Electric Motorcycle with Gearbox

-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK-
Edited Date/Time 6/18/2019 10:47am
Not sure if this has been discussed or not but the Italian company Tacita will be entering the US market with their gear shifting motorcycles.

The company is already in the offroad market.

Tacita T-Race Cross It has a 5 speed gearbox, hydraulic clutch, 2 different maps for the motor power, and 2 different maps for the motor brake.

They're not exactly good looking bikes but offering a gearbox and a clutch makes it feel more like traditional moto.

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dimetime
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dimetime 6/16/2019 10:50am
6/16/2019 10:50am
This has been my only complaint about e-bikes. Agreed, bike is ugly AF but at least we're headed in the right direction.
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 6/16/2019 10:53am
6/16/2019 10:53am
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
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dimetime
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dimetime 6/16/2019 10:56am
6/16/2019 10:56am Edited Date/Time 6/16/2019 10:57am
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes with a clutch amd gears.

I'm left wondering why any decent rider would want to do away with one of the things that makes a motorcycle a motorcycle.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/16/2019 10:58am
6/16/2019 10:58am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
Makes it feel like a traditional motorcycle and not a Vespa scooter.
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 6/16/2019 11:01am
6/16/2019 11:01am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Makes it feel like a traditional motorcycle and not a Vespa scooter.
Have you ever ridden an electric dirt bike?
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Fourth_Floor
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Fourth_Floor 6/16/2019 11:03am
6/16/2019 11:03am
And that bike doesn't look at all like a child's power wheels.......Whistling
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/16/2019 11:03am
6/16/2019 11:03am
Fourth_Floor wrote:
Have you ever ridden an electric dirt bike?
Wheelchair bound so no.
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JM485
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JM485 6/16/2019 11:11am
6/16/2019 11:11am
dimetime wrote:
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes...
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes with a clutch amd gears.

I'm left wondering why any decent rider would want to do away with one of the things that makes a motorcycle a motorcycle.
Because any decent rider wants to go as fast as they can around a track. There's no reason why an E-bike needs gears and a clutch, it's more complexity, more things to go wrong (i.e. DNFs), added cost, and reduced efficiency. You can call it a kids toy all you want but when someone comes blowing by you out of a corner on one as you shift up a gear you'll be eating your words pretty quickly. Teslas don't have gears for a reason. This argument is so stupid I can't even believe it keeps coming up, why the hell would you want to add unnecessary parts and expense to a bike that doesn't need them just because you can't get past an idiotic preconceived notion that a bike needs gears and a clutch?
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Sluggo77
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Sluggo77 6/16/2019 11:12am
6/16/2019 11:12am
Sounds like a modern 450 that can be left in 3rd gear for the whole track. It is another advantage if you want trophy's but not sure how fun they are to ride.
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-MAVERICK-
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-MAVERICK- 6/16/2019 12:10pm
6/16/2019 12:10pm
dimetime wrote:
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes...
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes with a clutch amd gears.

I'm left wondering why any decent rider would want to do away with one of the things that makes a motorcycle a motorcycle.
JM485 wrote:
Because any decent rider wants to go as fast as they can around a track. There's no reason why an E-bike needs gears and a clutch...
Because any decent rider wants to go as fast as they can around a track. There's no reason why an E-bike needs gears and a clutch, it's more complexity, more things to go wrong (i.e. DNFs), added cost, and reduced efficiency. You can call it a kids toy all you want but when someone comes blowing by you out of a corner on one as you shift up a gear you'll be eating your words pretty quickly. Teslas don't have gears for a reason. This argument is so stupid I can't even believe it keeps coming up, why the hell would you want to add unnecessary parts and expense to a bike that doesn't need them just because you can't get past an idiotic preconceived notion that a bike needs gears and a clutch?
I get what what you're saying but here's the thing, people like different things. Some people were put off by Alta not because it was electric but because it didn't offer a clutch and/or gearbox. This company fills that void.

It's no different than some people preferring to ride 2 strokes over 4 strokes.

Besides, having more options to choose from on the market is not a bad thing. This might encourage some people to pick up an electric bike that were otherwise not even going to consider one because of those lack of features.
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Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 6/16/2019 12:46pm
6/16/2019 12:46pm
There's no need for a gearbox. I can see how a clutch would be useful though, particularly for enduro and trials. It's hard to do controlled sharp power blips with just a throttle.
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.kyle
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.kyle 6/16/2019 1:05pm
6/16/2019 1:05pm
I'm in favour of a clutch for the simple reason it can be used as a safety device. Accidentally grab a gob full of throttle and you can pull in the clutch to get it back under control.
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Zoom
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Zoom 6/16/2019 2:14pm
6/16/2019 2:14pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2019 2:15pm
As an former Alta Regional Manager and an experienced rider/racer, I loved the non clutch/gears of my Alta's. With the engine braking that was built into the different maps, it made setting up for turn better than any bike I had ever ridden.

Out of the hundreds of riders that test rode my Alta's not one ever complained about the lack of clutch/gears. In fact the faster the rider the more they liked it without clutch/gears, including Kevin Moranz, Curren Thurman and Kevin Winter. Really the only draw back of the Alta was range.
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Question
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Question 6/16/2019 2:21pm
6/16/2019 2:21pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2019 2:24pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
Jumps ?
Whoops ?
Exiting corners ?
Riding mud ?

It is always good to have that option. I just read the very interesting previous post and would be tempted to try, but that is not for everyone, especially if racing. Some people can't ride without clutch.
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Zoom
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Zoom 6/16/2019 2:46pm
6/16/2019 2:46pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2019 2:50pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
Question wrote:
Jumps ? Whoops ? Exiting corners ? Riding mud ? It is always good to have that option. I just read the very interesting previous post...
Jumps ?
Whoops ?
Exiting corners ?
Riding mud ?

It is always good to have that option. I just read the very interesting previous post and would be tempted to try, but that is not for everyone, especially if racing. Some people can't ride without clutch.
I use the clutch A LOT on a gas bike. Maybe too much.

I think your statement should be "some people THINK they can't ride without a clutch". I was one of those persons before I went to work for Alta.

Jumps - Never a need for a clutch
Whoops - Never a need for a clutch
Exiting corners - Sometimes a need for a clutch, but only to raise the PRM's. Cornering was one of the amazing things about riding an Alta. You didn't have to use a clutch because the power of the motor was always there. No bogging or over rev possible.

See my reply above...

Hundreds of riders test rode my Alta's and no one ever came back wishing it had a clutch. They just came back with a huge smile on their face.
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rjg
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rjg 6/16/2019 2:48pm
6/16/2019 2:48pm
I'm good with no clutch and gears. Unnecessary complexity.
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GODZILLA
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GODZILLA 6/16/2019 2:48pm
6/16/2019 2:48pm
The Tacita weighs about as much as a dead whale.
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Question
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Question 6/16/2019 2:51pm
6/16/2019 2:51pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
Question wrote:
Jumps ? Whoops ? Exiting corners ? Riding mud ? It is always good to have that option. I just read the very interesting previous post...
Jumps ?
Whoops ?
Exiting corners ?
Riding mud ?

It is always good to have that option. I just read the very interesting previous post and would be tempted to try, but that is not for everyone, especially if racing. Some people can't ride without clutch.
Zoom wrote:
I use the clutch A LOT on a gas bike. Maybe too much. I think your statement should be "some people THINK they can't ride without...
I use the clutch A LOT on a gas bike. Maybe too much.

I think your statement should be "some people THINK they can't ride without a clutch". I was one of those persons before I went to work for Alta.

Jumps - Never a need for a clutch
Whoops - Never a need for a clutch
Exiting corners - Sometimes a need for a clutch, but only to raise the PRM's. Cornering was one of the amazing things about riding an Alta. You didn't have to use a clutch because the power of the motor was always there. No bogging or over rev possible.

See my reply above...

Hundreds of riders test rode my Alta's and no one ever came back wishing it had a clutch. They just came back with a huge smile on their face.
Good point, I didn't have the opportunity to try one.

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Richard Tease II 6/16/2019 2:55pm
6/16/2019 2:55pm
Good thing with electric bikes is it puts the electric start fanboys to rest
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powertrip456 6/16/2019 2:59pm
6/16/2019 2:59pm
I never did get to ride an Alta. I barely touch the clutch on any of my bikes, even the 150. I do know that when I start to get out of shape I love having a clutch or only being able to whiskey to 3rd gear wide instead of max bike speed. I imagine that if I had a gearless electric bike I would be able to adapt though. My $0.02 is to just try one of whatever before you buy it...and ride and be happy to be riding?
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Robgvx
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Robgvx 6/16/2019 2:59pm
6/16/2019 2:59pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
Disclaimer: I’ve never ridden an electric bike.

However, one fundamental aspect of a clutch that I can see is that a lot of power can be created instantly by the smallest move of your left finger rather than a bigger move of your right wrist. An electric bike may have tons of torque but is that the same as clutching it?
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JM485
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JM485 6/16/2019 3:18pm
6/16/2019 3:18pm
dimetime wrote:
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes...
Because it's what seperates real dirt bikes from a childs power wheel. That's why. Most of us couldn't wait to grow up and ride real bikes with a clutch amd gears.

I'm left wondering why any decent rider would want to do away with one of the things that makes a motorcycle a motorcycle.
JM485 wrote:
Because any decent rider wants to go as fast as they can around a track. There's no reason why an E-bike needs gears and a clutch...
Because any decent rider wants to go as fast as they can around a track. There's no reason why an E-bike needs gears and a clutch, it's more complexity, more things to go wrong (i.e. DNFs), added cost, and reduced efficiency. You can call it a kids toy all you want but when someone comes blowing by you out of a corner on one as you shift up a gear you'll be eating your words pretty quickly. Teslas don't have gears for a reason. This argument is so stupid I can't even believe it keeps coming up, why the hell would you want to add unnecessary parts and expense to a bike that doesn't need them just because you can't get past an idiotic preconceived notion that a bike needs gears and a clutch?
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I get what what you're saying but here's the thing, people like different things. Some people were put off by Alta not because it was electric...
I get what what you're saying but here's the thing, people like different things. Some people were put off by Alta not because it was electric but because it didn't offer a clutch and/or gearbox. This company fills that void.

It's no different than some people preferring to ride 2 strokes over 4 strokes.

Besides, having more options to choose from on the market is not a bad thing. This might encourage some people to pick up an electric bike that were otherwise not even going to consider one because of those lack of features.
You’re missing my point. Adding a clutch and gears would be more akin to adding an extra button you had to push on a gas bike to allow you to shift, it’s totally unnecessary and serves no purpose besides making things difficult. I’m a two stroke guy through and through and the few times I was lucky enough to ride an Alta not one time did I want a clutch, and I sure as hell didn’t want to be bothered with shifting. Two strokes are fun because they’re light and you can throw them around, nobody likes shifting 5 feet out of a turn and downshifting twice going into one. You don’t realize how much time you lose every lap shifting until you don’t have to do it. Why the hell would you purposely make yourself and your bike slower with absolutely no benefit, that’s just stupid. A clutch and gearbox aren’t features, they’re a necessary evil on gas bikes that rob power, raise costs, and reduce efficiency.
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theycallmeebryan 6/16/2019 3:21pm
6/16/2019 3:21pm
I own two Altas and also own a KX450 and KX125. I race my MXR against 450s and am very competitive. I use my EXR (dual sport) to commute to work and to zip around local single track to get technical practice in mid-week when I can't make it to a mx track.

I never miss the lack of clutch and gears on my Altas. Due to the nature of electric motors, the motor always has the perfect amount of power on tap. I can literally creep either of my Altas one handed slower than a person can crawl on the ground just by using the throttle. Try that on your gas bike for extended periods of time and you'll fry the clutch faster than KFC makes your bucket of chicken wings. Wack the throttle and you'll wheelie over whatever you need to. Never worry about stalling the bike or being in the wrong gear to hit a jump.

The only reason gas bikes need a clutch and transmission is because of the narrow power window and because the motor has to be continuously spinning to be "running".

Electric motocross bikes are far from boring. In fact, I have more fun on my Altas than I do on both my 450 and 125. I never miss having a clutch and transmission when riding them, nor do I forget how to use them when I hop on my gas bikes. I also make more mistakes on my gas bikes than I do on my electric bikes. Electric allows you to focus on riding technique way more than gas bikes.
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Zoom
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Zoom 6/16/2019 3:21pm
6/16/2019 3:21pm
Fourth_Floor wrote:
What exactly is everyone's fetish for a clutch and gearbox on an electric dirt bike?
Robgvx wrote:
Disclaimer: I’ve never ridden an electric bike. However, one fundamental aspect of a clutch that I can see is that a lot of power can be...
Disclaimer: I’ve never ridden an electric bike.

However, one fundamental aspect of a clutch that I can see is that a lot of power can be created instantly by the smallest move of your left finger rather than a bigger move of your right wrist. An electric bike may have tons of torque but is that the same as clutching it?
Don't know about any other electric bike other than Alta. But the power in very instantaneous. It was 100% throttle control. There were 4 modes available. I would only recommend mode 4 with very experienced riders.
JM485
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JM485 6/16/2019 3:24pm
6/16/2019 3:24pm
Robgvx wrote:
Disclaimer: I’ve never ridden an electric bike. However, one fundamental aspect of a clutch that I can see is that a lot of power can be...
Disclaimer: I’ve never ridden an electric bike.

However, one fundamental aspect of a clutch that I can see is that a lot of power can be created instantly by the smallest move of your left finger rather than a bigger move of your right wrist. An electric bike may have tons of torque but is that the same as clutching it?
The only reason you need to clutch a gas bike on a track is because you’re bogging the motor and aren’t in the meat of the power, you don’t have this issue with electric. You’re not making more power by clutching, you’re just putting the motor in an rpm range that produces more and effectively changing the mechanical advantage to your rear wheel on the fly.

Hold your hands in front of you real quick like you’re riding. Stab the clutch with your left fingers and note how quickly you can do it. Now, twist your right hand like you’re punching the throttle and note how quickly you can do it. For me there’s no difference.
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loftyair
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loftyair 6/16/2019 3:36pm
6/16/2019 3:36pm
Clutch please....
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Dropbear
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Dropbear 6/16/2019 4:11pm
6/16/2019 4:11pm
There’s also no need for cams, valves etc. now. But some silly people still want them.
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endurox
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endurox 6/16/2019 4:45pm
6/16/2019 4:45pm
Try splattering or zapping without a clutch. Gear box increases bikes range. The Mecatecno is actuallly lighter than the gas powered 2 stroke trials bike by 10 pounds or so and 20 pounds lighter than the Honda/Montesa 4 stroker.
Dropbear
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Dropbear 6/16/2019 4:56pm
6/16/2019 4:56pm Edited Date/Time 6/16/2019 5:06pm
endurox wrote:
Try splattering or zapping without a clutch. Gear box increases bikes range. The Mecatecno is actuallly lighter than the gas powered 2 stroke trials bike by...
Try splattering or zapping without a clutch. Gear box increases bikes range. The Mecatecno is actuallly lighter than the gas powered 2 stroke trials bike by 10 pounds or so and 20 pounds lighter than the Honda/Montesa 4 stroker.
Just had a look at those. Thanks for mentioning them, I wouldn’t have known otherwise. Look awesome. What are they like? Legal to use? I don’t expect capacity is a huge factor in trials? I don’t have a clue, really. The TY E Yamaha looks pretty damn good too.
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mikec265 6/16/2019 8:30pm
6/16/2019 8:30pm
I would love a clutch on my Alta mainly to save me from whiskey throttle once my arms pump up. I have not tried the left hand rear brake to see how much it may help. I never need a clutch for power output. There's plenty of power, and in mud I use a less powerful map which is like cheating.
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