Roczen switched suspension?

ayearinmx
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ayearinmx 6/17/2018 9:51am
6/17/2018 9:51am
And while we're clearing things up..... it's Gajser not Gasjer
tek14
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tek14 6/17/2018 9:53am
6/17/2018 9:53am
Honda people say its not the bike. Ok.
1
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 6/17/2018 10:01am
6/17/2018 10:01am
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock?
That is some damn bad luck, I'm sure there's nothing more to it.

slipdog
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slipdog 6/17/2018 10:12am
6/17/2018 10:12am







The Shop

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ML512
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ML512 6/17/2018 10:36am
6/17/2018 10:36am
Johnny Depp wrote:
ML512 thanks for the time and thought you have put into this, I'm guessing your curiosity was aroused?. We'll have to agree to disagree. I could...
ML512 thanks for the time and thought you have put into this, I'm guessing your curiosity was aroused?. We'll have to agree to disagree. I could keep on with more, and several of my points were not addressed, but I don't have a dog in this hunt. Delete or dungeon if you want.

And building 7 never got hit by a plane.

It sure would be cool to see the new '19 Beta release on the home page. Tuesday is the day.



My curiosity wasn’t peeked as much as I try to keep inaccurate information from spreading on this forum. As for addressing everything, I don’t have enough time to write about every single part. I took on a few and debunked them but I don’t need have the time in the world to show how wrong you are considering we’ve already been over this topic a few times and you’re really reaching to add to it at this point.

As for Beta, it’s an off road brand and I’ll be busy in Florida all next week testing 2019 Husqvarna motocross models. I have my work load set for what’s important. I hope you can accurately read this through your tin foil glasses.
ML512
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ML512 6/17/2018 10:37am
6/17/2018 10:37am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2018 10:38am
Johnny Depp wrote:
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock? That is some damn bad...
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock?
That is some damn bad luck, I'm sure there's nothing more to it.

Seely is injured because he came up short on a quad, Craig is hurt because he cased a jump and landed in mud, washing out. Roczen was injured because he miss-calculated a rythym.
zehn
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zehn 6/17/2018 10:56am
6/17/2018 10:56am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2018 10:59am
Johnny Depp wrote:
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock? That is some damn bad...
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock?
That is some damn bad luck, I'm sure there's nothing more to it.

Give it up. We get it, you're convinced there's a Honda conspiracy to design a shock/swingarm to kill their factory riders.

There is one person on this forum taking your position, guess who he is?
Andy_Greenney 6/17/2018 11:28am
6/17/2018 11:28am
The real question......what difference does it make to any of the riders on this forum and the stock suspension they get on their bike?
Solidkm
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Solidkm 6/17/2018 11:39am
6/17/2018 11:39am
Wait, who brought up Beta? I thought Vital was safe from the Beta influx that has plagued TT.

I’ll help with the Beta review. It’s 11 grand. Has random ass suspension, copies KTMs of ten years ago, and weighs 260 pounds. ML512, you should put me on the books!
Jrewing
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Jrewing 6/17/2018 2:22pm
6/17/2018 2:22pm
ML512 wrote:
Well in the case of his crashes, two can be attributed to running too soft of a setting and having the suspension totally bottom, then redirecting...
Well in the case of his crashes, two can be attributed to running too soft of a setting and having the suspension totally bottom, then redirecting that leftover energy into what led to the crash.

As I mentioned above, having personally asked Ken this in an interview that’s somewhere around this site...he said that he was actively trying to go stiffer to negate that happening again.
Go stiffer and go slower or softer and win and crash. Suspension is always compromising.
What's right is what's winning. Second back is bad suspension
ruy
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ruy 6/17/2018 3:37pm
6/17/2018 3:37pm

MXVet261
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MXVet261 6/17/2018 4:10pm
6/17/2018 4:10pm
I thought they all crashed because of the BFRC shock? Oh wait....
mxjon454
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mxjon454 6/17/2018 4:15pm
6/17/2018 4:15pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
ML512 thanks for the time and thought you have put into this, I'm guessing your curiosity was aroused?. We'll have to agree to disagree. I could...
ML512 thanks for the time and thought you have put into this, I'm guessing your curiosity was aroused?. We'll have to agree to disagree. I could keep on with more, and several of my points were not addressed, but I don't have a dog in this hunt. Delete or dungeon if you want.

And building 7 never got hit by a plane.

It sure would be cool to see the new '19 Beta release on the home page. Tuesday is the day.



Agree to disagree? He just hit u with fact after fact lol
mxjon454
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mxjon454 6/17/2018 4:18pm
6/17/2018 4:18pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock? That is some damn bad...
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock?
That is some damn bad luck, I'm sure there's nothing more to it.

ML512 wrote:
Seely is injured because he came up short on a quad, Craig is hurt because he cased a jump and landed in mud, washing out. Roczen...
Seely is injured because he came up short on a quad, Craig is hurt because he cased a jump and landed in mud, washing out. Roczen was injured because he miss-calculated a rythym.
But its gotta be the suspension and the linkage dragging into the dirt causing the bike to slow down which in turn is making them come up short, hit a mud spot, and over jump into a rhythm section which makes the bike kick you over the bars lol
mxjon454
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mxjon454 6/17/2018 4:19pm
6/17/2018 4:19pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock? That is some damn bad...
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock?
That is some damn bad luck, I'm sure there's nothing more to it.

Theyre injured because they miscalculated/misjudged what they were doing.
ML512
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ML512 6/17/2018 4:29pm
6/17/2018 4:29pm
MXVet261 wrote:
I thought they all crashed because of the BFRC shock? Oh wait....
Actually, Gajser does run a BFRC. Laughing
kiwifan
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kiwifan 6/17/2018 4:55pm
6/17/2018 4:55pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock? That is some damn bad...
The 3 premier riders on the red team, all injured from endo's because somebody got the clickers wrong on the shock?
That is some damn bad luck, I'm sure there's nothing more to it.

mxjon454 wrote:
Theyre injured because they miscalculated/misjudged what they were doing.
that is exactly it....Tek14 and Johnny Depp love bagging/blaming the bike
Knoby
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Knoby 6/17/2018 5:27pm
6/17/2018 5:27pm
And ML-BOT came through again. NOBODY HUMAN KNOWS ALL THAT SHIT

Pit Row

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tempura
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tempura 6/17/2018 5:46pm
6/17/2018 5:46pm
WAIT!!...ML, are you implying that A-Kit can be bottomed??...say it ain’t so...lol
milliebays
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milliebays 6/17/2018 6:06pm
6/17/2018 6:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2018 6:30pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Well good luck to their riders if they didn't change it or add a glide plate. I read about a new frame, swingarm and linkage and...
Well good luck to their riders if they didn't change it or add a glide plate. I read about a new frame, swingarm and linkage and assumed they had moved it. I've been waiting for a technical briefing that spells out the changes and shows the old and new overlayed like they did before.

So we are to believe all of the Honda rider's had the same problem with a rebound kick, even though they all run different settings and even Showa and KYB's? Watch the videos for yourself, it always happens when they land the bike nose up and it cases rather than lands on the tires. All endo's over the front. In Gasjer's case you can clearly see the dirt flying forward and passing the bike underneath from the shock digging in. Of course the riders think they experience a rebound kick. Then there's the des nations mud packing. The coincidences are overwhelming.
ML512 wrote:
Both of Roczen’s incidents have the shock blowing through the stroke on a Jump face from too soft of settings, not from landing front end high...
Both of Roczen’s incidents have the shock blowing through the stroke on a Jump face from too soft of settings, not from landing front end high and dragging the bottom of the bike and the spring cup on the shocks aren’t low enough to meet material in the way you’re describing (the MXdN incident you’re referring to). Because I’m so sick of this argument I went out and measured the distance between the bottom of the frame and the lowest point of the linkage system on a new KTM and Honda in my shop.

The KTM linkage is exposed by 3mm more than the Honda, so shouldn’t KTM riders be thrown off? Secondly, the linkages dissapear behind the cradle of the frame once the suspension has gone through about the first two to three inches of travel. So in the case of Roczen’s incident, the linkage is completely concealed behind the frame and wouldn’t have been able to contact the ground.

Then you’re trying to claim the redesigned this for a safety aspect when you don’t even know the numbers or what actually changed. C’mon man, use some sense and get off your crazy agenda.
the blowing through the travel (not enough compression damping) was arguably exacerbated by a lack of sufficient high-speed rebound damping** - could this additionally or alternatively be a partial result of too low of a leverage-ratio curve at end of stroke? that is, that the spring has too much leverage on the rear wheel at full compression. .

**i see above you're blaming the comp damping. high-speed rebound damping comes into play when you've fully bottomed and the rapid release of energy from the fully compressed spring creates higher shaft speeds than (low-speed) rebound damping is otherwise tuned to control. I don't even know if KYB/Showa shocks have adjustable HSR, but they clearly need it.

FWIW, i don't think necessarily theres a common cause (olther than the Carmichael Curse), just curious here.
Mx Wildcat
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Mx Wildcat 6/18/2018 6:28am
6/18/2018 6:28am
Johnny Depp wrote:
So politics over performance, ya don't say. Time for a decal swap or as stated, no decals. We remember his father's epic meltdown over this subject...
So politics over performance, ya don't say. Time for a decal swap or as stated, no decals.

We remember his father's epic meltdown over this subject at RCH that sent him back to Germany for good.

So KR likes a softer feel, that sounds good to me, and you don't end up with a front end pushing in the corners.
ML512 wrote:
Well in the case of his crashes, two can be attributed to running too soft of a setting and having the suspension totally bottom, then redirecting...
Well in the case of his crashes, two can be attributed to running too soft of a setting and having the suspension totally bottom, then redirecting that leftover energy into what led to the crash.

As I mentioned above, having personally asked Ken this in an interview that’s somewhere around this site...he said that he was actively trying to go stiffer to negate that happening again.
I know it's known that Kenny runs a soft setup, but it looked like his setup at Mt. Morris looked the softest I've seen it since he's switched to the Honda.

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