, you all are high as fuck if you think there's ANY chance that the Japanese manufacturers are going to develop an entirely new bike for this.

I haven't gone through any statisics but there's been some pretty serious injuries on 250s too. Ferrandis comes immediately to mind. So quit trying to fix what isn't broke for at best dunious reasons and virtually no safety inprovement.
77Moto wrote:
They don't have to do a thing except make a cylinder, head withj parts, piston, and ring and some gaskets to sleeve down a 450. That...
They don't have to do a thing except make a cylinder, head withj parts, piston, and ring and some gaskets to sleeve down a 450.

That said,

The 250 class should be a stock OEM NON PREMIER class. With 2 and 4 strokes. Not a works bike class with Single cylinder F1 engines with rev limiters set at 19,000 that have a lifespan of 30 mins+1.875 and a hope and prayer it makes it.

I mean, F1 engines have to last 2 full races now. That's better reliablity than MX and SX 250F engines.
And it's cheaper and why F1 made that rule. Cost.

In the 250 class, You can be sponsored by whoever, but you aren't running their stuff, except grips, handlebars and tires and tubes.
Just about like Ponca and LL's stock classes. Joe Blow local pro on a 250 can have the same bike as the factory paid dude. Now it is skill, setup etc. Can't blame the bike.

If McElrath or whoever can't beat Joe Blow, Oh well.


Get techs that know what the hell they are actually looking at also.

The 450 class should be 2 and 4 stroke any displacement as well, aftermarket readily available affordable parts only premier class.
No A kit super expensive shit most non factory dudes can't afford.

Lets be honest here, 99.9% of non pro practice riders and Enthusiasts that never even race can build a better bike with better stuff than a 10th place privateer because they have a decent job AND they can't use or even need that stuff except to say they did.

If the suspension companies want to sell A kit stuff, sell it to me. But it's not going to be on the racetrack. You can run the stickers.

Nothing racing in Nascar, Indy Car or F1 is being sold to the public, and that doesn't stop car sales, shock sales, air filters, tires or anything else. Thats what stickers do. Advertise. You can buy Pirellis, but not buying Pirelli F1 slicks at Tire Rack.

99% of the people driving a Mercedes have no idea who Lewis Hamiton is. So saying that racing sells stuff to people is bullshit.

Look at other motorsports where the Spec classes are filled with participants. And the engines are sealed.











A lot of great points especially it being within the realm of possibility the OEMs could make 350s without complete development project from the ground up. Your post got me thinking about some of the big bore aftermarket companies and they capability to deliver a 350 cylinder and crank combination.

The goal is to reduce the gyroscopic forces at play from a 450 and best way to do that is to reduce bore and stroke. 450s need the great outdoors to roam freely as Malcolm Smith intended but are overkill in SX.

In the existing 250 class I like Formula One's rule of an engine lasting two races. A simple rule change like that would have an instant cost reducing influence plus level the playing field for privateers.
VetMX.com
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VetMX.com 7/6/2019 11:25am
7/6/2019 11:25am
How about small bike/ big bike class?
0-250cc 2 or 4 stroke for small and 251 to run what you brung for the big bike class, 2 stroke or 4 stroke.

I would love to see some 500 cc 2 strokes in a modern chassis run again or even a 700cc Maico out there.
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bd
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bd 7/6/2019 2:10pm
7/6/2019 2:10pm
Keep the classes as is. Why the fuck do you want to put R&D pressure on manufactures and riders when some are trying to keep up. Use your fucking noodle. 450 = Privateer dream bike.
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bd 7/6/2019 2:12pm
7/6/2019 2:12pm Edited Date/Time 7/6/2019 2:13pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they...
With today's ability to use Lit Pro to measure every aspect of a lap time, if Pro riders found an advantage in a smaller engine they would be using them. Especially on a track like Southwick which is known for requiring wide open throttle more than other tracks resulting in bikes running out of gas in the past.

If we want to start slowing down the Pro's, and have unrestricted weekend warriors going faster around a track, we might as well have them race 125's. Why is everyone so worried about tracks holding up? That is just not important IMO in todays world of track prep and building capabilities where they can re work the track 5 times a day if they wanted to.

Even if restrictions on engines was to go forward, the most logical way would be #1, an exhaust restrictor would be easy to verify and allow them to not run high strung expensive smaller bores turning 13k rpm+. I am not for it though. Soon electrics will make all IC engines obsolete anyway with respect to lap times.
Frank Tuesday wrote:
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power...
Even if a 250 could do a faster lap time, riders would struggle to pass a rider on a 450 because they would lack the power to make a pass. The 450 would gain time on the straights, and the 250 would catch back up in the corners. 450 takes the fast line in the corner and 250 is stuck behind or taking the slow line. Unless the 250 got the holeshot, they'd struggle to get the win.

The bike which makes the win more likely is always a better choice, and that isn't a 250 when the competition is on 450s.
fullysicmate wrote:
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and...
No, I disagree with all of this. Even in flat track better riders win on 250s. Add the rough terrain that you find in mx and it is the guy with the skill/balls to hold the power on that wins. Not the faster bike.

Far too many 250f/125 wins in mxdn and outright wins in enduro on 125s to rule it out.
How many times has a tiddler won the MXDN Moto? Lamson and RV?
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level 7/6/2019 3:31pm
7/6/2019 3:31pm
They both have there ups and downs. The 250 is fun to go wide open and you can get similar lap times as we have seen.
The 450 you just ride little different but me personally I found it fun to blip the throttle at local tracks and clear jumps I had a hard time on with a 250.
I love the 450 personally. You don’t have to go fast if don’t want to.
I really do enjoy that 250f though. Damn that’s a fun bike. Best motocross bike ever made.
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Thor34103 7/10/2019 11:31am
7/10/2019 11:31am Edited Date/Time 7/10/2019 11:32am
bd wrote:
Keep the classes as is. Why the fuck do you want to put R&D pressure on manufactures and riders when some are trying to keep up...
Keep the classes as is. Why the fuck do you want to put R&D pressure on manufactures and riders when some are trying to keep up. Use your fucking noodle. 450 = Privateer dream bike.
Did you vote in the poll? Is a poll R&D pressure on manufacturers and riders? 450s are for sure dream bikes for privateers but aren't dream bikes when they chase you down and pummel you. This poll is about what is best for SX not the general public.
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holeshot413 7/12/2019 8:23pm
7/12/2019 8:23pm
450/open any stroke any gas
250/250 any stroke any gas
bd
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bd 7/12/2019 9:47pm
7/12/2019 9:47pm
bd wrote:
Keep the classes as is. Why the fuck do you want to put R&D pressure on manufactures and riders when some are trying to keep up...
Keep the classes as is. Why the fuck do you want to put R&D pressure on manufactures and riders when some are trying to keep up. Use your fucking noodle. 450 = Privateer dream bike.
Thor34103 wrote:
Did you vote in the poll? Is a poll R&D pressure on manufacturers and riders? 450s are for sure dream bikes for privateers but aren't dream...
Did you vote in the poll? Is a poll R&D pressure on manufacturers and riders? 450s are for sure dream bikes for privateers but aren't dream bikes when they chase you down and pummel you. This poll is about what is best for SX not the general public.
So other displacements don’t chase riders after a crash? Again, the 450 is the best bike for a privateer as you can put few mods on it and be competitive.
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Thor34103 7/15/2019 11:34am
7/15/2019 11:34am
bd wrote:
So other displacements don’t chase riders after a crash? Again, the 450 is the best bike for a privateer as you can put few mods on...
So other displacements don’t chase riders after a crash? Again, the 450 is the best bike for a privateer as you can put few mods on it and be competitive.
Smaller displacements have less gyroscopic effect so would be less inclined to mow a rider down. The poll wasn't what is the best bike for a privateer in SX to be competitive on.
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willie838 7/15/2019 1:34pm
7/15/2019 1:34pm
yz133rider wrote:
I honestly think tomac and the other top guys would be even faster on 250s then they are on 450s.
TymeMoto wrote:
Completely depends on riding style. Guys like Roczen would struggle while guys like Barcia would thrive.
Lol OK. I'll roczen would struggle to make a dirt bike go fast? In any motor format? Seriously?
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early 7/15/2019 1:40pm
7/15/2019 1:40pm
250 premier class for SX.
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peltier626 7/15/2019 4:53pm
7/15/2019 4:53pm
early wrote:
250 premier class for SX.
Exactly. 150cc entry level, 250cc premier class
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Thor34103 7/15/2019 5:54pm
7/15/2019 5:54pm
early wrote:
250 premier class for SX.
peltier626 wrote:
Exactly. 150cc entry level, 250cc premier class
150cc excludes everyone but Honda unless you are including two strokes. Easier route would be 250 suspension and exhaust mod only class and either a 250 or 350 premier class. Biggest issue with premier 250 class is expense but adopting the F1 rule motors must last two events would be a step to reduce costs and completely eliminate the 350 vs 450 question for SX.








peltier626
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peltier626 7/16/2019 6:59am
7/16/2019 6:59am
early wrote:
250 premier class for SX.
peltier626 wrote:
Exactly. 150cc entry level, 250cc premier class
Thor34103 wrote:
150cc excludes everyone but Honda unless you are including two strokes. Easier route would be 250 suspension and exhaust mod only class and either a 250...
150cc excludes everyone but Honda unless you are including two strokes. Easier route would be 250 suspension and exhaust mod only class and either a 250 or 350 premier class. Biggest issue with premier 250 class is expense but adopting the F1 rule motors must last two events would be a step to reduce costs and completely eliminate the 350 vs 450 question for SX.








CC's Any stroke. 150cc and 250cc.
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Thor34103 7/16/2019 12:20pm
7/16/2019 12:20pm
peltier626 wrote:
CC's Any stroke. 150cc and 250cc.
I like it in principle but it is probably too radical of a step. Easier first step is getting rid of the 450 tractors inside stadiums. The more I think about it the more I like the idea someone else suggested of a 250 premier class and a 250 suspension and exhaust mods only class for SX. No changes in outdoors but SX could use a refresh. For SX there should always be a supporting event in SX like KTM Juniors, 125 class or a 300cc two stroke class.

Not sure how the F1 rule of engines lasting two races would go over with the factory teams, Geico Honda, Star Racing, TLD, etc but this is something that could be looked at for the outdoors as well. PC engines get swapped out after practice at the Nationals and fresh motor installed for the two motos that day. Wouldn't a two race rule for engines save PC and others half of their engine budgets? It would have to shorten the gap between what privateers are using and the top teams are using,

Post a reply to: Time for 350s instead of 450s in SX?