A couple simple questions on drug testing...

craigathan404
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4/14/2018 12:40am
Idk this topic really is just mind blowing to me. Ever since WADA was brought into the sport it’s done nothing but cause issues. Js7 and the adderrall thing was kinda on stew but Clason and Tickle? I mean Clason said it was some sort of paperwork issue, and it seems Tickle may have just eaten a low quality protein bar at an airport or some protein powder or something and he pissed dirty.

Besides that, the penalties ARE UN FUCKING REAL. Good god I mean this isn’t the olympics why give out the same penalties! It’s really quite puzzling to me.

Not a fan of tickle at all, but man what a blow to his camp. Really a sad story and it’s obvious the FIM, AMA, and WADA have some serious issues to iron out. Just my .2
shuggs
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4/14/2018 3:55am
Mmm after the JS7 debacle I think everyone should have been extra cautious on what they were putting into their bodies, do i have sympathy for Tickle - a little but this is what the rules are!!

Go back a few years to Winter Olympics and Alain Baxter was stripped of bronze medal for using usual brand of inhaler but made in a different country - every athlete should be very careful of the minefield that is PED’s
MudPup545
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4/14/2018 4:11am
Yes on both. But, the first one is a grey area. If these guys are getting popped for stuff that is available on the shelf at my local CVS pharmacy, then the list of what's deemed illegal needs to be reviewed.
Sideways
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4/14/2018 4:19am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 4:21am
Are the penalties the same if you for example use straight up steroids and the substance Broc "used"?

One is clearly a drug and the other (as far as im aware) is legal and used in alot of prework supplements? If the punishment is the same my opinion is that they should have some kind of scale. Ruining a career over a legal powerbar is harsh.

The Shop

motomike137
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4/14/2018 4:55am
This sport cannot afford to be banning riders for 4 years imho. The basis behind the 4 year number by these organizations really doesn't apply here as others have already mentioned. The last I knew NASCAR handles this with their own set of penalties along with a reinstatement program. Look up what they did with AJ Almendinger.
ChubbyCat113
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4/14/2018 5:02am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 5:04am
I don't think they should test until you give them a reason. This is their job, just like my job if I wreck a vehicle or someone thinks I'm making "off normal" decisions or "odd" behavior then drug test. If someone is riding erratically and potentially causing harm then test them. Everyone would be taking something to get better. It would be like late 90s MLB

Then if they fail, suspend them for 1 week, 2nd failure 4 weeks, 3rd failure the season. Too small of a sport to scare people about taking a shot of espresso
fullysicmate
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4/14/2018 5:16am
I don't think they should test until you give them a reason. This is their job, just like my job if I wreck a vehicle or...
I don't think they should test until you give them a reason. This is their job, just like my job if I wreck a vehicle or someone thinks I'm making "off normal" decisions or "odd" behavior then drug test. If someone is riding erratically and potentially causing harm then test them. Everyone would be taking something to get better. It would be like late 90s MLB

Then if they fail, suspend them for 1 week, 2nd failure 4 weeks, 3rd failure the season. Too small of a sport to scare people about taking a shot of espresso
May I ask you what industry you are in..
Cadpro18
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4/14/2018 5:49am
Drug testing is unconstitutional... that's my vote.
TerryB
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4/14/2018 5:56am
If our choices are: What we currently have, (WADA, FIM), or no testing... I’ll go with no testing.
DoctorJD
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4/14/2018 5:57am
I voted "yes" and "yes". If motocross is indeed one the most physically demanding sports in the world, then hell yea, a guy gets an unfair advantage if he's physically enhancing. But a 2-year penalty? Hell, the NFL doesn't even have a 2-year ban for a 1st time offender.

Can someone remind me how the FIM got involved in SX in the first place? I can't remember exactly how all of that went down.
TerryB
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4/14/2018 6:00am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 6:01am
DoctorJD wrote:
I voted "yes" and "yes". If motocross is indeed one the most physically demanding sports in the world, then hell yea, a guy gets an unfair...
I voted "yes" and "yes". If motocross is indeed one the most physically demanding sports in the world, then hell yea, a guy gets an unfair advantage if he's physically enhancing. But a 2-year penalty? Hell, the NFL doesn't even have a 2-year ban for a 1st time offender.

Can someone remind me how the FIM got involved in SX in the first place? I can't remember exactly how all of that went down.
Dude... it’s 4 years. FOUR!
DoctorJD
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4/14/2018 6:35am
DoctorJD wrote:
I voted "yes" and "yes". If motocross is indeed one the most physically demanding sports in the world, then hell yea, a guy gets an unfair...
I voted "yes" and "yes". If motocross is indeed one the most physically demanding sports in the world, then hell yea, a guy gets an unfair advantage if he's physically enhancing. But a 2-year penalty? Hell, the NFL doesn't even have a 2-year ban for a 1st time offender.

Can someone remind me how the FIM got involved in SX in the first place? I can't remember exactly how all of that went down.
TerryB wrote:
Dude... it’s 4 years. FOUR!
That's fcked.

Again, I have a problem with guys illegally enhancing, but the punishment should fit the crime. This is basically a "death penalty" for a riders career...for a first time offense, no less. I get it, the "risk" element of the "risk vs. reward" for doping has to be high enough that it discourages an athlete for doing it, but in this case the penalty is way TF over the top.
tp4
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4/14/2018 6:42am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 6:49am

good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f
FIM to get the hell out of here this is an american sport started here..they can't even pay their own riders!
ML512
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4/14/2018 6:49am
I don’t like the fim being involved why do we need them and wada involved?
I said this a ton of times yesterday in topics and I'll say it again, pointing fingers at the FIM is pointless, AMA Pro Motocorss uses USADA, which is WADA's USA branch. Meaning if the Supercross was governed by the AMA solely and we had drug testing like outdoors, USADA would be in charge of it. They're just a serious if not more serious, it's the branch that finally took on and down Lance Armstrong. They would be handing out the same penalties that WADA does, so in mythical land if it was the AMA Supercross and Tickle took this same test through USADA, we'd end up with the same outcome.
ML512
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4/14/2018 6:50am
tp4 wrote:
good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f FIM to get the hell out of...

good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f
FIM to get the hell out of here this is an american sport started here..they can't even pay their own riders!
Read my last response to understand who's doing what here, it's not the FIM's fault...
4/14/2018 6:52am
Always amazes me the guys blaming the testing authority. How it got into his system is irrelevant because it can’t be proved, you could believe it was intentional, accidental or that one of his opponents spiked his drink then tipped off the authorities. How often have you seen an athlete admit to intentionally taking PEDs
tp4
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4/14/2018 6:54am
tp4 wrote:
good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f FIM to get the hell out of...

good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f
FIM to get the hell out of here this is an american sport started here..they can't even pay their own riders!
ML512 wrote:
Read my last response to understand who's doing what here, it's not the FIM's fault...
come on ml 512..regardless of this ...the FIM is a european based sanctioning body..why are they running our series..its wrong period
WhiteTaco
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4/14/2018 7:11am
rmoto003 wrote:
Havnt we gotten to pretty stupid levels of policing though? I thought these rules were for things like blood doping, hgh, and steroid use. Im all...
Havnt we gotten to pretty stupid levels of policing though?

I thought these rules were for things like blood doping, hgh, and steroid use. Im all for testing for that stuff, sure.

But really? First adderall (which like 30% of the population is on lmao) and now a type of preworkout supplement? I mean fucks sake.

Still waiting for these jokers to catch any ACTUAL blood dopers. Or steroid users. I know they got the Moss brothers for it(which they were actually doing drugs iirc) but this shit is just fucking stupid now.
My thoughts exactly.
gt80rider
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4/14/2018 7:21am
SoCalMX70 wrote:
An easy Yes to both.
X2
ML512
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4/14/2018 7:22am
tp4 wrote:
good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f FIM to get the hell out of...

good post Guy B..yes on both..the sport should be legit..but not what they did to JS...also tell the f
FIM to get the hell out of here this is an american sport started here..they can't even pay their own riders!
ML512 wrote:
Read my last response to understand who's doing what here, it's not the FIM's fault...
tp4 wrote:
come on ml 512..regardless of this ...the FIM is a european based sanctioning body..why are they running our series..its wrong period
Ultimately, there's not really a difference if they're the sanctioning body versus the AMA in these cases. Our series is a world championship, FIM is the world sanctioning body. If the AMA was the Supercross sanctioning body (and they actually are for the 250 class, as it's a national/regional series) nothing of real meaning changes.
Graybeard
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4/14/2018 7:28am
Can’t believe my own votes, No and Yes, but that’s what my gut was telling me. I’m an old school conservative type guy, but I’m just so over the drug testing issue for seemingly meaningless supplements that are sitting on my own kitchen counter that I use before hitting the gym all week long! I can’t get through some of the high intensity workouts without them after a long days work!
philG
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4/14/2018 7:34am
I don’t like the fim being involved why do we need them and wada involved?
Because its a global sport that needs a global set of rules, otherwise it would be like Monster Trucks or Mud Drags...
level
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4/14/2018 7:54am
I think it depends on the drug. The stuff tickle took of over the counter should be legal. If the substance is legal then riders should be allowed. If illegal then a penalty
mxb2
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4/14/2018 8:03am
Until.the rules change ,if they do. They are what they are. Read the rulebook,guidelines. Any doubt do research, before using anything in doubt. Pretty simple. No excuses, especially at the top level teams with their resources. Figured people would learn from the stewart,clason incidents.
mxb2
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4/14/2018 8:06am
And to answer the question,. Its yes and no. Riders know the penalty if they get caught. But still roll the dice..
TbonesPop
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4/14/2018 8:28am
2 Points -

1) The quality control and labeling requirements in the supplement industry is crap, total crap. Meaning that what is shown on the label of a product and what is actually in the product is most likely incorrect. I've been told by multiple fitness trainers who do what they do for a living, that there is no governing body that regulates the supplement industry. I'm going to assume that is true as I believe them. Maybe someone else can confirm this - or discredit it. Why in the world would an elite athlete who makes a living use supplements that run that risk? Just eat REAL food.

2) I work in the industrial chemical industry and have for +20 years. Certified testing labs make mistakes all the time - or in some cases there are testing interferences that throw test results off. I see this all the time and this is coming from multiple labs all of which have multiple certifications. Having a lab mistake is certainly not out of the question. Was Broc tested more than once before he received the suspension?

I support drug testing, but a 4 year suspension on a first offense is like giving death penalty for going 95 mph in a 65 mph zone. A 1 year suspension? Ok, fine. That would be a strong deterrent. 4 Years? Completely asinine.
4/14/2018 8:40am Edited Date/Time 4/14/2018 8:45am
Thats why there needs to be a riders union....at some point these riders will come together and be each others advocate for instances like this. Without the riders there are no races! Pretty simple really!! These racers are still young and selfish and will have to learn the hard way that a riders union started by the riders will go a long way to create not only a safer career/enviorment, but a successful career. Money has always come in the way of this. These racers dont want to parts ways with 20% of their check to make something like this reality.

At the end of the day this is a spectacle that keeps getting crazier and more dangerous and nobody is protecting our riders. These companies and contractors are grabbing everything they can and getting away with a lot more than 20% of these riders checks!!!!

Asimo
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4/14/2018 8:44am
1. Yes. Because when performance and money is on the line, there is cheating. Every coach or trainer is bought and paid for that reason and that reason alone.
Once you know how to pick up a dumbbell, your trainer is your drug protocol go to go. That is 100% why I would hire a "Coach or Trainer" That is why MMA Guys hire weight cut gurus. For the drugs and a weight cut protocol. Period.

I could list some names, who that is why they are hired. Period. No other reason. Why would you hire a guy to help you drop 50 lbs in 3 days if you didn't need drugs and someone who knows how to use it?

2. No.
Because you can pin a couple grams of some gear ~ 24 hours out and still test clean. 48 hours and its like it never existed.

A recent JACKED MMA guy got popped. Tested Mid Level normal before just prior to a fight. Under suspicion of how a dude that looked like that could test mid level normal, They pulled Piss and blood right after the fight. His coaches and trainers didnt think that far ahead.

His Test levels were well over 1500, some say it was almost 4,000. That means from the first test, to the 2nd pull, he went back on.
This is why some in MMA want lifetime bans. You get popped, you are done. It's far too easy to cheat.
Johnny Depp
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4/14/2018 8:47am
If you answer No to question 1, question 2 is irrelevant.

They can't catch most of them anyway, look at bicycles. The "trainers" are way ahead of the "testers".

Why is it that a career of MX makes so many guys forehead and eyebrow bones get bigger?

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