Justin Cooper podium interview

Mit12
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Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
6/2/2019 10:58pm
Let me see, one of the best 250 riders in the field cross rutted and went off the track at speed and you guys want him to go back and enter the track going the opposite way in the same section? If you do not see something wrong with that logic please stop watching the races!
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6/2/2019 10:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/2/2019 11:10pm
I am rooting for Marv and Osborne in the 450's and AC, Amart and HLawrence on 250's. When Marv jumped on the red cross I like most said yep he did it and deserves a penalty. I knew this would probably mess with his head and was disappointed especially seeing as his title pretty much ended there. But it was the right and only call.

AC I was watching it with my son and we discussed straight away AC did everything right. I never got to see the interviews, go on vital anything. I didn't think about it again I was so sure he did nothing wrong. Than all this drama.

Who was that guy in the LCQ who pinned it around the triple for the transfer? it was nothing like that, not even close.

Anyway looks like 10 percent Cooper 90% AC on this one. What I want to know is what is up with this Yamaha team outdoors this year?

AC loses the supercross on his own. He did it he owned it. Said nothing disrespectful about Ferrandis. Than last week Dylan (who I am a bit of a fan of) was crying like a bitch about AC having contact with him. It just kept going and AC kept justifying himself but Dylan wouldn't have a bar of it. I thought it was a little lame. Now this week they are protesting and Cooper has lost himself. Why are they so anti AC? It is crazy the negativity there.
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Ray_MXS
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SE
6/2/2019 11:09pm
I am rooting for Marv and Osborne in the 450's and AC, Amart and HLawrence on 250's. When Marv jumped on the red cross I like...
I am rooting for Marv and Osborne in the 450's and AC, Amart and HLawrence on 250's. When Marv jumped on the red cross I like most said yep he did it and deserves a penalty. I knew this would probably mess with his head and was disappointed especially seeing as his title pretty much ended there. But it was the right and only call.

AC I was watching it with my son and we discussed straight away AC did everything right. I never got to see the interviews, go on vital anything. I didn't think about it again I was so sure he did nothing wrong. Than all this drama.

Who was that guy in the LCQ who pinned it around the triple for the transfer? it was nothing like that, not even close.

Anyway looks like 10 percent Cooper 90% AC on this one. What I want to know is what is up with this Yamaha team outdoors this year?

AC loses the supercross on his own. He did it he owned it. Said nothing disrespectful about Ferrandis. Than last week Dylan (who I am a bit of a fan of) was crying like a bitch about AC having contact with him. It just kept going and AC kept justifying himself but Dylan wouldn't have a bar of it. I thought it was a little lame. Now this week they are protesting and Cooper has lost himself. Why are they so anti AC? It is crazy the negativity there.
And AC just keeps that calm and cool face all throughout.
Just watched the Swapmoto interview with AC where he adressed this and he just explained everything very logical and then going on to say how great Cooper is riding, how AC is learning stuff from him and that Cooper is just killing it.

The more dumb things the Yamaha guys says about AC, the more dumb they look when AC is such a great sport at every moment.
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NVA57
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6/3/2019 12:20am
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
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The Shop

CPR
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6/3/2019 2:39am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here!
So here's the rule:
i. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage.

1. While off course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner.

2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

3. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the racecourse and re-entering.

4. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.

So watch the race footage and GoPro above and decide.

For what it's worth, I think;
Rule 1. AC did accelerate hard up the hill, unsafe though? Probably not but who decides? Nearest flaggy may say unsafe, race director watching a video declares safe.
Rule 2. Is so open to interpretation it's not funny! Did AC gain advantage by accelerating? Watch the GoPro above and see how far he is behind JC when he goes off track then he jumps back on in front of JC- is that gained advantage? Yes.
Rule 3. Again totally open to interpretation and therefore bias.
Rule 4. At worst AC gets awarded 2nd.

It's not about Cooper being a douche and whatever he did after the incident is irrelevant. What AC did in slowing down after coming back on is irrelevant by the rules but sounds like the AMA took it into account in their ruling. My guess is AC knew he came back on too early so redressed it by slowing but if the rules are black & white that doesn't change anything.
Bottom line; the rules have too many gray areas and the AMA doesn't make consistent concise rulings. But it's done now, bring on the next round, this could get interesting!
Which is what we like right?
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Adam43
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6/3/2019 2:46am
Not totally dirty, but I think there should be some penalty for making a mistake.

This whole modern concept of going off track, losing no time and pinning it through access areas needs to end.

Cianciarulo decided to negate the error. I think a time penalty would have been appropriate.
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6
TDeath21
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Somewhere, MO, USA
6/3/2019 3:05am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
Actually, this video makes me believe even more he should be penalized.

He did not go to the “next safest place”. He cut straight across and wheelies those banners. Doing a wheelie over the banners is something he could have done there at any point prior to when he decided to do it. The banners were the same throughout the section. He decided to not ride along side the track and instead cut directly across. That’s the issue here. Had he ridden beside the track at idle speed the entire time and then re-entered at the next safest place, okay. Fair. But he obviously didn’t ride along side the track because he cuts directly over. He cuts directly over to wheelie banners, something he could have done several feet prior.

I don’t think many here dislike AC or blame him. I love the guy and it’s impossible not to cheer for him. His interviews are top notch and he has a great personality. But that rule. Oof. It’s bad. It makes no sense. If Adam makes that mistake and gets kicked to the middle of the track, his momentum is completely slowed and he loses much more time than he did by going off the track. Yes he kinda let Cooper go a little, but nowhere near what that mistake should have done. That rule needs to be revisited for sure. It has to be better. You can’t just go off the track like that and keep your same spot on the track, allowing you to keep the pressure on the rider in front of you.

Do I think AC should be penalized? Yeah. But do I think he should per the rule? No. Well. I guess if we get technical he did re-enter in front of Cooper by the letter of the law. But anyway, his wasn’t even the worst one of the day. Sexton’s was way worse. In what world can you just go completely off the track and rejoin it however many million miles later in the same exact spot you were? That was a joke. And don’t even get me started on Martin at Millville a few years ago. AC’s was extremely tame in comparison to those two, and he owned it, apologized, and did what the rule states he should do. However, we can’t kid ourselves and say that rule is okay. It’s not. Nor should it ever be.
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agn5009
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State College, PA, USA
6/3/2019 3:08am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
CPR wrote:
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here! So here's the rule: i. A...
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here!
So here's the rule:
i. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage.

1. While off course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner.

2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

3. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the racecourse and re-entering.

4. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.

So watch the race footage and GoPro above and decide.

For what it's worth, I think;
Rule 1. AC did accelerate hard up the hill, unsafe though? Probably not but who decides? Nearest flaggy may say unsafe, race director watching a video declares safe.
Rule 2. Is so open to interpretation it's not funny! Did AC gain advantage by accelerating? Watch the GoPro above and see how far he is behind JC when he goes off track then he jumps back on in front of JC- is that gained advantage? Yes.
Rule 3. Again totally open to interpretation and therefore bias.
Rule 4. At worst AC gets awarded 2nd.

It's not about Cooper being a douche and whatever he did after the incident is irrelevant. What AC did in slowing down after coming back on is irrelevant by the rules but sounds like the AMA took it into account in their ruling. My guess is AC knew he came back on too early so redressed it by slowing but if the rules are black & white that doesn't change anything.
Bottom line; the rules have too many gray areas and the AMA doesn't make consistent concise rulings. But it's done now, bring on the next round, this could get interesting!
Which is what we like right?
Man, you’re really stretching hard just to not admit you’ve been wrong this whole time. AC went off the track, clearly looked around for the quickest place to re enter, couldn’t find one, went to the other end of the turn, still couldn’t find one, accelerated over top banners to re enter the track as it was his only option, backed off a fair amount from Cooper, continued on with his race.

That is exactly what happened. If you can’t see or acknowledge all that from the go pro video then you simply have an ulterior motive here rather than truly admitting what happened.
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Monte122
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CA
6/3/2019 3:21am
" it was kinda endangering me"...... what a joke
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agn5009
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6/3/2019 3:44am
Monte122 wrote:
" it was kinda endangering me"...... what a joke
Did Cooper really say that? Huh
MXD
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6/3/2019 3:46am
Monte122 wrote:
" it was kinda endangering me"...... what a joke
agn5009 wrote:
Did Cooper really say that? Huh
Yes. I believe it was the press conference vid.
nascarnate326
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6/3/2019 3:50am
Hopefully someone in his circle reads this thread and advises him to grow up and cool it on the BS whining.

Would you really want to get your first win from appealing an “incident” like this? I’d want to earn it.
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Question
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6/3/2019 3:56am
Mit12 wrote:
Let me see, one of the best 250 riders in the field cross rutted and went off the track at speed and you guys want him...
Let me see, one of the best 250 riders in the field cross rutted and went off the track at speed and you guys want him to go back and enter the track going the opposite way in the same section? If you do not see something wrong with that logic please stop watching the races!
No horse in here (AC was right to apply the rule), but what you said is exactly the rule in many country.

If you exit the track, you have to re enter where you exited. It was like that in the us too I believe, and as said by someone in a previous posts, it got change to reduce somewhat the risk (as both situations are risky anyway).
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hoppsan
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Stockholm, SE
6/3/2019 3:59am
I'm confused on which rule-book applies and what have you, but this one I found through https://mxsportsproracing.com/ -> Rules -> AMA Pro Rules (page 7):

"2.11 On-Track Regulations
[...]
b. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the course at the closest point to where the rider left the course, without gaining an advantage. If a rider leaves the course for any reason, the rider must immediately slow down to a safe speed so as not to endanger life or limb of other riders, crew members, officials, or the public. It will be the responsibility of the Race Director or his designee to determine whether the rider gained an advantage upon re-entry or failed to slow down after leaving the course. A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position."


This is further brought up in Appendix A, section A2 (page 24):

"A2 General Offenses and Penalties
[...]
l. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track or slow down after leaving the course, and in so doing gaining an advantage"


The rule-book doesn't dwell much on the reasoning behind this slowing down shenanigans beyond "safety", and that is fair (it is a rule-book, not an essay). But it should be evident to anyone that this is to serve as the penalty one receives from obviously pushing yourself to the point where you make a mistake and unwillingly (allegedly) leave the track.

Cianciarulo was pushing it to catch (and pass) Cooper, in this pursuit he made a mistake which ultimately costed him nothing. The path he took from point A to point B ("point A" being where he exited the track and "point B" being where he re-entered it) and the speed at which he went through said path turned out to be faster (or, if you choose to count his slowing down during re-entry to "reset" the gap between him and Cooper, just as fast). This is why this win is questionable (or was, rather, before the official ruling was made).

In other forms of racing, most of them taking place on asphalt, going off-track will usually result in either vehicle-damage or slow-down (superbikes don't do gravel very well, after all). Only really obvious "track-cuts" would result in any gained advantage (or just the mitigation of a previous mistake).

I really wanted Cianciarulo to win, but this one did not sit well with me at all. And for the record (for the sake of consistency if you so will), I thought Sexton's move in moto 1 was equal amounts of (or perhaps even more-so) wrong. I also thought Barcia jumping out of the whoops and then going mach 5 on the side of them during the mud-race that was the Ironman national last year was bs.

Had Cooper still made that mistake if Cianciarulo wasn't on his ass at that point? Who knows. Had Cianciarulo still passed Cooper if his mistake had actually costed him "something" (leaving any specifics beyond that out of this discussion for sanity's sake)? Who knows. But people really need to start being intellectually honest regarding the fairness of these rules and how they are applied these days.
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6/3/2019 4:04am
Adam43 wrote:
Not totally dirty, but I think there should be some penalty for making a mistake. This whole modern concept of going off track, losing no time...
Not totally dirty, but I think there should be some penalty for making a mistake.

This whole modern concept of going off track, losing no time and pinning it through access areas needs to end.

Cianciarulo decided to negate the error. I think a time penalty would have been appropriate.
A penalty for making a mistake? WTF? That is the dumbest thing I have read on here!
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1
TMessi111
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Jonesboro, AR, USA
6/3/2019 4:36am
Swap Moto has his how was your weekend video up. Adam handles it exactly how you would think he would in the interview. If you think AC is an entitled kid who had everything handed to him then you will at least have to admit that someone handed him some respect and intelligence when they handed him his talent. Also talks very good about his competition that called him a cheater on National Television and social media. Adam said he learns from Justin on the bike, Justin should learn from Adam off the bike.
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CPR
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6/3/2019 5:08am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
CPR wrote:
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here! So here's the rule: i. A...
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here!
So here's the rule:
i. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage.

1. While off course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner.

2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

3. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the racecourse and re-entering.

4. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.

So watch the race footage and GoPro above and decide.

For what it's worth, I think;
Rule 1. AC did accelerate hard up the hill, unsafe though? Probably not but who decides? Nearest flaggy may say unsafe, race director watching a video declares safe.
Rule 2. Is so open to interpretation it's not funny! Did AC gain advantage by accelerating? Watch the GoPro above and see how far he is behind JC when he goes off track then he jumps back on in front of JC- is that gained advantage? Yes.
Rule 3. Again totally open to interpretation and therefore bias.
Rule 4. At worst AC gets awarded 2nd.

It's not about Cooper being a douche and whatever he did after the incident is irrelevant. What AC did in slowing down after coming back on is irrelevant by the rules but sounds like the AMA took it into account in their ruling. My guess is AC knew he came back on too early so redressed it by slowing but if the rules are black & white that doesn't change anything.
Bottom line; the rules have too many gray areas and the AMA doesn't make consistent concise rulings. But it's done now, bring on the next round, this could get interesting!
Which is what we like right?
agn5009 wrote:
Man, you’re really stretching hard just to not admit you’ve been wrong this whole time. AC went off the track, clearly looked around for the quickest...
Man, you’re really stretching hard just to not admit you’ve been wrong this whole time. AC went off the track, clearly looked around for the quickest place to re enter, couldn’t find one, went to the other end of the turn, still couldn’t find one, accelerated over top banners to re enter the track as it was his only option, backed off a fair amount from Cooper, continued on with his race.

That is exactly what happened. If you can’t see or acknowledge all that from the go pro video then you simply have an ulterior motive here rather than truly admitting what happened.
Reading and comprehension aren't your strong points are they?
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6/3/2019 5:31am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
So glad they posted this, I was 99% backing AC before, now i'm 100%.

Watching Cooper's interview after watching the GoPro above was cringeworthy. AC entered the track and then gave him even more gap than he had before he made the mistake. Not sure on what planet he feels AC endangered him...
5
OT
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Fantasy
6/3/2019 5:41am
MXD wrote:
I lost a lot of respect for him after that. Win and lose like a man. Whether it’s fair or unfair should have no bearing on...
I lost a lot of respect for him after that. Win and lose like a man. Whether it’s fair or unfair should have no bearing on your reaction. Never mind that he threw it away anyway.
500guy wrote:
You don't think it would bother you to see a guy cut the track and be right back behind you? There needs to be some kind...
You don't think it would bother you to see a guy cut the track and be right back behind you?

There needs to be some kind of penalty for making a mistake that bad.
There is a penalty for going off track and gaining ground. If they penalised everyone for going outside of a marker I think everyone would be getting fines. He didn't gain any ground and if you watch the GoPro footage he probably lost time after he let JC go again.
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731chopper
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DFW, TX, USA
6/3/2019 5:56am
Not a good look for Justin Cooper.
1
Sir
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6/3/2019 6:00am
hoppsan wrote:
I'm confused on which rule-book applies and what have you, but this one I found through https://mxsportsproracing.com/ -> Rules -> [url=https://mxsp.iscdn.net/2019/04/1961_2019_mx_pro_rulebook_v2.pdf]AMA Pro Rules[/url] (page 7): [i]"[b]2.11...
I'm confused on which rule-book applies and what have you, but this one I found through https://mxsportsproracing.com/ -> Rules -> AMA Pro Rules (page 7):

"2.11 On-Track Regulations
[...]
b. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the course at the closest point to where the rider left the course, without gaining an advantage. If a rider leaves the course for any reason, the rider must immediately slow down to a safe speed so as not to endanger life or limb of other riders, crew members, officials, or the public. It will be the responsibility of the Race Director or his designee to determine whether the rider gained an advantage upon re-entry or failed to slow down after leaving the course. A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position."


This is further brought up in Appendix A, section A2 (page 24):

"A2 General Offenses and Penalties
[...]
l. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track or slow down after leaving the course, and in so doing gaining an advantage"


The rule-book doesn't dwell much on the reasoning behind this slowing down shenanigans beyond "safety", and that is fair (it is a rule-book, not an essay). But it should be evident to anyone that this is to serve as the penalty one receives from obviously pushing yourself to the point where you make a mistake and unwillingly (allegedly) leave the track.

Cianciarulo was pushing it to catch (and pass) Cooper, in this pursuit he made a mistake which ultimately costed him nothing. The path he took from point A to point B ("point A" being where he exited the track and "point B" being where he re-entered it) and the speed at which he went through said path turned out to be faster (or, if you choose to count his slowing down during re-entry to "reset" the gap between him and Cooper, just as fast). This is why this win is questionable (or was, rather, before the official ruling was made).

In other forms of racing, most of them taking place on asphalt, going off-track will usually result in either vehicle-damage or slow-down (superbikes don't do gravel very well, after all). Only really obvious "track-cuts" would result in any gained advantage (or just the mitigation of a previous mistake).

I really wanted Cianciarulo to win, but this one did not sit well with me at all. And for the record (for the sake of consistency if you so will), I thought Sexton's move in moto 1 was equal amounts of (or perhaps even more-so) wrong. I also thought Barcia jumping out of the whoops and then going mach 5 on the side of them during the mud-race that was the Ironman national last year was bs.

Had Cooper still made that mistake if Cianciarulo wasn't on his ass at that point? Who knows. Had Cianciarulo still passed Cooper if his mistake had actually costed him "something" (leaving any specifics beyond that out of this discussion for sanity's sake)? Who knows. But people really need to start being intellectually honest regarding the fairness of these rules and how they are applied these days.
A spot-on analysis of the situation and what is clearly an ill-thought-out rule book. Your mention of asphalt racing brings up the incident at Mugello between Rossi and Mir which resulted in both riders going off track through the gravel and resulting in loss of places and both riders dropping to the back. A stark contrast to the Cianciarulo off track excursion i.e there was a clear penalty for Rossi and Mir - loss of time and positions.

AMA Pro and/or MXSports officials say no rule was broken and Cianciarulo did no wrong. It's a shitty rule book when a rider can make such an error resulting in going off track and not suffer for it. MotoGP Race Direction will not allow any rider in any GP class to gain from leaving the track - a rider will receive either a time penalty or made to take the long-lap lane (newly implemented for 2019).

Maybe that is the answer for future races - introduce a long-lap lane, If a rider is not able (for whatever reason) to re-enter the track from where they left it (or very, very close to it) make them take the long-lap, or give a time penalty.
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6/3/2019 6:04am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
Hmmm, after seeing that I don't really understand why he doesn't just take a look over his shoulder to check that it's clear, and take a left back over the banners. He doesn't need to do this immediately after the jump either, which I agree would be unsafe. As it is he ends up missing some rollers and an entire corner, and crossing the banners anyway.

As per my earlier post in the thread I believe the rule is written in such a way to do the best it can with a difficult situation, and it could be that AC's choice of exit point isn't wrong because there's something not apparent on the video - as anyone who's ridden knows; there's a great deal that doesn't show up on the TV. But at the same time he does miss an awful lot of track whilst suffering no time penalty... The bit of race track he missed, the rollers and the corner, are obstacles, they are obstacles he didn't have to deal with on that lap due to his mistake. And yet he suffers no time penalty? That doesn't seem right to me.
3
3
NateDawg
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394
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Location
Athens, GA, USA
6/3/2019 6:05am
NVA57 wrote:
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to...
I can't see how you could do this any better. The only "safe" entry point is right after a blind jump. Kudos to AC! Skip to 3:20

https://youtu.be/1KS7V1DBjUQ
CPR wrote:
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here! So here's the rule: i. A...
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here!
So here's the rule:
i. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage.

1. While off course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner.

2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

3. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the racecourse and re-entering.

4. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.

So watch the race footage and GoPro above and decide.

For what it's worth, I think;
Rule 1. AC did accelerate hard up the hill, unsafe though? Probably not but who decides? Nearest flaggy may say unsafe, race director watching a video declares safe.
Rule 2. Is so open to interpretation it's not funny! Did AC gain advantage by accelerating? Watch the GoPro above and see how far he is behind JC when he goes off track then he jumps back on in front of JC- is that gained advantage? Yes.
Rule 3. Again totally open to interpretation and therefore bias.
Rule 4. At worst AC gets awarded 2nd.

It's not about Cooper being a douche and whatever he did after the incident is irrelevant. What AC did in slowing down after coming back on is irrelevant by the rules but sounds like the AMA took it into account in their ruling. My guess is AC knew he came back on too early so redressed it by slowing but if the rules are black & white that doesn't change anything.
Bottom line; the rules have too many gray areas and the AMA doesn't make consistent concise rulings. But it's done now, bring on the next round, this could get interesting!
Which is what we like right?
Oh just admit you were wrong. There's nothing open to interpretation here. AC followed the rule to a T and immediately relinquished any advantage he MIGHT have gained going off the track.

And again, the only reason he couldn't immediately jump back on course was because of the banners. If not for that he could've gotten right back on track while losing a second at most. You can't penalize a rider just because the AMA wants to generate more marketing revenue.
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kkawboy14
Posts
11486
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Location
USA
6/3/2019 6:10am
2 weeks in a row.

Last week, gate flinch
This week, banner gap

What’s it gonna be next week?
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daemon616
Posts
2025
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Location
Euless, TX, USA
6/3/2019 6:13am
kkawboy14 wrote:
2 weeks in a row.

Last week, gate flinch
This week, banner gap

What’s it gonna be next week?
"We didn't race this week. If we did I totally would've won." All kidding aside Cooper is having a great season and I get the passion. It's easy for everyone to sit back and judge because we don't give a fuck. You can't understand his passion and mind set right now. To be honest he might look back some day and think and feel differently. Right now he's caught up in all of it.
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NateDawg
Posts
394
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Location
Athens, GA, USA
6/3/2019 6:17am
hoppsan wrote:
I'm confused on which rule-book applies and what have you, but this one I found through https://mxsportsproracing.com/ -> Rules -> [url=https://mxsp.iscdn.net/2019/04/1961_2019_mx_pro_rulebook_v2.pdf]AMA Pro Rules[/url] (page 7): [i]"[b]2.11...
I'm confused on which rule-book applies and what have you, but this one I found through https://mxsportsproracing.com/ -> Rules -> AMA Pro Rules (page 7):

"2.11 On-Track Regulations
[...]
b. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the course at the closest point to where the rider left the course, without gaining an advantage. If a rider leaves the course for any reason, the rider must immediately slow down to a safe speed so as not to endanger life or limb of other riders, crew members, officials, or the public. It will be the responsibility of the Race Director or his designee to determine whether the rider gained an advantage upon re-entry or failed to slow down after leaving the course. A rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position."


This is further brought up in Appendix A, section A2 (page 24):

"A2 General Offenses and Penalties
[...]
l. Failure to re-enter the track at a point as close as practical to the point at which the rider left the track or slow down after leaving the course, and in so doing gaining an advantage"


The rule-book doesn't dwell much on the reasoning behind this slowing down shenanigans beyond "safety", and that is fair (it is a rule-book, not an essay). But it should be evident to anyone that this is to serve as the penalty one receives from obviously pushing yourself to the point where you make a mistake and unwillingly (allegedly) leave the track.

Cianciarulo was pushing it to catch (and pass) Cooper, in this pursuit he made a mistake which ultimately costed him nothing. The path he took from point A to point B ("point A" being where he exited the track and "point B" being where he re-entered it) and the speed at which he went through said path turned out to be faster (or, if you choose to count his slowing down during re-entry to "reset" the gap between him and Cooper, just as fast). This is why this win is questionable (or was, rather, before the official ruling was made).

In other forms of racing, most of them taking place on asphalt, going off-track will usually result in either vehicle-damage or slow-down (superbikes don't do gravel very well, after all). Only really obvious "track-cuts" would result in any gained advantage (or just the mitigation of a previous mistake).

I really wanted Cianciarulo to win, but this one did not sit well with me at all. And for the record (for the sake of consistency if you so will), I thought Sexton's move in moto 1 was equal amounts of (or perhaps even more-so) wrong. I also thought Barcia jumping out of the whoops and then going mach 5 on the side of them during the mud-race that was the Ironman national last year was bs.

Had Cooper still made that mistake if Cianciarulo wasn't on his ass at that point? Who knows. Had Cianciarulo still passed Cooper if his mistake had actually costed him "something" (leaving any specifics beyond that out of this discussion for sanity's sake)? Who knows. But people really need to start being intellectually honest regarding the fairness of these rules and how they are applied these days.
Sir wrote:
A spot-on analysis of the situation and what is clearly an ill-thought-out rule book. Your mention of asphalt racing brings up the incident at Mugello between...
A spot-on analysis of the situation and what is clearly an ill-thought-out rule book. Your mention of asphalt racing brings up the incident at Mugello between Rossi and Mir which resulted in both riders going off track through the gravel and resulting in loss of places and both riders dropping to the back. A stark contrast to the Cianciarulo off track excursion i.e there was a clear penalty for Rossi and Mir - loss of time and positions.

AMA Pro and/or MXSports officials say no rule was broken and Cianciarulo did no wrong. It's a shitty rule book when a rider can make such an error resulting in going off track and not suffer for it. MotoGP Race Direction will not allow any rider in any GP class to gain from leaving the track - a rider will receive either a time penalty or made to take the long-lap lane (newly implemented for 2019).

Maybe that is the answer for future races - introduce a long-lap lane, If a rider is not able (for whatever reason) to re-enter the track from where they left it (or very, very close to it) make them take the long-lap, or give a time penalty.
Rossi and Mir losing time had to do with riding a MotoGP bike through sand... That has nothing to do with the rulebook, that's physics. MotoGP has the same rule as the AMA when it comes to reentering the track after a mistake. As long as you don't gain a position or advantage it's ok. Why do you think that's any different than the rule being discussed here?
disbanded
Posts
6958
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Location
Evergreen, CO, USA
6/3/2019 6:28am
You've got to be kidding me with these threads!
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6/3/2019 6:33am Edited Date/Time 6/3/2019 7:32am
The podium interview being the topic of this and not the rule, other than Cooper saying “all rules should be off the table?”, I give Cooper a break for this one. Young kid basically and most likely first time ever he’s been in this position. I don’t know his background, has he ever not won every time out? Amateurs etc? So maybe not winning is new to him. He’s very fast. What he isn’t is experienced enough to hold off riders like AC and he choked the win away. AC clearly faster. The comments on cutting the track or cheating were off base, and he’s clearly fooling himself if he thinks he was catching AC in the closing laps when the leader goes into just fast enough to keep the win without crashing mode. He will learn. Hopefully he learns how to keep your cool. He’s a very good rider.
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9
agn5009
Posts
6747
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Location
State College, PA, USA
6/3/2019 7:19am
CPR wrote:
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here! So here's the rule: i. A...
After a total of 8 pages of whinging and bitching there's only a few valid fact driven comments in here!
So here's the rule:
i. A rider leaving the course may continue the race by properly re-entering the track at the closest safe point to where the rider left the course without gaining an advantage.

1. While off course the rider may not accelerate in an unsafe manner.

2. If a rider accelerates in an unsafe manner while off course or cuts part of the race course, the rider may be determined to have gained an advantage without gaining a position.

3. It will be the duty of the Race Director or his designee to make the determination as to whether a rider gained an advantage by leaving the racecourse and re-entering.

4. The penalty for gaining an advantage while off course during a race will be the loss of number of positions gained plus one additional position in the final results for that race. If no positions were gained, the penalty will be the loss of one position in the final results for that race.

So watch the race footage and GoPro above and decide.

For what it's worth, I think;
Rule 1. AC did accelerate hard up the hill, unsafe though? Probably not but who decides? Nearest flaggy may say unsafe, race director watching a video declares safe.
Rule 2. Is so open to interpretation it's not funny! Did AC gain advantage by accelerating? Watch the GoPro above and see how far he is behind JC when he goes off track then he jumps back on in front of JC- is that gained advantage? Yes.
Rule 3. Again totally open to interpretation and therefore bias.
Rule 4. At worst AC gets awarded 2nd.

It's not about Cooper being a douche and whatever he did after the incident is irrelevant. What AC did in slowing down after coming back on is irrelevant by the rules but sounds like the AMA took it into account in their ruling. My guess is AC knew he came back on too early so redressed it by slowing but if the rules are black & white that doesn't change anything.
Bottom line; the rules have too many gray areas and the AMA doesn't make consistent concise rulings. But it's done now, bring on the next round, this could get interesting!
Which is what we like right?
agn5009 wrote:
Man, you’re really stretching hard just to not admit you’ve been wrong this whole time. AC went off the track, clearly looked around for the quickest...
Man, you’re really stretching hard just to not admit you’ve been wrong this whole time. AC went off the track, clearly looked around for the quickest place to re enter, couldn’t find one, went to the other end of the turn, still couldn’t find one, accelerated over top banners to re enter the track as it was his only option, backed off a fair amount from Cooper, continued on with his race.

That is exactly what happened. If you can’t see or acknowledge all that from the go pro video then you simply have an ulterior motive here rather than truly admitting what happened.
CPR wrote:
Reading and comprehension aren't your strong points are they?
I’m going to assume articulation isn’t your strong point Laughing
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