Bad news on Alta

newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
newmann 10/20/2018 2:27pm
10/20/2018 2:27pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

What's funny is how some of you only hear what you want to hear.
2
12
zehn
Profile picture for user zehn
Posts
7892
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
zehn 10/20/2018 2:28pm
10/20/2018 2:28pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

This guy gets it.

The other, not so much
3
5
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6433
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
Johnny Depp 10/20/2018 2:28pm
10/20/2018 2:28pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

Great Post. Well said. Thanks. Go Alta!
3
2
peltier626 10/20/2018 2:43pm
10/20/2018 2:43pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

Agreed. We must remain open minded.
1
1

The Shop

See All »
SCR
Profile picture for user SCR
Posts
1107
Joined
12/10/2009
Location
USA
SCR 10/20/2018 2:48pm
10/20/2018 2:48pm
How many guys that posted in this thread own an Alta ?
1
1
zehn
Profile picture for user zehn
Posts
7892
Joined
1/15/2013
Location
Anchorage, AK, USA
zehn 10/20/2018 2:49pm
10/20/2018 2:49pm
SCR wrote:
How many guys that posted in this thread own an Alta ?
I would if I could. If I were going to buy a brand new bike, it would 100% be an MXR. Next would be a Husky 150.
2
1
dboivin
Profile picture for user dboivin
Posts
3176
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI, USA
dboivin 10/20/2018 2:56pm
10/20/2018 2:56pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

i noticed you never mentioned you had a quad in that list of bikes you have....lol
5
1
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
newmann 10/20/2018 3:36pm
10/20/2018 3:36pm Edited Date/Time 10/20/2018 3:38pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

dboivin wrote:
i noticed you never mentioned you had a quad in that list of bikes you have....lol
You also noticed that he owns every type of bike known to man, except for an ... Alta.

But hey, he sure didn’t hesitate to shit on a potential customer did he. Hell of a marketing job he did there.
3
9
mikec265
Profile picture for user mikec265
Posts
1668
Joined
10/19/2015
Location
Edinboro, PA, USA
mikec265 10/21/2018 7:03am
10/21/2018 7:03am
SCR wrote:
How many guys that posted in this thread own an Alta ?
I do. And there's a 125,250, and 500 in my garage.
Then the kids bikes and pit bikes. The Alta MXR is my favorite because it doesn't bother the neighbors. No four stroke big bikes, but if I was serious about racing there would still be a 450 and 250f in my garage like there was for about 10 years. The Alta is way too good to become like that pos Cannondale.
1
Moto96
Profile picture for user Moto96
Posts
668
Joined
8/9/2018
Location
CA
Moto96 10/21/2018 7:07am
10/21/2018 7:07am
The Alta was disappointing out of the hole last night. I really thought that bike would be better off the line, but nope.



2
1
project racer 10/21/2018 7:18am
10/21/2018 7:18am
Would have liked to have seen the Alta run with the 125's a pass or two, just to get a gauge on where it stacked up. Not a solid match for a 250/300 smoker, IMO.
2
2
just James
Profile picture for user just James
Posts
1133
Joined
12/20/2012
Location
Wolf Creek, OR, USA
just James 10/21/2018 8:45am
10/21/2018 8:45am
Moto96 wrote:
The Alta was disappointing out of the hole last night. I really thought that bike would be better off the line, but nope.



Packing a lot more weight than a 250 two stroke, I suspect.
Weight is your enemy when accelerating.
1
Bry145
Profile picture for user Bry145
Posts
366
Joined
6/12/2013
Location
Bridgeville, PA, USA
Bry145 10/21/2018 8:57am
10/21/2018 8:57am
We will have electric dirt bikes from Japan shortly, correct?

If so, Alta may disappear but the concept will live on.

I think the idea of urban/suburban motocross on a safe/basic track could be a lot of fun and a good way to get more people involved. When I lived in Vegas we had KLX110 supermoto races in a parking lot in a suburban park. What a hoot!

Not everyone has the time or spending money to drive and hour to and from NIMBYland to get a moto fix. I have mountain bike trails 5 minutes from my suburban home. I only see my YZ250 when I go to the garage to grab my Kona 134. It costs virtually nothing to ride the MTB. A day of moto is easily $50, and of course one has to earn $80 to spend that $50.

seth505
Profile picture for user seth505
Posts
10214
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA, USA
seth505 10/21/2018 9:29am
10/21/2018 9:29am
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

dboivin wrote:
i noticed you never mentioned you had a quad in that list of bikes you have....lol
newmann wrote:
You also noticed that he owns every type of bike known to man, except for an ... Alta. But hey, he sure didn’t hesitate to shit...
You also noticed that he owns every type of bike known to man, except for an ... Alta.

But hey, he sure didn’t hesitate to shit on a potential customer did he. Hell of a marketing job he did there.
He has Alta(s), don’t you worry.
newmann
Profile picture for user newmann
Posts
24437
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
newmann 10/21/2018 9:32am
10/21/2018 9:32am
Moto96 wrote:
The Alta was disappointing out of the hole last night. I really thought that bike would be better off the line, but nope.



just James wrote:
Packing a lot more weight than a 250 two stroke, I suspect.
Weight is your enemy when accelerating.
20% more weight and 300% more torque?
1
3
TymeMoto
Profile picture for user TymeMoto
Posts
647
Joined
3/1/2017
Location
Beverly Hills, CA, USA
TymeMoto 10/21/2018 9:42am
10/21/2018 9:42am
Moto96 wrote:
The Alta was disappointing out of the hole last night. I really thought that bike would be better off the line, but nope.



It’s because Darryn had to twist the throttle right when the gate dropped, had to be timed perfectly to get a good jump.

Everyone else’s bike was already revved out and when the gate dropped all they had to do was dump the clutch and they had power.

Darryn was by far the slowest guy out of the gate save for maybe the guy on the Beta.
1
Fourth_Floor
Profile picture for user Fourth_Floor
Posts
978
Joined
7/13/2016
Location
Saint Marys, PA, USA
Fourth_Floor 10/21/2018 2:35pm
10/21/2018 2:35pm
If they switched rides and Shane had a few weeks to get dialed in on the Alta, I don't see a different result in that particular match up. A top tier racer beat a guy that isn't. I don't think electric had a whole lot to do with it.

I was hoping and rooting for a good showing from the Alta. With the recent news about the company it would have been cool for a "drop the mic" performance as there's a chance we don't see them at that race again. Didn't happen though. They got put up against the guy that won the event, right off the bat and Shane made the Alta look like dog shit.
3

Pit Row

See All »
CASH476
Profile picture for user CASH476
Posts
631
Joined
2/27/2009
Location
Perth, AU
CASH476 10/21/2018 8:28pm
10/21/2018 8:28pm
Moto96 wrote:
The Alta was disappointing out of the hole last night. I really thought that bike would be better off the line, but nope.



just James wrote:
Packing a lot more weight than a 250 two stroke, I suspect.
Weight is your enemy when accelerating.
newmann wrote:
20% more weight and 300% more torque?
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is the measure of work being done.
1
3
make1go
Profile picture for user make1go
Posts
905
Joined
2/3/2018
Location
BF
make1go 10/21/2018 8:39pm
10/21/2018 8:39pm
newmann wrote:
It’s all about that sound, the sound of nothingness. The e-car and the F1 vid posted earlier sums it all up. Get it it’s own class...
It’s all about that sound, the sound of nothingness. The e-car and the F1 vid posted earlier sums it all up. Get it it’s own class and let it thrive. I already said I am a potential buyer.
you just dont get it,

heres just one aftermarket idea sound systems and sounds you can customise linked to the rpm/throttle its the new pro circuit ti/cf pipe..

we've had a century to develop aftermarket for ice

we're at year dot for electric..

1
4
make1go
Profile picture for user make1go
Posts
905
Joined
2/3/2018
Location
BF
make1go 10/21/2018 8:45pm
10/21/2018 8:45pm
besides women adore electric motors.
it would be their most favorite motor by far.

if you dont get why then you dont get how.
3
gnarwhip
Profile picture for user gnarwhip
Posts
1969
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
gnarwhip 10/21/2018 8:58pm
10/21/2018 8:58pm
I bet if they made a street legal dual sport and moved their headquarters to Palo Alto, they would kill it. All those techy liberals up there would dig it.
R.EX
Profile picture for user R.EX
Posts
85
Joined
7/23/2010
Location
CA
R.EX 10/21/2018 9:08pm
10/21/2018 9:08pm
CASH476 wrote:
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is...
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is the measure of work being done.
That's not how it works. An electric motor has all the power available from 0 RPM. It's all dependent on how quick you turn the throttle, and how the motor controller translates that input to power at the motor.
2
1
Moto96
Profile picture for user Moto96
Posts
668
Joined
8/9/2018
Location
CA
Moto96 10/21/2018 9:21pm
10/21/2018 9:21pm
just James wrote:
Packing a lot more weight than a 250 two stroke, I suspect.
Weight is your enemy when accelerating.
newmann wrote:
20% more weight and 300% more torque?
CASH476 wrote:
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is...
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is the measure of work being done.
How come cars dont have this problem ?

Newmann, watch till the end----Courtesy of Maverick for finding this

5
theycallmeebryan 10/21/2018 10:59pm
10/21/2018 10:59pm
SCR wrote:
How many guys that posted in this thread own an Alta ?
Me.
theycallmeebryan 10/21/2018 11:02pm
10/21/2018 11:02pm
Alex.434 wrote:
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of...
I think one of my favorite things about working in marketing in the motorcycling industry for a decade was constantly watching a small, niche, group of enthusiasts constantly tear themselves apart.

Forget the non-motorcycling public, we do a fantastic job of shitting all over each other. Ride a Harley? Get fucked. Oh you are into crotch rockets? Squid! Motobro? Grow up 909'er. Hipster ass on the hooligan bike cut your hair. Yo electric company, you have no soul eat shit. AND SO ON.

Motorcycling in the United States is a dying industry and partly because the people that partake in it barely muster support for the one tiny discipline they might enjoy, and then have a good time turning their noses up to the rest.

Sad to watch.

I work in the video game / esports industry now, which is MASSIVE beyond belief, and most of the people I work with from pro players to industry workers look at me like I'm a throwback caveman because I ride motorcycles.

My garage has two strokes, four strokes, dual sports, roadracers, supermotos, mx bikes, and trials bikes in it, and they all are a damn good time to ride. I got to ride Alta's a bit, and they too were fantastically fun motorcycles that perfectly fit the needs for many riders.

Sad day for the industry and all those who worked hard on the Alta team (many of which I know). I've decided to drive up to Straight Rhythm tonight because 1) I love two strokes and 2) I wanna root on the Alta team one more time, many of which are there, without pay, helping Darryn out.

Respect.

dboivin wrote:
i noticed you never mentioned you had a quad in that list of bikes you have....lol
newmann wrote:
You also noticed that he owns every type of bike known to man, except for an ... Alta. But hey, he sure didn’t hesitate to shit...
You also noticed that he owns every type of bike known to man, except for an ... Alta.

But hey, he sure didn’t hesitate to shit on a potential customer did he. Hell of a marketing job he did there.
Newman, Alex and his wife had several Alta's at their fingertips, because his wife worked for them.
CASH476
Profile picture for user CASH476
Posts
631
Joined
2/27/2009
Location
Perth, AU
CASH476 10/22/2018 2:10am
10/22/2018 2:10am
CASH476 wrote:
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is...
Yep and no clutch, so off the line it produces very little horsepower until the motor gets some revs up. As we all know horsepower is the measure of work being done.
R.EX wrote:
That's not how it works. An electric motor has all the power available from 0 RPM. It's all dependent on how quick you turn the throttle...
That's not how it works. An electric motor has all the power available from 0 RPM. It's all dependent on how quick you turn the throttle, and how the motor controller translates that input to power at the motor.
You couldn't be more wrong, no rpm means no power.

Even with maximum torque available at 0rpm it is going to need to get some rev's up before it starts producing decent power. This was very evident at RBSR
1
4
Derpin' DJ
Profile picture for user Derpin' DJ
Posts
6414
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle, AU
Derpin' DJ 10/22/2018 3:21am
10/22/2018 3:21am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2018 3:25am
Dunno, you're both kinda wrong.
1) It doesn't have max power at 0 rpm, it has max torque.
2) Yes, power is the measure of the work being done, but not what is being transferred to the ground. You're really after the driving force, which is torque. Building up revs with the clutch is just getting the ICE into the torquey part of the curve, and is only transferring part of that power to the ground, either due to clutch slipping or wheel slipping. You could achieve the same thing on the Alta if you get the rear wheel spinning, but you'll only ever be able to get down the max torque the bike can produce
chase4372
Profile picture for user chase4372
Posts
12
Joined
2/1/2016
Location
Wyoming, MN, USA
chase4372 10/22/2018 3:45am
10/22/2018 3:45am
This is the sad reality of business, especially when the business you’re building is relying on funding from Harley Davidson, who at any point could feel that the electric technology is not in their (Petrol Power) best interest. I would not be surprised at all if we see Polaris ind. (AKA Victory Motorcycles) acquire Alta. Victory was already several years into development of their own electric street bikes, which were race and televised at the Isle of Man race, at least one year I know they made a big deal of it. Not to mention Polaris has a bit of a reputation of acquiring other brand ( Indian ) motorcycles I am quite sure is owned by Polaris, and their a company that has grown massively in the past 10 years or so. ( I happen to live in Wyoming, MN which is where they have their R&D facilities, they actually purchased the 600+ acres that it sits on from my old employer, we used to use the land as our wastewater treatment facility. Anyway, I anticipate plenty of you saying “ Polaris doesn’t make dirt bikes” and things of that nature, but they didn’t make UTV’s or motorcycles either, and now they have two major motorcycle brands, and are a leader in the UTV and ATV and snowmobile industries.
1
bvm111
Profile picture for user bvm111
Posts
10139
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
bvm111 10/22/2018 9:59am
10/22/2018 9:59am
I just want to know if they are liquidating their stock on hand... I would buy one if they discount them!

Post a reply to: Bad news on Alta