Full Tilt TM Racing Two Stroke Build(s) Update: Dirt Magazine "Two Stroke Tuesday"

12/23/2018 2:51pm
Has anyone played much with the jetting on the 144 ?
I see one of the mags that tested a 16 bike had gone richer on needle and main .... I have the EN and I’m sure you could fatten it up a bit for some more torque ...... any experience anyone’s had success with would be great to hear
philG
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GB
12/23/2018 3:35pm
We had a set seize on a 14 build we did, guy said it wasnt fast so we sent him a 16 we had, and i had the 14, its was shit slow, cables were seized. modded now, not a problem any more,
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
12/23/2018 4:07pm
Some pics of the finished rear shock with the OEM Yamaha Ti spring.

With a slight mod to the lower end of the spring these titanium springs fit the TM's like a glove. We tested a bunch of different ones so I have four different rates to try. I picked up a few of these springs for as little as $50 on eBay.








4
12/24/2018 3:21am
After riding it, my only issue was the heavy clutch compared to my Husky 125.

I tried lighter clutch springs which did help but it was still heavy. With a little digging, I found the Brembo clutch master cylinder has a 10mm piston, whereas the ones on a KTM has a 9mm piston. This allows for the same force on the lever equating to more pressure applied through the hose.

Picked up a new OEM setup from KTM - direct replacement and wow!!! What a huge difference. Can’t wait to get out and ride it again now. Part number from KTM for anyone interested: 79202030044

4

The Shop

12/24/2018 3:39am
I just asked them and yes they are still available for 75€/pair including free shipping whitin europe. Did not ask about shipping cost to the US.
I might look into getting 2 sets. What is the best way to contact them?
I did it thru messenger on facebook but you can send them an email thru their website.
cdoggy81
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St. Petersburg, FL, USA
12/24/2018 5:40pm
BD - I can’t tell from the pic but do you the little black plastic piece for those yz springs? I have heard several people say they are a must with those springs. I run them on all of mine & have never tried them without but friends have said the shock feels off when theirs was broken or not installed.
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
12/24/2018 7:15pm
After riding it, my only issue was the heavy clutch compared to my Husky 125. I tried lighter clutch springs which did help but it was...
After riding it, my only issue was the heavy clutch compared to my Husky 125.

I tried lighter clutch springs which did help but it was still heavy. With a little digging, I found the Brembo clutch master cylinder has a 10mm piston, whereas the ones on a KTM has a 9mm piston. This allows for the same force on the lever equating to more pressure applied through the hose.

Picked up a new OEM setup from KTM - direct replacement and wow!!! What a huge difference. Can’t wait to get out and ride it again now. Part number from KTM for anyone interested: 79202030044

I have heard that from several riders in regards to the clutch pull.

I may give that a try myself.
blackdiamond
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12/24/2018 7:22pm
cdoggy81 wrote:
BD - I can’t tell from the pic but do you the little black plastic piece for those yz springs? I have heard several people say...
BD - I can’t tell from the pic but do you the little black plastic piece for those yz springs? I have heard several people say they are a must with those springs. I run them on all of mine & have never tried them without but friends have said the shock feels off when theirs was broken or not installed.
I have run them before without the pieces and without problems but some may feel they are necessary? I am not sure why the Yamaha spring would be any different than various other springs but I have been wrong before.

Hopefully someone can chime in that knows far more about suspension than I do.
Helda
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9/17/2018
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AU
12/24/2018 11:11pm Edited Date/Time 12/24/2018 11:13pm
Geez those footpeg mounts are nice and cheap, RaceTech want $450us for jap ones
Bearuno
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AU
12/25/2018 4:12am
I have run them before without the pieces and without problems but some may feel they are necessary? I am not sure why the Yamaha spring...
I have run them before without the pieces and without problems but some may feel they are necessary? I am not sure why the Yamaha spring would be any different than various other springs but I have been wrong before.

Hopefully someone can chime in that knows far more about suspension than I do.
It's a safety measure on Yamaha's part.

Besides the lower density of Ti, with regards to weight savings, it's the much , much higher limit of elasticity of Ti that means you can also run much less material in regards to spring coils. A nice Double whammy in weight savings.

A springs' most likely point of failure is at the first full coil contact against the 'dead' spring end - be it a Ti Spring or a more normal spring steel. It's quite a stress raiser. Yamaha, like any major manufacturer, has much more of a tendency to not want to risk part failure - especially 'key part' failure. Those little plastic inserts go a long way to avoiding a failure at that point. Yamaha had quite a few thousand bikes that used the Ti springs, they covered their arse as best they could, and, a damned sight more thoroughly than an aftermarket Ti spring manufacturer generally would. I've seen many, many spring failures on all types of springs over the decades - the vast majority at that point.

Are you sure the spring isn't going to rub the reservoir? The 'beehive' nature of the springs you have fitted (and Ti in general, as they have such widely spaced coils) , have much more of a OD 'growth' when compressed, than straight sided springs.
2
blackdiamond
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12/25/2018 1:51pm
Bearuno wrote:
It's a safety measure on Yamaha's part. Besides the lower density of Ti, with regards to weight savings, it's the much , much higher limit of...
It's a safety measure on Yamaha's part.

Besides the lower density of Ti, with regards to weight savings, it's the much , much higher limit of elasticity of Ti that means you can also run much less material in regards to spring coils. A nice Double whammy in weight savings.

A springs' most likely point of failure is at the first full coil contact against the 'dead' spring end - be it a Ti Spring or a more normal spring steel. It's quite a stress raiser. Yamaha, like any major manufacturer, has much more of a tendency to not want to risk part failure - especially 'key part' failure. Those little plastic inserts go a long way to avoiding a failure at that point. Yamaha had quite a few thousand bikes that used the Ti springs, they covered their arse as best they could, and, a damned sight more thoroughly than an aftermarket Ti spring manufacturer generally would. I've seen many, many spring failures on all types of springs over the decades - the vast majority at that point.

Are you sure the spring isn't going to rub the reservoir? The 'beehive' nature of the springs you have fitted (and Ti in general, as they have such widely spaced coils) , have much more of a OD 'growth' when compressed, than straight sided springs.
The reservoir clearance is going to be really close. I was looking at it more closely yesterday and I am going to test it but I may need to clearance the cooling fins on the back side of the reservoir slightly if needed.
Bearuno
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12/25/2018 4:02pm
If you've access to a press / shock / spring compressor, use it!

You might be surprised / shocked by how much the OD of that spring will grow, when compressed. And, how much they - well, any springs - can tend to compress 'wonky'. Establishing any said 'wonkyness', can help with spring orientation to the reservoir and body, for some milder clearance issues.
philG
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GB
12/27/2018 2:06pm
We ran the Ti spring on the SXV/MXV's we had.. big weight saving.
blackdiamond
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12/28/2018 12:20pm
philG wrote:
We ran the Ti spring on the SXV/MXV's we had.. big weight saving.
Did you run the OEM Yamaha springs or RCS?
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
1/12/2019 9:47pm
Here are a few pics of the 250, it is basically finished. It just needs grips, graphics and a good wash and scotchbrite on the frame spars.

The bike feels really, really light when you lift it off the stand so I am hoping to get it on the scale this week to see what the numbers really look like.







13
H4L
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1/12/2019 9:56pm
BD great job on another excellent build. Anxious to hear a ride report on how she runs & handles.
JMX82
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Hyllykallio, FI
1/13/2019 12:15am
Great build! Can't wait to hear how that beast runs
Barbatos
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BE
1/15/2019 7:42am Edited Date/Time 1/15/2019 9:04am
Here are a few pics of the 250, it is basically finished. It just needs grips, graphics and a good wash and scotchbrite on the frame...
Here are a few pics of the 250, it is basically finished. It just needs grips, graphics and a good wash and scotchbrite on the frame spars.

The bike feels really, really light when you lift it off the stand so I am hoping to get it on the scale this week to see what the numbers really look like.







Hi there BD!

I've been following your build for a while and I'd like to congratulate you for the amazing work you've put in it, you really go the extra mile with these bikes Smile . Anyway, I'm a TM owner myself (currently in the proces of turning a 4 stroke 250 to supermoto spec) and I was wondering why you didn't use the original TM number plate(or a carbon fibre one, lighter and bigger holes to let air into the airbox)? These have holes to let air pass through to the airbox. Also I'd like to offer you my help if you ever need parts or are looking for information or help. I'm based in Belgium and I'm part of almost all the owners groups on facebook and the lot here in Europe, so if you ever need help with a part or with shipping please let me know, I'd gladly help. Some sites (especially the Italian dealer ones) are much cheaper than the other, non italian dealers. Keep up the amazing builds!
1/15/2019 11:53am
On the subject of TM they will not be doing the GPs in 2019 The rumour is they have bought another factory unit and they need the money to get it kitted out with the hope of doubling production in the future If true hope it works for them Always had a soft spot for them after seeing my first one 25 year a go
blackdiamond
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1/15/2019 8:16pm
Barbatos wrote:
Hi there BD! I've been following your build for a while and I'd like to congratulate you for the amazing work you've put in it, you...
Hi there BD!

I've been following your build for a while and I'd like to congratulate you for the amazing work you've put in it, you really go the extra mile with these bikes Smile . Anyway, I'm a TM owner myself (currently in the proces of turning a 4 stroke 250 to supermoto spec) and I was wondering why you didn't use the original TM number plate(or a carbon fibre one, lighter and bigger holes to let air into the airbox)? These have holes to let air pass through to the airbox. Also I'd like to offer you my help if you ever need parts or are looking for information or help. I'm based in Belgium and I'm part of almost all the owners groups on facebook and the lot here in Europe, so if you ever need help with a part or with shipping please let me know, I'd gladly help. Some sites (especially the Italian dealer ones) are much cheaper than the other, non italian dealers. Keep up the amazing builds!
I like the full coverage of the Cycra front plate over the triple clamps and upper for tubes. I think they look better as well. After opening up additional vents in the side panels this bike has the least restricted airbox I have ever seen.

For riding in really muddy conditions the side panels might be a bit too open but I rarely ride in the mud. I am considering putting additional openings in the front plate as well.
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
1/17/2019 4:49pm
I had to remove the clutch cover on the 250 the other day and I was able to get a look at the clutch internals.

It's impressive to see the small details TM pays attention to that help with clutch oiling and cooling.




1
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
1/19/2019 1:22pm
Once these bikes are broken in I am going to test these forged Wossner pistons. Usually the Wossner parts are just a bit lighter than stock but I have not weighed the stock TM pistons so I am not sure if that's the case just yet.


2
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
1/26/2019 12:22am
I finally got around to finishing the silencer for the 250. This one took some time because I had to fab the brackets from scratch. My friend Matt G took care of the welding duties and I just did the finish work.

Now it fits much better than the Pro Circuit one did. For some reason the mounting brackets on the PC silencer weren't even close to working with the stock pipe?

Here a few pics of the process and the finished product.













2
mwr
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USA
1/26/2019 2:39am
The Pro Circuit silencer only fits the Pro Circuit pipe. If you got it directly from PC, the catalog page said so. If you got it from TM Racing USA, they should have told you.
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
1/26/2019 10:37am
I got it from Ralf at TM but we never really talked about it.
blackdiamond
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Grapevine, TX, USA
1/27/2019 8:52pm
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a nicer finish on it. After the welding and machine work we did it will need to be anodized again.

The teeth on this thing are really, really sharp.








2
DJV804
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Albertville, MN, USA
1/27/2019 9:05pm
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a...
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a nicer finish on it. After the welding and machine work we did it will need to be anodized again.

The teeth on this thing are really, really sharp.








Is that the JGR one?
blackdiamond
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1/27/2019 9:42pm
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a...
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a nicer finish on it. After the welding and machine work we did it will need to be anodized again.

The teeth on this thing are really, really sharp.








DJV804 wrote:
Is that the JGR one?
Yes.
1
DJV804
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Albertville, MN, USA
1/27/2019 9:55pm
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a...
Finished the rear brake pedal with the billet tip today. I just need to test this first, make sure it feels right and then put a nicer finish on it. After the welding and machine work we did it will need to be anodized again.

The teeth on this thing are really, really sharp.








DJV804 wrote:
Is that the JGR one?
Yes.
Nice! Glad that worked out for ya!
blackdiamond
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1/28/2019 1:25am
DJV804 wrote:
Is that the JGR one?
Yes.
DJV804 wrote:
Nice! Glad that worked out for ya!
Yea, I am stoked on this little part, the attention to detail in the machine work is pretty impressive. It required some welding and machining on the end of the brake pedal to make it work but it was worth it!

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