Christian Craig Contaminated Supplements

endurox
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6/19/2019 8:13am
And again why is the FIM involved in our SX series?
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EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 8:13am
endurox wrote:
And again why is the FIM involved in our SX series?
SUPERCROSS WARS
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wolf918
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6/19/2019 8:25am
omalley wrote:
The quickest way to solve this would be for the teams to say in October or November that they aren’t showing up to Anaheim 1 unless...
The quickest way to solve this would be for the teams to say in October or November that they aren’t showing up to Anaheim 1 unless WADA is out and/or completely revamped.
No teams=no show
No show=no fans
No fans=no $$$.
Come on, that’s never going to happen. The teams need to come together and meet with FELD and the new FIM brass to figure out some kind of penalty/fine structure that fits SX.
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hamncheeze
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6/19/2019 8:56am
OK every time there is a doping case in MX it seems as though there is a lot of confusion about the role of WADA, and a lot of people just love to scream up and down about WADA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Anti-Doping_Agency

WADA sets the code, and works with the IOC, national anti-doping agencies, and the various athletic federations around the world. They are not the villain here in the case of Christian Craig. Having been involved in cycling for a long time in Canada, I've been tested a few times and I've also acted as a chaperone to a drug tester collecting samples at an event.

Here is roughly how it went for Christian. At Daytona he would have been contacted by the tester. The initiation of the testing would have been co-ordinated by the FIM. They would have a drug tester from the national anti-doping in this case USADA, show up at the race to do the testing on their behalf. The sample would be collected and sealed and sent off to the USADA/WADA accredited lab. Once the positive was found, notification would have went to the FIM with copies to USADA and WADA. It would then be the FIM who notifies Christian of his positive test. IN THIS CASE THEY NOTIFIED HIM 10 MONTHS LATER.

Again, the FIM is the reason that anti-doping in SX is a total shitshow. It's not WADA's fault. They only provide the framework.
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The Shop

Premix
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6/19/2019 8:57am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2019 8:58am
The main argument I often see is it's not going to help turn X rider into a champion, I agree with that. What it does allow is for X rider (mainly ones on the backside of their careers) to continue to compete at a higher level than what one would be on without it (ie; keep their ride)

No doubt these guys are grinding to the point that supplementation is necessary to help them maintain and recover. Taking non FDA approved supplements without a 3rd part independent testing them is absolutely foolish.

Tickle and Craig both know where it came from. Don't believe for a second their camps don't.

I highly doubt Craig will be suspended for any substantial amount of time. While I understand it's now the riders discretion to reveal, I find it very strange he happens to choose now to put this out there 5 months later (when he was first notified) after what has been a horrendous season no doubt.

I admire the guy from coming back from paralysis, raising two little ones, and continuing to race professionally.

The time has come for full disclosure with rider injuries, clearly defined drug testing protocols, and a new 3rd party independent testing and review panel.
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Ted722
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6/19/2019 9:03am
He was notified about the same time that well received Makeup2mud episode (about the elementary school teacher referencing his career/schedule for teaching material) was run for SX. A lot to process for Craig (in Jan.) to say the least.

EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 9:07am
@hamncheeze
In a way that's correct, but the procedure in MX is that they send a team to an event where they'll test say, top three then say two alternate finishes, at random, those randoms are chosen DURING that race....this way, no one knows in advance to race on where to finish.

Say 1,2,3 and then at random, 7th and 10th

As soon as each rider in that position, exits the track, a WADA/USADA official is essentially an "escort"

They each sign some paperwork, then the escort keeps the rider in his/her sight at all times....and the rider to keep the official in sight as well, so no "funny business" happens

After rider gets a rest and some fluids back in them so they can piss, they go to AMA trailer and pee, under the supervision of that escort...both A and B sample

Sign off on paperwork, each sample and done until results come back
TeamGreen
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6/19/2019 9:07am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2019 9:44pm
There have been even "more recent" screw-ups in the testing of riders. I'm talking "administrative and management" type screw-ups that lead me to believe that it may be time to throw the baby out with the bath-water: In other words...

Good bye WADA & USADA.

I'm all for some form of testing/rule enforcement to try to level the playing field; however, from what I can see...this current system is NOT doing what was intended and getting a TIMELY response and ruling from our friends in Europe has been virtually non-existent.

On the other-hand: if we leave this current system...

What happens then?
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hamncheeze
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6/19/2019 9:08am
hamncheeze wrote:
HRM straps are subject to noise. I'm way past my moto days but I've worn every brand out there in cycling and at some point all...
HRM straps are subject to noise. I'm way past my moto days but I've worn every brand out there in cycling and at some point all of them have given me erroneous HR data, and the Garmin ones always seem to go to HR between 212 and 232 when they are acting up (and Garmin was a sponsor of Geico).
215 HR is not out of line for a 20 year old super fit athlete. It is at or very close to max and certainly anaerobic...
215 HR is not out of line for a 20 year old super fit athlete. It is at or very close to max and certainly anaerobic, but not unusual. If he was 50 i would say that is strange, but doping doesn't cause that.
Disclaimer: I don’t care if he did take the supplement, these guys should be able to use whatever they need because the sport is brutal. My...
Disclaimer: I don’t care if he did take the supplement, these guys should be able to use whatever they need because the sport is brutal.

My opinion is he was using asthma medication to open his lungs and improve cardiac response. 250 SX riders are NOT tested, so when he got the call to ride the 450 he assumed it was out of his system.(NOT FACT, pure speculation) That is my guess. A penalty for intentionally using the substance should be 4 races, not 2 years.
Fair enough Chris. I vaguely remember the story of how high Craig's HR can run in training. My point was just that a lot of HRM data can be suspicious with numbers in the 210-240 range as this seems to be the most common noise frequency for Garmin, Wahoo, Polar, Suunto, et al based on my experience. Whenever I see any numbers like this I'm immediately suspicious.

As to your claim about him taking it to improve vascular constriction, I guess it's possible, but if only trace amounts were detected we'd need to see some scientific evidence on how much is required to actually make a performance gain, and what range that would be in a drug test. I am sure the data is out there somewhere, I just don't have time to dig it up.

Again, so much of this comes down to why are these healthy 20-something athletes turning to supplements all the time? There are hundreds of stories of athletes testing positive from contamination, and if one does enough research the true benefit of any of these supplements can almost always be debunked. Eat well, drink well, rest well and train well. I'd venture most of these guys turn to supplements because they are mentally fragile. It takes maturity to be content that just your own body with good fuel is enough to compete.
jbrown15
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6/19/2019 9:08am
jbrown15 wrote:
So if they did ditch the FIM who’s gonna stop them from call it the “World Championship”? They own the Supercross series and it’s a professional...
So if they did ditch the FIM who’s gonna stop them from call it the “World Championship”?

They own the Supercross series and it’s a professional race series, I’m pretty sure they can call it what ever they want.
That’s not how it works. Every single race series in the world can’t start calling themselves world or european or asian or national or whatever championship...
That’s not how it works. Every single race series in the world can’t start calling themselves world or european or asian or national or whatever championship just because they feel like it.
Yeah and who’s going to stop them from calling it that?
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hamncheeze
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6/19/2019 9:14am
EngIceDave wrote:
@hamncheeze In a way that's correct, but the procedure in MX is that they send a team to an event where they'll test say, top three...
@hamncheeze
In a way that's correct, but the procedure in MX is that they send a team to an event where they'll test say, top three then say two alternate finishes, at random, those randoms are chosen DURING that race....this way, no one knows in advance to race on where to finish.

Say 1,2,3 and then at random, 7th and 10th

As soon as each rider in that position, exits the track, a WADA/USADA official is essentially an "escort"

They each sign some paperwork, then the escort keeps the rider in his/her sight at all times....and the rider to keep the official in sight as well, so no "funny business" happens

After rider gets a rest and some fluids back in them so they can piss, they go to AMA trailer and pee, under the supervision of that escort...both A and B sample

Sign off on paperwork, each sample and done until results come back
Yes, I didn't go into the detail but it is a group of both the sample collector and a chaperone to ensure that nothing fishy happens from either party. The procedure is similar to cycling. They test the podium and then some randoms are requested. Sometimes the random list is posted just before the race start.

Tangential story: A friend of mine had problems years ago racing at a stage race in California. The random list was posted at the start but he missed it, and his name was on it. The stage was point to point so the finish was in a different location and the logistics were a pain. He finished, his rag-tag composite team load him up and they never went back to the start. He got notification a few weeks later that he had failed a drug test. He appealed and went through a painful process with the Canadian anti-doping group and Cycling Canada to get his suspension down to 6 months but it really hurt his career at the time. This was way back in 2003 or so, and things have changed a lot since then.
RichieW13
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6/19/2019 9:29am
jbrown15 wrote:
So if they did ditch the FIM who’s gonna stop them from call it the “World Championship”? They own the Supercross series and it’s a professional...
So if they did ditch the FIM who’s gonna stop them from call it the “World Championship”?

They own the Supercross series and it’s a professional race series, I’m pretty sure they can call it what ever they want.
That’s not how it works. Every single race series in the world can’t start calling themselves world or european or asian or national or whatever championship...
That’s not how it works. Every single race series in the world can’t start calling themselves world or european or asian or national or whatever championship just because they feel like it.
Why not? Who is going to stop them from doing it? The United States Government? United Nations?

On the other hand, does ANYBODY care that it has the "World Championship" label on it?
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EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 9:44am
jbrown15 wrote:
Yeah and who’s going to stop them from calling it that?
FIM is the world recognized sanction of motorcycle racing, and most every national sanction (AMA, for example) is a member nation

AMA can't "go rogue" otherwise they're legally, internationally, just another outlaw series
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EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 9:45am
@hamncheeze, I thought that for the rest of the TV viewing audience, clarification was in order
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early
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6/19/2019 9:46am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2019 3:19pm
Anybody know what this is all about? I'm sure Connor Fields gets tested all the time.
Brett_Clark
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6/19/2019 9:59am
The bias the fim has towards its European riders is ridiculous. Mxon last year in a "random" fuel test all 3 USA riders were selected. Every American rider that has failed a WADA test has been hung out on a limb with no communication or answers. Yet we hear nothing about European riders having these issues or failing tests. You mean to tell me the lower tier GP riders are all eating healthy and not taking in any of these band substances. In cades case I feel he was selected by WADA because he turned in the Tue but they never completed the process on their end and WADA knew this so they tested him knowing he would fail. Bottom line the AMA needs to step up and the FIM needs to lose WADA and go to in house testing.
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Bramlett321
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6/19/2019 10:07am
Because many of us take supplements to help us recover or supplement a depleted resource in our body. We like to stay in shape and I...
Because many of us take supplements to help us recover or supplement a depleted resource in our body. We like to stay in shape and I 100% believe what he says in this and I'd bet if they tested every damn racer out there that most of their supps are contaminated as well.

If the damn AMA doesn't pull their heads out of their asses on our drug testing policy and find a middle road between where we were and where we are with the "confused" FIM group they're going to wind up ruining some up and coming young athletes career.

For crying out loud they "dun" retired Stew what's next ??!!
The AMA has nothing to do with this whatsoever.
Then insert whoever's name goes there...you get my point.
byke
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6/19/2019 10:08am
Spudnut wrote:
Wada = We Are Dumb Asses
We've all known that for a while, so the real dumbasses are the ones that use WADA, and the ones that use the ones that use WADA. If you're building a house and you know your pool guy sucks and you keep using them, who's really at fault there?
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Bramlett321
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6/19/2019 10:10am
byke wrote:
We've all known that for a while, so the real dumbasses are the ones that use WADA, and the ones that use the ones that use...
We've all known that for a while, so the real dumbasses are the ones that use WADA, and the ones that use the ones that use WADA. If you're building a house and you know your pool guy sucks and you keep using them, who's really at fault there?
Thank you....^^^^ that's what I should have said.
jbrown15
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6/19/2019 10:16am
EngIceDave wrote:
FIM is the world recognized sanction of motorcycle racing, and most every national sanction (AMA, for example) is a member nation AMA can't "go rogue" otherwise...
FIM is the world recognized sanction of motorcycle racing, and most every national sanction (AMA, for example) is a member nation

AMA can't "go rogue" otherwise they're legally, internationally, just another outlaw series
I get what you’re saying, but my point is people are making the argument of why do we need the FIM and WADA. If Feld said FU to the FIM and did their own thing who’s going to stop them from calling their series what ever they want too.
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Casting
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6/19/2019 10:20am
early wrote:
Anybody know what this is all about? I'm sure Connor Fields gets tested all the time.
Not sure why Renner would point at Fields.

Maybe he knows something we don't, but I believe Craig has said Fields is acting as his mental coach, or something like that.
EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 10:27am
jbrown15 wrote:
I get what you’re saying, but my point is people are making the argument of why do we need the FIM and WADA. If Feld said...
I get what you’re saying, but my point is people are making the argument of why do we need the FIM and WADA. If Feld said FU to the FIM and did their own thing who’s going to stop them from calling their series what ever they want too.
Then ask yourself this, why is there testing in MX Nationals?
Feld has nothing to do with it

It's because it's AMA sanctioned, a signatory to the FIM
77Moto
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6/19/2019 10:40am
byke wrote:
We've all known that for a while, so the real dumbasses are the ones that use WADA, and the ones that use the ones that use...
We've all known that for a while, so the real dumbasses are the ones that use WADA, and the ones that use the ones that use WADA. If you're building a house and you know your pool guy sucks and you keep using them, who's really at fault there?
Thank you....^^^^ that's what I should have said.
Explain what Wada or Usada did bad.
Just 1 thing will suffice.
byke
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6/19/2019 10:42am
Taking forever to do anything.

Penalties not inline with other professional sports.
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EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 11:00am
byke wrote:
Taking forever to do anything.

Penalties not inline with other professional sports.
Sports not using WADA or other sports using WADA, like the IOC?
Falcon
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6/19/2019 11:06am
jbrown15 wrote:
So if they did ditch the FIM who’s gonna stop them from call it the “World Championship”? They own the Supercross series and it’s a professional...
So if they did ditch the FIM who’s gonna stop them from call it the “World Championship”?

They own the Supercross series and it’s a professional race series, I’m pretty sure they can call it what ever they want.
That’s not how it works. Every single race series in the world can’t start calling themselves world or european or asian or national or whatever championship...
That’s not how it works. Every single race series in the world can’t start calling themselves world or european or asian or national or whatever championship just because they feel like it.
Yes, they can. How do you think the FIM became internationally respected as the "it" promoter, anyway? They called themselves that and enough people agreed with them that it became accepted.

It's kind of like currency; your $20 bill is completely worthless. It only seems like it has value because everybody agrees that it has $20 worth of value.
EngIceDave
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6/19/2019 11:31am Edited Date/Time 6/19/2019 11:31am
Wait....

So NOW we trust the AMA to do drug testing and get it right?

Oh, and be impartial?
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6/19/2019 11:33am
The WHOLE supplements industry is completely unregulated and uncontrolled. There is absolutely no obligation on the part of the supplements companies to ensure that what they say is in the product is actually in it, or indeed that something not listed is not in it. That is the way it is. Period.

Taking supplements is playing the lottery - except there is no real upside.
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6/19/2019 11:40am
davistld01 wrote:
I'm afraid American racers are the proverbial "redheaded stepchildren" as far as the FIM is concerned. I doubt seriously that anyone really gets tested in the...
I'm afraid American racers are the proverbial "redheaded stepchildren" as far as the FIM is concerned. I doubt seriously that anyone really gets tested in the GP's...or certainly not to the frequency US riders are. You can also bet that if there was found to be an infraction of the doping rule with someone in GP competition, the punishment would be nowhere near the severity that has been dropped on US riders. Maybe I'm wrong, but you sure don't hear about it like you do here.
LOL

You ever think the riders are just not stupid enough to get sucked into marketing and publicity hype and ingest things from fly-by-night anonymous companies touting unrealistic benefits and results? The supplements industry is the modern day equivalent of snake oil salesmen.
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2thefront
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6/19/2019 11:41am
logan_140 wrote:
No sort of doping is going to help a racer win a sx or Mx race imo. There’s so much more to it then that.
So if PEDs won’t help win races why do these guys take supplements that could be contaminated? Surely they’re way less impactful than a PED.
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