Full Tilt TM Racing Two Stroke Build(s) Update: Dirt Magazine "Two Stroke Tuesday"

blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 9/27/2018 12:15pm
9/27/2018 12:15pm
chuckdavies wrote:
Loving the build so far. That brake tip bolt replacement makes a big difference to the OEM setup! Ti/steel bolt? Strong enough i assume
It's aluminum and because of the design, its plenty strong. Chain ring bolts get a ton of torque applied to them during sprints and they hold up fine.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/4/2018 1:07pm
10/4/2018 1:07pm
Some sweet sprocket hardware from Racetech Titanium that include nyloc flange nuts.






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philG
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philG 10/5/2018 5:35am
10/5/2018 5:35am
Most guys here only run 6 bolts.

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yz133rider
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yz133rider 10/5/2018 9:15am
10/5/2018 9:15am
philG wrote:
Most guys here only run 6 bolts.
If there's 9 there i would think its for a reason thats not a place id play engineer personally
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DJV804
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DJV804 10/5/2018 11:25am
10/5/2018 11:25am
yz133rider wrote:
If there's 9 there i would think its for a reason thats not a place id play engineer personally
It's fine, it's a fairly common mod...even the GP team only runs 6.
speedman
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speedman 10/5/2018 3:52pm
10/5/2018 3:52pm
Nine looks better, and in Ti they are quite close to the weight of six steel ones, aren't they?
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/5/2018 10:34pm
10/5/2018 10:34pm
speedman wrote:
Nine looks better, and in Ti they are quite close to the weight of six steel ones, aren't they?
The weight of Ti is about half the weight of steel so it would be equal to 4.5 steel bolts.

I agree on the six bolt strategy, I think it just looks like the bike is falling apart. If someone made a sprocket with only six mounting points I would custom machine the rear hub to eliminate the other 3 but until that happens I think this will work best.
DJV804
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DJV804 10/5/2018 10:44pm
10/5/2018 10:44pm
speedman wrote:
Nine looks better, and in Ti they are quite close to the weight of six steel ones, aren't they?
blackdiamond wrote:
The weight of Ti is about half the weight of steel so it would be equal to 4.5 steel bolts. I agree on the six bolt...
The weight of Ti is about half the weight of steel so it would be equal to 4.5 steel bolts.

I agree on the six bolt strategy, I think it just looks like the bike is falling apart. If someone made a sprocket with only six mounting points I would custom machine the rear hub to eliminate the other 3 but until that happens I think this will work best.
I could be wrong or just a difference in vendors, but all my Ti from RaceTech and Mettec is about 2/3 of steel, the aluminum is usuallly right around half or just under.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/6/2018 12:04am
10/6/2018 12:04am
DJV804 wrote:
I could be wrong or just a difference in vendors, but all my Ti from RaceTech and Mettec is about 2/3 of steel, the aluminum is...
I could be wrong or just a difference in vendors, but all my Ti from RaceTech and Mettec is about 2/3 of steel, the aluminum is usuallly right around half or just under.
If the design of the part is exactly the same as the original part the general rule of thumb is that titanium weighs about 45% less than steel and aluminum weighs about 60% less. Different alloys of all three materials will change these numbers slightly.

Keep in mind that many titanium or aluminum parts use more material in certain high stress areas therefore negating some of the weight savings because of the material alone.
DJV804
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DJV804 10/6/2018 1:08am
10/6/2018 1:08am
DJV804 wrote:
I could be wrong or just a difference in vendors, but all my Ti from RaceTech and Mettec is about 2/3 of steel, the aluminum is...
I could be wrong or just a difference in vendors, but all my Ti from RaceTech and Mettec is about 2/3 of steel, the aluminum is usuallly right around half or just under.
blackdiamond wrote:
If the design of the part is exactly the same as the original part the general rule of thumb is that titanium weighs about 45% less...
If the design of the part is exactly the same as the original part the general rule of thumb is that titanium weighs about 45% less than steel and aluminum weighs about 60% less. Different alloys of all three materials will change these numbers slightly.

Keep in mind that many titanium or aluminum parts use more material in certain high stress areas therefore negating some of the weight savings because of the material alone.
Right, I'm talking about just my standard m6's for the engine covers and m8's in the chassis though. Nothing specialty at all. but they maybe use a different alloy that's a little heavier. ??‍♂️
philG
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philG 10/13/2018 4:15am
10/13/2018 4:15am
The beauty of the TM 9 bolt set up is that you can get on all of them with a socket from the other side, no having to grind down a ring spanner to miss spokes, or use an open ender.
philG
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philG 10/13/2018 4:52am
10/13/2018 4:52am
philG wrote:
Most guys here only run 6 bolts.
yz133rider wrote:
If there's 9 there i would think its for a reason thats not a place id play engineer personally
The 9 is there because that is what the spoke pattern dictates, look at where the spokes are relative to the bolts.

Bonus is you can do 3 wheels with 2 sets of bolts.

On our TM300 SMX's we had Marzocchi forks with 108mm foot, that needed a Husqvarna fitment wheel , and we had 3 sets of Husky wheels, so we sold the stockers, for more than you can buy a set of aftermarket wheels.

All the wheels fit , with no need to have oddball 9 bolt sprockets , which are dearer.

For MX we run the stock wheels because you never change the gearing
chuckdavies
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chuckdavies 10/18/2018 3:01pm
10/18/2018 3:01pm
blackdiamond wrote:
When I took the radiators off the bike to have them modified I couldn't help but notice how ugly those bright blue radiator louvers were. I...
When I took the radiators off the bike to have them modified I couldn't help but notice how ugly those bright blue radiator louvers were. I was determined to change them to white or black for a more subtle look but there doesn't seem to be too many options out there. When I took the louvers off I noticed there were tiny KTM logos on them. With a little research I found that KTM's from the early 2000's used the same part. I found some NOS louvers on eBay for $10 each.

I think they look a lot cleaner? Too much blue on these bikes is overload.




Do you have a part number for these louvres please?

Dropped an order on a 2019 TM 125 today after testing one last week! Very impressed when I rode it, but exciting change too after 3 years on Husky and Hondas before that. 3-4 weeks until it’s built/landed in the UK then the parts collecting can begin!
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blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/18/2018 10:41pm
10/18/2018 10:41pm
chuckdavies wrote:
Do you have a part number for these louvres please? Dropped an order on a 2019 TM 125 today after testing one last week! Very impressed...
Do you have a part number for these louvres please?

Dropped an order on a 2019 TM 125 today after testing one last week! Very impressed when I rode it, but exciting change too after 3 years on Husky and Hondas before that. 3-4 weeks until it’s built/landed in the UK then the parts collecting can begin!
This should be the correct KTM part number: 54635034200

For some reason both of the right and left I bought on eBay were listed with the same part number but I am assuming only one was correct (because each side is different)

philG
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philG 10/22/2018 1:17pm
10/22/2018 1:17pm
chuckdavies wrote:
Do you have a part number for these louvres please? Dropped an order on a 2019 TM 125 today after testing one last week! Very impressed...
Do you have a part number for these louvres please?

Dropped an order on a 2019 TM 125 today after testing one last week! Very impressed when I rode it, but exciting change too after 3 years on Husky and Hondas before that. 3-4 weeks until it’s built/landed in the UK then the parts collecting can begin!
Finally...


What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for SM
chuckdavies
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chuckdavies 10/23/2018 3:08am
10/23/2018 3:08am
philG wrote:
Finally... What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for...
Finally...


What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for SM
Will have a little play over the winter to see what parts we can come up with, but mainly cosmetic things as it's obvious how good these bikes come out of the crate!

White rad louvres will be one mod (thanks BD), and a load of custom Titanium hardware from Phil/Stevie Denton.

The 2019s actually come with Scalvini pipes now as opposed to HGS. TM Racing USA sent a 2019 125 to PC along with a Scalvini and HGS for them to dyno and are claiming 2hp gains throughout on the new PC pipe over the stock one. Not sure if that's true or not but it'll be worth me testing to see for myself. Potentially a VHM head and a Vforce4R to replace the stock Vforce3 but that will probably do me once she's full of race fuel!

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blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/23/2018 11:20am
10/23/2018 11:20am
philG wrote:
Finally... What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for...
Finally...


What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for SM
chuckdavies wrote:
Will have a little play over the winter to see what parts we can come up with, but mainly cosmetic things as it's obvious how good...
Will have a little play over the winter to see what parts we can come up with, but mainly cosmetic things as it's obvious how good these bikes come out of the crate!

White rad louvres will be one mod (thanks BD), and a load of custom Titanium hardware from Phil/Stevie Denton.

The 2019s actually come with Scalvini pipes now as opposed to HGS. TM Racing USA sent a 2019 125 to PC along with a Scalvini and HGS for them to dyno and are claiming 2hp gains throughout on the new PC pipe over the stock one. Not sure if that's true or not but it'll be worth me testing to see for myself. Potentially a VHM head and a Vforce4R to replace the stock Vforce3 but that will probably do me once she's full of race fuel!
I would be really, really, really surprised if a pipe change made 2hp on a 125 unless it was on a Kart and it was at peak.

Considering how much development work TM does on their 2T engines I am fairly confident the OEM pipe by HGS (or Scalvini) would be tough to beat but that is just my $.02.

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chuckdavies
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chuckdavies 10/24/2018 1:25am
10/24/2018 1:25am
blackdiamond wrote:
I would be really, really, really surprised if a pipe change made 2hp on a 125 unless it was on a Kart and it was at...
I would be really, really, really surprised if a pipe change made 2hp on a 125 unless it was on a Kart and it was at peak.

Considering how much development work TM does on their 2T engines I am fairly confident the OEM pipe by HGS (or Scalvini) would be tough to beat but that is just my $.02.

I'm with you on that one - definitely took the comment with a pinch of salt! I'll test it anyway back-to-back against the stock pipe as it'll be interesting to see.
make1go
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make1go 10/24/2018 6:24am
10/24/2018 6:24am
philG wrote:
The beauty of the TM 9 bolt set up is that you can get on all of them with a socket from the other side, no...
The beauty of the TM 9 bolt set up is that you can get on all of them with a socket from the other side, no having to grind down a ring spanner to miss spokes, or use an open ender.
OR have to pull spokes cause i used new 13mm nyloks, and with the oversized spokes, there was no way i was getting them off with an open ender nor enough width of a ground ring spanner..

lesson learned..
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/24/2018 11:25am
10/24/2018 11:25am
chuckdavies wrote:
I'm with you on that one - definitely took the comment with a pinch of salt! I'll test it anyway back-to-back against the stock pipe as...
I'm with you on that one - definitely took the comment with a pinch of salt! I'll test it anyway back-to-back against the stock pipe as it'll be interesting to see.
Are you going to dyno both pipes or just track test them?
philG
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philG 10/24/2018 11:44am
10/24/2018 11:44am
philG wrote:
Finally... What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for...
Finally...


What are you actually going to buy for it ? VHM Head made the biggest difference on the 300's , and Pro Circuit pipe, for SM
chuckdavies wrote:
Will have a little play over the winter to see what parts we can come up with, but mainly cosmetic things as it's obvious how good...
Will have a little play over the winter to see what parts we can come up with, but mainly cosmetic things as it's obvious how good these bikes come out of the crate!

White rad louvres will be one mod (thanks BD), and a load of custom Titanium hardware from Phil/Stevie Denton.

The 2019s actually come with Scalvini pipes now as opposed to HGS. TM Racing USA sent a 2019 125 to PC along with a Scalvini and HGS for them to dyno and are claiming 2hp gains throughout on the new PC pipe over the stock one. Not sure if that's true or not but it'll be worth me testing to see for myself. Potentially a VHM head and a Vforce4R to replace the stock Vforce3 but that will probably do me once she's full of race fuel!
blackdiamond wrote:
I would be really, really, really surprised if a pipe change made 2hp on a 125 unless it was on a Kart and it was at...
I would be really, really, really surprised if a pipe change made 2hp on a 125 unless it was on a Kart and it was at peak.

Considering how much development work TM does on their 2T engines I am fairly confident the OEM pipe by HGS (or Scalvini) would be tough to beat but that is just my $.02.

We deffo felt the PC pipe was better, on the 300, the HGS seemed to sign off earlier, and the VHM inserts from Heikki can be tailored to your needs.
chuckdavies
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chuckdavies 10/25/2018 1:34am
10/25/2018 1:34am
blackdiamond wrote:
Are you going to dyno both pipes or just track test them?
Most likely just track test - i'll be sure to feedback my thoughts tho if you're interested?
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/25/2018 3:47pm
10/25/2018 3:47pm
philG wrote:
We deffo felt the PC pipe was better, on the 300, the HGS seemed to sign off earlier, and the VHM inserts from Heikki can be...
We deffo felt the PC pipe was better, on the 300, the HGS seemed to sign off earlier, and the VHM inserts from Heikki can be tailored to your needs.
I am in the process of getting a few more custom inserts to try on both bikes as we speak.
blackdiamond
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blackdiamond 10/25/2018 3:50pm
10/25/2018 3:50pm
blackdiamond wrote:
Are you going to dyno both pipes or just track test them?
chuckdavies wrote:
Most likely just track test - i'll be sure to feedback my thoughts tho if you're interested?
I would definitely like to hear how they run. When do you think you will get a chance to test them?
chuckdavies
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chuckdavies 10/26/2018 3:18am
10/26/2018 3:18am
blackdiamond wrote:
I would definitely like to hear how they run. When do you think you will get a chance to test them?
Bike is being built as we speak, should have it with me in the UK in a couple of weeks hopefully.

It's a shame we're heading towards the bad weather period in the UK but if it holds out then i'll try and get a pipe to test before christmas.
Polishhammer 10/27/2018 6:02pm
10/27/2018 6:02pm
philG wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/09/22/288818/s1200_20180831_181748.jpg[/img] I thought we were done with TM's but it appears not.. this arrived the other day.

I thought we were done with TM's but it appears not.. this arrived the other day.
Looks like a pc pipe on the 500? Take it off and put a CPI pipe on it. The pc pipes don’t work well on cr500s from my experience. They’re great on rm250s though. There is a company in Holland called DPR that makes nice pipes for cr500s too. A v force 2 reed system works well if u can find one. The v force 3 doesn’t do very much. There is also a company that sells exhaust manifolds that bolt to the cylinder that are nice. They use orings. You can find them on eBay. A 39.5 or 40mm carb helps with top end. They’re good engines just old. It seems Honda spent years detuning them from the 85.
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philG
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philG 10/28/2018 12:42pm
10/28/2018 12:42pm
Polishhammer wrote:
Looks like a pc pipe on the 500? Take it off and put a CPI pipe on it. The pc pipes don’t work well on cr500s...
Looks like a pc pipe on the 500? Take it off and put a CPI pipe on it. The pc pipes don’t work well on cr500s from my experience. They’re great on rm250s though. There is a company in Holland called DPR that makes nice pipes for cr500s too. A v force 2 reed system works well if u can find one. The v force 3 doesn’t do very much. There is also a company that sells exhaust manifolds that bolt to the cylinder that are nice. They use orings. You can find them on eBay. A 39.5 or 40mm carb helps with top end. They’re good engines just old. It seems Honda spent years detuning them from the 85.
I think the biggest improvement will be putting in a 90.5mm to match the bore rather than the 89.5mm one that was in it... 'rebuilt motor' my fucking arse..

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