Does Gallagher Penalize Webb?

jonesaustin
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3/17/2019 5:14pm
Who would recklessly make that move on purpose. It happened, and he made the best of it.
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downard254
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3/17/2019 5:34pm
Just a question to ask yourself if you think Webb did gain an advantage. In comparison to his actual course up to and through the turn, here’s a couple honest questions.
1. If Webb hadn’t cross rutted and lost control, would his speed and trajectory been faster, slower, or the same.
2. If Webb had been inches to the right of the tuff block and not cross rutted the jump before, would he have entered the turn at a slower, faster, or indifferent pace.
3. If Webb hadn’t run over the top of the tuff block, then again would his speed entering the turn been faster, slower, or the same as if he hadn’t run over a tuff block.

It’s my opinion (not calling it a fact like some others) that if Webb had executed the jump prior to the turn without crossrutting, and held tight to the inside of the turn, his elapsed time to the point of corner pivot would have been nearly identical to a rider cross rutting, nearly losing control, landing on and running over a tuff block, and pivoting in the turn. I honestly just can’t see how his episode through that turn was faster than a well executed corner entry.
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disbanded
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3/17/2019 5:36pm
Has anybody even considered asking the tuff block what it thinks about the whole situation?
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Moto man
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3/17/2019 5:42pm
Should he? Yes. Will he? No. Webb is on a KTM so it won’t happen. Sad.
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The Shop

Frank
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3/17/2019 5:46pm
WoodsRacer wrote:
You have to be crazy to penalize Webb for this.... But I guess we are dealing with Gallagher here so anything crazy is possible...
GuyB wrote:
But it’s also what the OP is ASKING FOR.

For the record, I think the idea of penalizing him for this is beyond dumb.

Thank you.
bvm111
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3/17/2019 6:17pm
I’m still confused at what the issue is Dizzy Blink
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Crush
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3/17/2019 6:30pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 8:08pm
Matthes said on Twitter he talked to kawi and they didn't care. I'm pretty sure they were more concerned about the fact that their rider was...
Matthes said on Twitter he talked to kawi and they didn't care. I'm pretty sure they were more concerned about the fact that their rider was so far off the pace and faded from second to fourth. To say webb should be penalized for a mistake is ridiculous. He stayed to the right of the robot cam by a large margin and was in the center of the berm when he landed. Get over it vitards
That's more crazy than anything to me.

You fucking protest as a matter of principle. Edit: You gotta do anything you can to win right?
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dkg
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3/17/2019 7:02pm
After looking at the pictures posted here, looks like Webb may have gained a minor distance advantage offset by a speed disadvantage of encountering the blocks. Someone good at math could probably figure it out. Looking at this situation I don’t see it as a penalty. Team Kawasaki seems to agree. More importantly there are obviously hyper-technical rule interpretations that could generate a penalty where none should be given. Thankfully the racers, teams and officiants seem to have the sense not to go down that path. I’d say they got it right this time.
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500guy
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3/17/2019 7:55pm
Crush wrote:
That's more crazy than anything to me.

You fucking protest as a matter of principle. Edit: You gotta do anything you can to win right?
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet Decoster would have.
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Crush
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3/17/2019 8:09pm
500guy wrote:
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet...
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet Decoster would have.
Fucking oath he would. Regardless of the result you gotta get on to them about it so that they are keeping an eye out. That's missing the ball to me.
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agn5009
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3/17/2019 8:23pm
Crush wrote:
That's more crazy than anything to me.

You fucking protest as a matter of principle. Edit: You gotta do anything you can to win right?
500guy wrote:
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet...
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet Decoster would have.
Maybe the guys at Kawasaki simply don’t agree with your Opinion. Maybe they don’t believe Webb should have been penalized thus they didn’t protest.
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brocster
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3/17/2019 8:36pm
WoodsRacer wrote:
You have to be crazy to penalize Webb for this.... But I guess we are dealing with Gallagher here so anything crazy is possible...
GuyB wrote:
But it’s also what the OP is ASKING FOR.

For the record, I think the idea of penalizing him for this is beyond dumb.

Frank wrote:
Thank you.
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot, no harm no foul. I fuggin think not! Cutting the track is cutting the track plain and simple and if Kawasaki doesn’t protest they are the dumb ones. Nothing against Tomac or Webb it’s a matter of principal. Webb unintentionally shortened the distance around the track by going inside the markers. Period!
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Jason123
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3/17/2019 9:08pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 9:09pm
Do many people on this site actually race? It doesn't appear that way. Webb even avoided contact......
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GuyB
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3/17/2019 9:12pm
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little better idea of how close Cooper Webb got to robo-cam. That could have been a season-ender.


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toomanykaws
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3/17/2019 9:13pm
I am ready for the nationals to start. Tracks been so so this SX season. Least outdoors. All sorts room to haul ass and pass.
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GuyB
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3/17/2019 9:15pm
brocster wrote:
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot...
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot, no harm no foul. I fuggin think not! Cutting the track is cutting the track plain and simple and if Kawasaki doesn’t protest they are the dumb ones. Nothing against Tomac or Webb it’s a matter of principal. Webb unintentionally shortened the distance around the track by going inside the markers. Period!
Anyone that attempts that is likely going to be on the ground with no holeshot.
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3/17/2019 9:21pm
GuyB wrote:
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little...
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little better idea of how close Cooper Webb got to robo-cam. That could have been a season-ender.


How would it be a season ender? You don't get injured as long as you don't crash ON PURPOSE
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Crush
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3/17/2019 9:42pm
Crush wrote:
That's more crazy than anything to me.

You fucking protest as a matter of principle. Edit: You gotta do anything you can to win right?
500guy wrote:
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet...
Maybe it's me but Kawasaki and Eli almost seem like they don't want to win. Most Teams would have been down there raising hell, I bet Decoster would have.
agn5009 wrote:
Maybe the guys at Kawasaki simply don’t agree with your Opinion. Maybe they don’t believe Webb should have been penalized thus they didn’t protest.
Even so, you protest in case you can improve your riders chance.
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3/17/2019 9:44pm
brocster wrote:
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot...
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot, no harm no foul. I fuggin think not! Cutting the track is cutting the track plain and simple and if Kawasaki doesn’t protest they are the dumb ones. Nothing against Tomac or Webb it’s a matter of principal. Webb unintentionally shortened the distance around the track by going inside the markers. Period!
GuyB wrote:
Anyone that attempts that is likely going to be on the ground with no holeshot.
Agreed most riders would be on the ground if they tried that, but what happens if they get lucky like Webb and pull it off?
3/17/2019 10:15pm
GuyB wrote:
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little...
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little better idea of how close Cooper Webb got to robo-cam. That could have been a season-ender.


If Tomac had cut down they would have had a head on and could have been a season ender for both..
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle
Etc
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3/17/2019 10:16pm
GuyB wrote:
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little...
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little better idea of how close Cooper Webb got to robo-cam. That could have been a season-ender.


If Tomac had cut down they would have had a head on and could have been a season ender for both..
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle
Etc
Mit12
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3/17/2019 10:35pm
You have to be a over the top Tomac’s fan to even begin to think that what Webb did was an advantage. The AMA, the FIM, Tomac and FELD are happy that Webb was a good enough rider to be able to get stopped with out t boning Tomac into the hospital and out of the series.
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brlatm
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3/17/2019 11:05pm
brocster wrote:
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot...
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot, no harm no foul. I fuggin think not! Cutting the track is cutting the track plain and simple and if Kawasaki doesn’t protest they are the dumb ones. Nothing against Tomac or Webb it’s a matter of principal. Webb unintentionally shortened the distance around the track by going inside the markers. Period!
GuyB wrote:
Anyone that attempts that is likely going to be on the ground with no holeshot.
Slicing thru the tuff blocks and pulling the holey worked for Jason Lawrence in Daytona one year. No penalty handed down.
bvm111
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3/17/2019 11:08pm

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3/17/2019 11:57pm
GuyB wrote:
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little...
Disclaimer: Here's a crappy, out-of-focus photo that I shot on Saturday night. This gives you a little different angle of it, which gives you a little better idea of how close Cooper Webb got to robo-cam. That could have been a season-ender.


How would it be a season ender? You don't get injured as long as you don't crash ON PURPOSE
Literally noone has said anything like that, but nice victim mentality
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scrallex
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3/18/2019 4:34am
brocster wrote:
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot...
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot, no harm no foul. I fuggin think not! Cutting the track is cutting the track plain and simple and if Kawasaki doesn’t protest they are the dumb ones. Nothing against Tomac or Webb it’s a matter of principal. Webb unintentionally shortened the distance around the track by going inside the markers. Period!
GuyB wrote:
Anyone that attempts that is likely going to be on the ground with no holeshot.
Does that mean that if it does happen and they don't end up on the ground - it's legitimate?

In other words, going off track and gaining an advantage (in this case, advancing a position) is only justified if the excursion taken off the track had a high probability of going badly?

I know it's a moot point now as not even Kawi is pursuing it but I seriously think this sets a bad precedent where riders don't have to acknowledge that going off the track is an issue that requires that they assure nobody will assume they gained an advantage. Any gray area is the fault of the rider as they are the only one capable of mitigating the advantage at the time of the incident. I can point to a specific amateur Kawi rider that did something similar at the '17 MEC All Stars class in their final moto where he went off the track, cut the inside of the corner and just pulled back onto the track in first gaining about 2-3 bike lengths during his whole "mistake."

I don't care who you are or what you finish, if you're the type of person that rolls off the throttle to show that you're not trying to gain an advantage from these types of situations, I'll root for you. It points more towards your character.
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Airick
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3/18/2019 4:58am
Looked like good luck to me.
RonJon
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3/18/2019 5:28am
At the end of the day a position wasn't gained as a result of the cross rut. You can argue all day that he wouldn't have had trajectory in the corner without the mistake which may or may not be true. I think he would have had that same run if he dove inside like he intended, if anything he would have had more speed because he wouldn't have clipped a tuff block. If you watch the video he did not block Eli's line, they are clearly in two different ruts. You could make the case that Coop ran him high but it looks like Eli planned on taking that outside rut because he knew coop was coming inside (with or without the mistake). It's too much of a grey area. I think the AMA made the right call.
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BikeGuy321
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3/18/2019 6:42am Edited Date/Time 3/18/2019 6:55am
Giving third place back to Tomac when he finished like 15 seconds behind Webb would be a way bigger injustice than what Webb "got away with." If Tomac had battled with, and finished close behind Webb, then reviewing Webb's snafu would be fair. Given that Tomac finished in a different time zone than the top 3, reviewing the pass would be ridiculous.
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USA
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Fantasy
3/18/2019 6:57am
brocster wrote:
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot...
So if a rider on the inside of the start gets pushed further inside he can just slice through the tuff blocks and pull the holeshot, no harm no foul. I fuggin think not! Cutting the track is cutting the track plain and simple and if Kawasaki doesn’t protest they are the dumb ones. Nothing against Tomac or Webb it’s a matter of principal. Webb unintentionally shortened the distance around the track by going inside the markers. Period!
GuyB wrote:
Anyone that attempts that is likely going to be on the ground with no holeshot.
I seem to recall Cianciarulo being in a position like this last year, I forget which SX race, maybe Anaheim? Cut/got pushed inside on the first corner and wheelied right over a tuffblox to come out in a decent position. No penalty there if I do remember
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