Does Gallagher Penalize Webb?

tingo
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tingo
Edited Date/Time 3/18/2019 8:15am
Still not sure why the other thread got flushed (unless some posts were clipped that I couldn’t see, which is entirely plausible), but I’d like to see this topic NOT go away until it’s addressed by the AMA. So, avoid the name calling and keep this out of the dumbgeon.

A lot of posters mentioned that it was an accident or that Webb didn’t intend to make the pass in the fashion he did. The rule book doesn’t make a provision for intent. Even so, I’ll suggest that the entire reason Webb cross-rutted to begin with is because he was intentionally changing his line to jump to the inside of Tomac. He got a bit more than he bargained for, and was both lucky and skillful to not crash.

Many of you also mentioned that, if anything, Webb should be docked 5-10 seconds. Again, the rule book is clear on what the penalty is: positions, not time.

Webb went off track. He gained an advantage because of it (again, he could not have gone that far inside Tomac if it weren’t for cutting the corner), and IMO that advantage resulted in a position being gained. Even if Gallagher (at his sole discretion) determines that Webb did NOT gain a position, he definitely gained an advantage (that immediately resulted in a pass), and them rules is clear that gaining and advantage equals a position being docked. One could argue that Webb likely would have made that pass anyways by block-passing Tomac, but that’s pure speculation and NOT what happened.

It doesn’t matter who you’re a fan of, given the facts of the situation, the rule book is pretty clear cut on what should happen. Ball is in your court, AMA.
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whateversclever69 3/17/2019 6:01am
3/17/2019 6:01am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 6:26am
Very snitchy of you.

Tomac lost 15 seconds to Webb after he got caught and passed by Baggett and Webb. Get over it.
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biscuit11
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biscuit11 3/17/2019 6:07am
3/17/2019 6:07am
The rulebook seems pretty clear and nothing in the rules says if it is accidental then it is ok. When Cooper realized he cut and made the pass he should have fallen back in line on the next straight. Its black and white in my opinion, clear as day...
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1down5up
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1down5up 3/17/2019 6:15am
3/17/2019 6:15am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 6:16am
webb is lucky he came out of that incident unscaved.no penalty .
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1down5up
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1down5up 3/17/2019 6:17am
3/17/2019 6:17am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 6:19am
freeze it @1:06
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 6:17am
3/17/2019 6:17am
He cut the track and gained a position. Should be docked. Thems the rules. It’s black and white.
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T-Fish
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T-Fish 3/17/2019 6:22am
3/17/2019 6:22am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 6:25am
I say no penalty. Webb was going to be coming out of that corner ahead of Eli, mistake or not. I’d almost argue that hitting the blocks saved Tomac from getting cleaned out.
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BobPA
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BobPA 3/17/2019 6:24am
3/17/2019 6:24am
Squirrelings wrote:
He cut the track and gained a position. Should be docked. Thems the rules. It’s black and white.
But he didn’t gain a position while being off track. I agree, without that cross rut he doesn’t make the pass. Tough call there, happy I’m not Gallagher.
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DF313
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DF313 3/17/2019 6:25am
3/17/2019 6:25am
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass in that turn. But, you never know what might have happened, but what did happen looks like he did enter the track in front of Tomac, on accident.



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early
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early 3/17/2019 6:26am
3/17/2019 6:26am
Here's the rulebook again so everyone can know the way the rule is written when forming an opinion.

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tingo
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tingo 3/17/2019 6:28am
3/17/2019 6:28am
whateversclever69 wrote:
Very snitchy of you.

Tomac lost 15 seconds to Webb after he got caught and passed by Baggett and Webb. Get over it.
Very first reply and the very first name called. much ty.

Yes, Tomac got dropped, but that’s irrelevant.
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davis224
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davis224 3/17/2019 6:29am
3/17/2019 6:29am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 6:37am
After watching the replay on YouTube, he didn't even go a full tuff block "off track", he landed on top of them. I find it very hard to call it "cutting the track", and I'm rooting against Webb.

Edit: watched it a few more times, and he did land on the white line and miss 1 tuff block. If I were Tomac, I would feel petty for protesting that. Yes, he was outside of the track markers for about 3 feet. You can argue the pass wouldn't have been made in that corner if he didn't get shot off at that angle and technically you'd have a case, but man... petty.
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ShipLap
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ShipLap 3/17/2019 6:30am
3/17/2019 6:30am
He accidentally clipped a tuff block--I don't see a problem with this pass. Much ado about nothing.
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WCRider
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WCRider 3/17/2019 6:36am
3/17/2019 6:36am
This is not the way i would like to beat Webb or getting closer to him at the championship but rules is rules I guess.
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WoodsRacer 3/17/2019 6:38am
3/17/2019 6:38am
You have to be crazy to penalize Webb for this.... But I guess we are dealing with Gallagher here so anything crazy is possible...
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Forty
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Forty 3/17/2019 6:40am
3/17/2019 6:40am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 6:42am
Wow.

Webb got out of shape and it could have been worse for him and Eli.

There is nothing here.
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just James
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just James 3/17/2019 6:42am
3/17/2019 6:42am
Had Tomac not clamped on the binders, Webb would not have passed him at that point. Yes, I know why Tomac hit the brakes, and I think he was smart to do so in that situation.
If Webb had not regained control when he did, he probably would have taken himself and Tomac out with an unintentional t-bone.
Was Webb trying to dive inside of Tomac in that corner? Probably so, but he certainly did not intentionally land where he did.
Like I said, Webb gained from what happened, but he wouldn't have if Eli hadn't braked.
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 6:45am
3/17/2019 6:45am
T-Fish wrote:
I say no penalty. Webb was going to be coming out of that corner ahead of Eli, mistake or not. I’d almost argue that hitting the...
I say no penalty. Webb was going to be coming out of that corner ahead of Eli, mistake or not. I’d almost argue that hitting the blocks saved Tomac from getting cleaned out.
No he wasn’t. And if he was, there’s no way you’d know, since he cut the track.
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Premix
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Premix 3/17/2019 6:47am
3/17/2019 6:47am
Hell no. He didn’t even make contact. Great riding by cooper to save it.
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chrisg19
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chrisg19 3/17/2019 6:50am
3/17/2019 6:50am
No penalty. He jumped in to a tough block. Riders try to avoid them, I just can’t see him wanting to make that move. He was lucky not to go cartwheeling through that corner. Besides that if you want to get technical he didn’t gain a position until he was back on track, and making the corner. The rules no longer say you must re-enter where you left the track, so him coming back on where he did was legal. After Tomac through anchor and lost 15 seconds to him, it would be a sahme to see him lose a position to Tomac. That’s just my opinion, and we will see what if anything ever comes of this,
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yak651
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yak651 3/17/2019 6:51am
3/17/2019 6:51am
Think the Eli fans need to worry more about why he got dropped after a good start (the excuse for why he hasn't had a good year, no good starts) than penalizing someone that landed on a tuff block (how did he cut the track if the tuff block marks the track and he was on top of the tuff block?).
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Andy_Greenney 3/17/2019 6:52am
3/17/2019 6:52am
Vital: the AMA decision making is joke, no consistency

Also Vital: he barely cut the track and would have beaten Tomac anyway
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gt80rider
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gt80rider 3/17/2019 6:54am
3/17/2019 6:54am
Ya..... Some of the riders know the AMA is a joke, so they use that to their advantage....

Dude didn't go all the way around a corner.... And made a pass because of it....
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downard254
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downard254 3/17/2019 7:00am
3/17/2019 7:00am
It’s almost similar to a blue flag situation. Like Hannah would say, “there’s a race going on, and you’re not in it” would almost apply to the way Tomac finished out that race against the top three. Had Tomac even been relevant to the top three from that point on, I’d consider a penalty, but the way he threw out the anchor, I’d let it go. Cool
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 7:01am
3/17/2019 7:01am
I thought the VBT wanted transparency? But, all of a sudden, it’s ok to cut corners without penalty because, “Tomac faded” and “Eli fans have more to worry about”. That’s some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read.
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Crush
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Crush 3/17/2019 7:07am
3/17/2019 7:07am
Don’t particularly care but not sure you can argue Coop has the positioning to make the pass without that angle. He was really really inside.

Accidental doesn’t matter.

But assume with out a protest it doesn’t either.

Sure Eli dropped back but if I’m Kawi I protest out of principal.
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yak651
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yak651 3/17/2019 7:07am
3/17/2019 7:07am
Squirrelings wrote:
I thought the VBT wanted transparency? But, all of a sudden, it’s ok to cut corners without penalty because, “Tomac faded” and “Eli fans have more...
I thought the VBT wanted transparency? But, all of a sudden, it’s ok to cut corners without penalty because, “Tomac faded” and “Eli fans have more to worry about”. That’s some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever read.
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Dan541 3/17/2019 7:09am
3/17/2019 7:09am
The angle he came in at, was not possible without cutting the corner. It's pretty simple. Accident or not is irrelevant. If he would of slowed down, let Tomac go first and then passed him, he would of been fine, but he kept racing, which should be penalized. If cutting a corner and making a pass because of it, is NOT considered gaining an advantage, then the AMA simply does not use the English language when determining penalties... which is very possible lol.
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 7:09am
3/17/2019 7:09am
downard254 wrote:
It’s almost similar to a blue flag situation. Like Hannah would say, “there’s a race going on, and you’re not in it” would almost apply to...
It’s almost similar to a blue flag situation. Like Hannah would say, “there’s a race going on, and you’re not in it” would almost apply to the way Tomac finished out that race against the top three. Had Tomac even been relevant to the top three from that point on, I’d consider a penalty, but the way he threw out the anchor, I’d let it go. Cool
What happened before and after the situation has absolutely nothing to do with the decision that should be made. Stuff like this is why a Supercross is a joke. Hopefully Gallagher is smarter than you.
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yak651
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yak651 3/17/2019 7:19am
3/17/2019 7:19am
DF313 wrote:
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass...
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass in that turn. But, you never know what might have happened, but what did happen looks like he did enter the track in front of Tomac, on accident.



You forgot to post the next couple of frames where he was able to pivot and turn without hitting Eli and then pass him
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 7:20am
3/17/2019 7:20am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 7:24am
DF313 wrote:
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass...
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass in that turn. But, you never know what might have happened, but what did happen looks like he did enter the track in front of Tomac, on accident.



yak651 wrote:
You forgot to post the next couple of frames where he was able to pivot and turn without hitting Eli and then pass him
Get real dude. Tomac wouldn’t have had to check up if Webb hadn’t cut the corner. Take your KTM/Webb blinders off.
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