Matthes, JT comments on PEDs

NorCal 50+
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12/13/2017 7:34pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Here's a stupid question for all you conspiracy nut jobs. If all the top guys are all jacked up on PED's , wouldn't the best guy...
Here's a stupid question for all you conspiracy nut jobs.

If all the top guys are all jacked up on PED's , wouldn't the best guy still be winning? I guess the guy , that's clean in 12th place most of the time would be mopping the floor with these guys....right?

Don't get me wrong....I definitely think guys are using , but to say some aren't and some are , is fucking retarded.

Taking PED's with no fitness won't do a thing anyways. You STILL have to work harder than the guys you're racing against.

But go ahead with your witch hunt , it's funny to watch. Me and this guy I just met will be drinking a beer having a good laugh.

Dude, what are you talking about? There is no discussion of a conspiracy here, just a discussion of JT and Matthes' comments on PED use. Posting a lot doesn't mean you say a lot of intelligent things.
It's pretty stupid to call people "nut jobs" for discussing a factual conversation.
coolhand
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12/13/2017 7:39pm




Timmy?
Premix
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12/13/2017 7:40pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 7:40pm
So serious question here, I feel like we need to preface this especially in regards to this topic.

So as of recently, Clason was suspended due to a positive test and there appears to be no resolution in the near future. So when DM18 was popped and fired from Kawi for whatever “substance” he had in his locker, was he tested immediately afterwords? Im assuming if it was bad enough for Kawi to fire him, it probabaly wasn’t legal. Or did his TUE just find it’s way into the file cabinet, because he was right back to racing in 2016....
mark911
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12/13/2017 7:40pm
I say get Langston back on Pulp, get him drunk and loose lips . . . . . . That last show was epic!

The Shop

JMR1976
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12/13/2017 7:43pm
coolhand wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/12/13/231525/s1200_red.jpg[/img] Timmy?




Timmy?
Peds don’t just get you swole lol. People hear act like the have no effect on endurance. BRO peds only get you buffed and ripped! Do some basic research people.
mx196
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12/13/2017 7:44pm
All Steve was saying was that in the early 2000’s when these substances weren’t tested, he wouldn’t be surprised if racers were dabbling to gain an extra edge and potentially earn a substantially larger income if they are at the skill caliber to do so. That’s all. He isn’t condoning it.
Does is it go on today? Sure. But I highly doubt Bakers factory is pumping their riders with these substances. They would lose everything.
How about just recognize that the top 5/10 guys are just animals and athletes that don’t skip leg day, do shit tons of cardio, and eat their vitamins brother. But honestly if an investigation was done maybe that would put all this shit to rest if nothings found. And hey if stuff is found more power to the sport for cleaning it up.
Rhino
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12/13/2017 7:44pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 8:17pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Wads and Usada is being called into question because they never caught Lance and others. I outlined something they could do in my previous post. Establish...
Wads and Usada is being called into question because they never caught Lance and others.

I outlined something they could do in my previous post. Establish a baseline at the beginning of the year for everyone and then random test after that.
ML512 wrote:
They basically do that with biopassports...
Baselines don't work if your initial bloodwork looks like a 6 year old girls or someone popping 2500 on the test numbers.

It can be manipulated both ways.

Experts have already said Biological passports aren't going to work.

Sounds great but they listed numerous reasons why it wont really work.
Crush
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12/13/2017 7:51pm
Thing that was interesting in that pod discussion was Matthes said something like, Mike Alessi thought in his Suzuki days that "his competition" were on stuff...

Well he's either referencing RV, Chad or Tedesco as they were the other race winners that year – Let's assume RV as Mike went out before the other two won a race and well, we know there is likely some sour grapes there...

Soooo.... if it's in reference to RV coming like a freight train and winning Glen Helen late in both motos, then how the fuck does he explain this scrawny kid (read: PED monster) doing the exact same thing to him in 05?



I guess everyone is on it from amateurs all the way up? Or, you know, some people just get it done.
Johnny Depp
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12/13/2017 8:15pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 8:18pm
If you don't think lot's of wanna be kids in High School football aren't on ped's then you aren't from TexasLaughing . They just keep getting bigger and bigger. They usually have College offers by their sophmore year, just old enough to drive at 16, so yea, they have to start early. Kids are groomed in one sport as a "select" player by Junior High or sooner.
kzizok
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12/13/2017 8:33pm
Attn shoppers,

There is a blue light special going on for PED threads in the Dumbgeon department.
TeamGreen
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12/13/2017 8:35pm
MxKing809 wrote:
What about Matthes and JT basically confirming past use? Is that keyboard hearsay and “gossip”?
TeamGreen wrote:
Actually, yes. It's Hear-Say...definitely. If they wanna go "on the record" and give a legal statement, that's a move towards "fact". But, here's the thing... People...
Actually, yes. It's Hear-Say...definitely. If they wanna go "on the record" and give a legal statement, that's a move towards "fact". But, here's the thing...

People think they know all sorts of stuff.
MxKing809 wrote:
So Matthes saying “I know for sure 2 guys back in the day we’re trying HGH, they told me” isn’t enough for you to come off...
So Matthes saying “I know for sure 2 guys back in the day we’re trying HGH, they told me” isn’t enough for you to come off your white horse of defending the industry?

Got it Manny Bro. Silly
Uh, sure, that's it.

Like I said, y'all are having too much fun looking and sounding like a bunch of Kardashians.
Rhino
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12/13/2017 8:35pm
I have suspected 4 dudes in moto in the last 10 years or so. The rest all look like they are on estradiol, and most are skinny and loose saggy skin.

Plus, who cares? It wont make you talented.

And one of them didn't win much of anything, but he was pretty jacked looking for a while, with lots of acne. BUT, that could be because that's the age of these guys, full of natural hormones, and if you eat and train, well, you should look somewhat in shape.

You know, the eye test.

For those who keep saying Growth this Growth that, those who can afford a good 4-10 IU per day of Growth, (Not generic chinese Kits, but Pharm grade), well, Growth by itself isn't very anabolic and doesn't build much muscle alone. Some, but not like other drugs.
It IS a very effective fat burner, if you follow a decent diet and helps with recuperation.

For the money though, growth is even a piss poor fat burner as there are far more effective drugs for FAR LESS money. Few can afford real Growth, and even chinese kits are expensive.
These guys getting lean, well the better compounds will make you hot because they are thermogenic. The kind of hot you see a jacked dude standing outside in 20 degree weather shirtless.

And that folks, well, wouldn't be good in the summer heat.

BUT, the other plus is they work for endurance. So its a trade off during summer.








jeffro503
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12/13/2017 8:36pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Here's a stupid question for all you conspiracy nut jobs. If all the top guys are all jacked up on PED's , wouldn't the best guy...
Here's a stupid question for all you conspiracy nut jobs.

If all the top guys are all jacked up on PED's , wouldn't the best guy still be winning? I guess the guy , that's clean in 12th place most of the time would be mopping the floor with these guys....right?

Don't get me wrong....I definitely think guys are using , but to say some aren't and some are , is fucking retarded.

Taking PED's with no fitness won't do a thing anyways. You STILL have to work harder than the guys you're racing against.

But go ahead with your witch hunt , it's funny to watch. Me and this guy I just met will be drinking a beer having a good laugh.

NorCal 50+ wrote:
Dude, what are you talking about? There is no discussion of a conspiracy here, just a discussion of JT and Matthes' comments on PED use. Posting...
Dude, what are you talking about? There is no discussion of a conspiracy here, just a discussion of JT and Matthes' comments on PED use. Posting a lot doesn't mean you say a lot of intelligent things.
It's pretty stupid to call people "nut jobs" for discussing a factual conversation.
I'm saying that they all turn out the same. A bunch of guys hashing back and forth about who used , who didn't , who was a cheater , who wasn't and guys that say they have " inside info "......and nothing ever happens.

Did I pretty much nail what the thread is about? Was there any new earth shattering evidence that's showed up? Anything change at all?

They always turn into a " lets throw our least favorite rider under the bus "......which is exactly what's going on here I bet. And as far as me posting here a bunch....not that much any more.
Braaaphole
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12/13/2017 8:40pm
bvm111 wrote:
If you think anything that can be injected will make you a multiple time champion then you have zero real world experience in AAS or HGH...
If you think anything that can be injected will make you a multiple time champion then you have zero real world experience in AAS or HGH. Now coming back from a major or severe injury, knee, tib/fib, destroyed elbow and wrist, in six months and looking like you walked off the cover of muscle and fitness then I think we can have a discussion. The reality is the rest of us take 12-18 months to heal and gain 50-75 pounds and can’t run around the block when released by the doc let alone 30 minute motos and looking better prepared than last year. The difference here is riding Motocross is a hobby of ours and a multi million dollar job to them.... if it was my job I would do whatever it takes to get on the bike as fast as possible again and so would everyone else.
No it won't turn an average person into a world champion. However, for someone already at the top level could certainly gain tenths of a second per lap. Testosterone absolutely enhances eye hand coordination and reaction times. It also drastically increases endurance and decreases recovery time.
JT was trying to compare it to baseball and I think he completely missed the mark. He was only giving them credit for the additional strength. While he's correct that it does add strength, what he missed was that all of the guys in the discussion had home run power without AAS. Baseball is all about eye hand coordination and that's where their greatest gains came from.

I'm one of the few people with the balls to admit I've done them, so I'm speaking from first hand experience. I can also tell you that if I were going to get back into racing and try to go to Loretta's, I would 100% show up to Loretta's mid cycle. Testosterone absolutely makes a difference in just about every aspect, especially as you get older.
Rhino
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12/13/2017 8:46pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 8:47pm
Adam43 wrote:
Recipe to create an environment of doping: - Naive fanbase - No investigative media - Willfully ignorant / complicit industry - Inconsistent testing - Clear benefits...
Recipe to create an environment of doping:

- Naive fanbase
- No investigative media
- Willfully ignorant / complicit industry
- Inconsistent testing
- Clear benefits from PED
Exactly.
Rhino
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12/13/2017 9:00pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Performance Enhancers are for your natural abilities to be enhanced. Testosterone for example improves memory and a testosterone cream wouldn’t raise your levels to a level...
Performance Enhancers are for your natural abilities to be enhanced.

Testosterone for example improves memory and a testosterone cream wouldn’t raise your levels to a level that would get you busted. Many doctors will give you a prescription for testosterone and you could get a TUE for it......just one example.
twotwosix wrote:
Have you taken anything? Have you trained or developed a program for anyone who has? Please don’t patronize me and try to tell me about what...
Have you taken anything? Have you trained or developed a program for anyone who has? Please don’t patronize me and try to tell me about what elevated testosterone levels do buddy. It’s virtually impossible to get a TUE for any anabolic compound or derivative of testosterone with USADA.
kkawboy14 wrote:
You are the man, glad your hear! Like I said a testosterone cream wouldn’t elevate you to a failing test!
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day?

Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole body when they couldnt get their injectables through customs.

I know a guy whos blood panel showed 1479 for test using cream.. Thats plenty over "Normal"

Some guys were using raws and dissolving into DMSO and rubbing it all over their bodies when their supplier was out.
Depends on the extremes you're willing to go.
cali11
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12/13/2017 9:01pm
twotwosix wrote:
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you...
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you spend 4 hours at the practice track and then another hour on your road bike afterwards. PEDs don’t improve your riding technique. PEDs don’t help you develop your factory machine. PEDs don’t train your mental attitude and self talk to be positive and stay focused on your goal. PEDs don’t give you the creative ability to look at a section of Track and develop a faster way through it in your mind. PEDs don’t provide you with years of experience to draw upon in split second situations. PEDs don’t improve your race craft. PEDs don’t give you the mental grit and tenacity to tell your body what it’s going to do 25 minutes into moto 2 at Red Bud. PEDs don’t program your year out in advance to allow for training peaks and valleys. PEDs don’t change your diet or training week to week for you to account for changes in your body. PEDs don’t put you in the 1% of 1%ers. Talent, very hard work and dedication do.

PEDs in Moto would be used to improve strength, recovery and extend endurance. But I don’t think it’s prevalent inside of the current USADA/WADA generation.

As a former amateur bodybuilder, NASM certified trainer, IFA certified sports nutritionist and MX racer since I was a child, believe me, I have perspective on this and am very familiar with most all available drugs and the process/protocol upon which one takes and implements said items.

You know what a better question is? Why do we allow wanna be Pro racers onto a AMA SX/MX who are out of shape and can’t pass a baseline fitness test to show that they won’t need to skip whoops sections during a main event or have their lap times drop 10 seconds a lap by the end of a main event because they aren’t in good enough shape to race professionally for 30 minutes straight? It’s an even better question when it comes to outdoor motocross specifically. I’ve seen some Pros on track that are a danger to themselves and others half way through a race due to their physical conditioning.

There are so many better discussions to have about Pro MX/SX right now. We have the best testing body’s in the world watching our sport right now.
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over Moutains the year before, to going so fast the next year he had to use his brakes in the corners. Ask JS7 if adderall didn't help him focus.
12/13/2017 9:11pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 9:12pm
I just remember John Tomac on Matthes' podcast about a year and a half ago mentioning he felt the drug testing in this sport was far from where it needed to be. I kind of took that as he felt that people were doing stuff they weren't supposed to be and were able to get around the testing. Maybe I read way too far into it but that's how I interpreted what he said.

And as far as I know the testing at the time was exactly the same as it is now. (I believe the podcast was posted a little before the outdoors in 2016).
dkg
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12/13/2017 9:50pm
731chopper wrote:
What were the rules regarding PED's in 2004 (just a random year)? I took Matthes and JT's comments as it wasn't illegal back then. If it...
What were the rules regarding PED's in 2004 (just a random year)? I took Matthes and JT's comments as it wasn't illegal back then.

If it was illegal then there may be a real story here. If it wasn't illegal then it doesn't matter who did them.
Agreed.
Rhino
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12/13/2017 9:55pm
Matthes wrote:
When there was no testing for anything except for recreational drugs, why wouldn't you try to push the envelope and see what you can take to...
When there was no testing for anything except for recreational drugs, why wouldn't you try to push the envelope and see what you can take to make you better? There are millions of dollars at stake after all.

Consequently, why would you try that when there is such testing in the sport and when you look at our top guys, none of them appear to be some machines without flaws so why couldn't you accept that there's no way PED's are running around the pits like Jeff says they are. Are there dudes breaking the rules? Probably but there's no way I believe it's a huge issue in the sport. In talks with riders now, ex-riders who had these elite trainers, teams, the trainers themselves, I just don't see it being so widespread.

Getting huge wouldn't help a racer out as we've all detailed and any of the blood doping stuff that I've read about and talked to people about is too expensive, takes too much knowledge from chemists/trainers that only the top guys could afford it. And back to the top guys getting tested randomly throughout the season to take that risk.

As far as us working for the promoter of the MX series, any listener of mine knows that I think and have said over and over that there should be random motorhome checks for IV's at the nationals (although really, the amount of motorhomes are WAY down from where they once were). I asked someone in power about that one time and they told me it's private property and you couldn't enforce that.

I'm just not sure why the sport that has WADA and USADA testing (agencies that are accepted worldwide to be the best) in it is STILL being called into question as being some drug-fueled race to pump the best drugs into your system? Like, what else could be done by "the sport" to stop the guys IF, and it's a big if, they wanted to cheat?
But not all make you big. Some give virtually no mass gain and what, if any it does(For a male, or a female stacking with some small amounts of test), is lean and dry, but they will give massive strength and fatigue resistance.

Basically the same compounds chicks doing Pro Bikini shows do to get capped delts and Dat ass.
Womens fitness and Pro Bikini is as dirty as any mens sport.

This chick just blew out alot with the amount of compounds she was using.



jbrown15
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12/13/2017 9:58pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 10:01pm
coolhand wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2017/12/13/231525/s1200_red.jpg[/img] Timmy?




Timmy?
JMR1976 wrote:
Peds don’t just get you swole lol. People hear act like the have no effect on endurance. BRO peds only get you buffed and ripped! Do...
Peds don’t just get you swole lol. People hear act like the have no effect on endurance. BRO peds only get you buffed and ripped! Do some basic research people.
I think allot of guys are confusing PED's with just straight up steroids, steroids just fall under the umbrella of PED's.Taking steroids can help get you jacked like Carrot Top, but PED's most definitely help with endurance and recovery from training. PED's are a huge range of drugs too, not just steroids. There's even an argument that something as simple a creatine could be considered a PED.
12/13/2017 9:58pm
As a recent patient of TRT, I can honestly say that it's a game changer.
12/13/2017 10:01pm
jbrown15 wrote:
I think allot of guys are confusing PED's with just straight up steroids, steroids just fall under the umbrella of PED's.Taking steroids can help get you...
I think allot of guys are confusing PED's with just straight up steroids, steroids just fall under the umbrella of PED's.Taking steroids can help get you jacked like Carrot Top, but PED's most definitely help with endurance and recovery from training. PED's are a huge range of drugs too, not just steroids. There's even an argument that something as simple a creatine could be considered a PED.
As well as SARMs. It wouldn't shock me if compounds such as Ostarine, GW, and SR-9009 were used in motocross. They are relatively safe and GW and SR vastly increase aerobic capacity.
kkawboy14
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12/13/2017 10:01pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 10:08pm
So why would the Russian down hill ski team need PEDS? Doesn’t seem like the winter athletes need to get BIGGER, just better.....

How much do riders spend a year on legal supplements? what exactly does a rider get for paying the Baker Factory $250,000 a year? Supplements, hypnosis, massages, food? $250,000 a year seems like a lot of money......
jbrown15
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12/13/2017 10:12pm
Giygas wrote:
As a recent patient of TRT, I can honestly say that it's a game changer.
It's funny how the UFC use to even give guys exemptions to use TRT because they'd get a note from a doctor that they had low testosterone levels and needed to get them back up to a baseline. Of course their levels were low because they were probably cycling off of something they had just taken.....lol
EddieC
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12/13/2017 10:14pm
Adam43 wrote:
Recipe to create an environment of doping: - Naive fanbase - No investigative media - Willfully ignorant / complicit industry - Inconsistent testing - Clear benefits...
Recipe to create an environment of doping:

- Naive fanbase
- No investigative media
- Willfully ignorant / complicit industry
- Inconsistent testing
- Clear benefits from PED
Rhino wrote:
Exactly.
Remember the college student who confessed to taking PEDS who was a MX trainer at MTF? This person claimed he had first hand knowledge of doping and that he learned it at MTF.
Whatever happened to this guy?

Does anyone remember Jeff Alessi endorsing Deer Antler Velvet from the same company that got banned by the NFL? DEER ANTLER VELVET had since be proven NOT to work, but the fact that athletes were endorsing a product that was clearly being promoted as a PED should tell you something.

I almost lost my job for saying that the FEDs should investigate to see if there was PED use in the sport.
I spoke up not because I want to see the industry that has given me so much get put in the lime light for something so negative. I spoke up because as the owner of a Physical Therapy and Sports Performance center I wanted to make sure I was competing on a level playing field. If riders are being told by AGENTS, TM's, PARENTS and SPONSORS that they need to train with a certain person or certain facility because the have the "GOOD" stuff I wanted to know about it. I also know the consequences that occur to athletes who can't afford the "GOOD" stuff but still want to dope. These are the athletes that end up dying on training rides or while competing at an event.

Now that JT and Matthes have said what they said, why not have someone come in and ask the difficult questions?

The following article is well written and gives some very good insight into how well PEDS work.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test
jbrown15
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12/13/2017 10:15pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
So why would the Russian down hill ski team need PEDS? Doesn’t seem like the winter athletes need to get BIGGER, just better..... How much do...
So why would the Russian down hill ski team need PEDS? Doesn’t seem like the winter athletes need to get BIGGER, just better.....

How much do riders spend a year on legal supplements? what exactly does a rider get for paying the Baker Factory $250,000 a year? Supplements, hypnosis, massages, food? $250,000 a year seems like a lot of money......
It's not about getting bigger, you don't take PED's just to get bigger. They can train way harder and longer while on them and have super fast recovery time from being on them allowing them to continue to train just as hard. Plus lets not forget that the athletes probably feel invincible when they're taking them so mentally they can push harder too.
twotwosix
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12/13/2017 10:26pm Edited Date/Time 12/14/2017 9:42am
twotwosix wrote:
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you...
PEDs don’t get your ass out of bed at 5:00am everyday. PEDs don’t track your caloric intake and macros everyday for you. PEDs don’t make you spend 4 hours at the practice track and then another hour on your road bike afterwards. PEDs don’t improve your riding technique. PEDs don’t help you develop your factory machine. PEDs don’t train your mental attitude and self talk to be positive and stay focused on your goal. PEDs don’t give you the creative ability to look at a section of Track and develop a faster way through it in your mind. PEDs don’t provide you with years of experience to draw upon in split second situations. PEDs don’t improve your race craft. PEDs don’t give you the mental grit and tenacity to tell your body what it’s going to do 25 minutes into moto 2 at Red Bud. PEDs don’t program your year out in advance to allow for training peaks and valleys. PEDs don’t change your diet or training week to week for you to account for changes in your body. PEDs don’t put you in the 1% of 1%ers. Talent, very hard work and dedication do.

PEDs in Moto would be used to improve strength, recovery and extend endurance. But I don’t think it’s prevalent inside of the current USADA/WADA generation.

As a former amateur bodybuilder, NASM certified trainer, IFA certified sports nutritionist and MX racer since I was a child, believe me, I have perspective on this and am very familiar with most all available drugs and the process/protocol upon which one takes and implements said items.

You know what a better question is? Why do we allow wanna be Pro racers onto a AMA SX/MX who are out of shape and can’t pass a baseline fitness test to show that they won’t need to skip whoops sections during a main event or have their lap times drop 10 seconds a lap by the end of a main event because they aren’t in good enough shape to race professionally for 30 minutes straight? It’s an even better question when it comes to outdoor motocross specifically. I’ve seen some Pros on track that are a danger to themselves and others half way through a race due to their physical conditioning.

There are so many better discussions to have about Pro MX/SX right now. We have the best testing body’s in the world watching our sport right now.
cali11 wrote:
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over...
You don't think in a 30 minute moto peds are not going to give you superman stamina? I read Armstrong went from dieing to get over Moutains the year before, to going so fast the next year he had to use his brakes in the corners. Ask JS7 if adderall didn't help him focus.
I do believe that a proper doping program would make a considerable difference in Outdoor motocross when it comes solely to endurance and strength. I chose my words intentionally and didn’t say it wouldn’t help. However, there are so many other things it wouldnt help a motocross athlete with though.

People keep bringing up testosterone. I am assuming because they don’t know about much else? They talk about ‘taking testosterone’ like that is prime PED to take. Testosterone is already in you. Taking a synthetic version of testosterone is only going to elevate your natural test levels and temporarily shut down your natural production. Testosterone levels aren’t the defining factor in a doping program. You just get them elevated and then keep them there. Your grueling training then won’t drop your levels down when you are controlling your levels with a synthetic. Test is like the foundation you build your house on. It’s everything else that is going to make the big differences. So everyone that keeps mentioning test this, test that, sounds silly. There are far greater things to implement than an above average testosterone level.

Simply taking additional synthetic testosterone into your body is not going to make a noticeable difference in hand eye coordination. That simply isn’t how it works. Now if your levels were low and you began to take test to improve your levels to an average or above average level, that could make a noticeable difference. Simply increasing a 22 years old athlete’s test levels from say, 700ng/dl to 2000 isn’t going to give him what instantly needs to get better gate drops than MA800. Said 22 year old athlete’s hand eye coordination isn’t going to be much different. Sorry.

Also, comparing what TRT does for a 55 year old 9-5 male and what it does to a 22 year old, high level motocross athlete is not that same thing.

A well rounded program for a motocross athlete would probably be compromised of blood transfusions, EPO, HGH, a couple choice steroids to increase muscular strength and recovery (not muscle size), some beta blockers, corticosteroids, then stimulants and narcotics around events. And probably more that I’m not up to date on. You know how hard that is to hide from USADA in 2017? This is not 2009. You would need a highly funded, state sponsored program to be able to beat WADA like some folks are implying. I do not believe it is prevalent in our sport right now. Some idiot would have slipped up by now and not one person has. The day we start getting guys popping for SARMs, EPO, DHT orals or higher than average testosterone to epitestosterone levels, then I’ll begin to wonder.
newmann
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12/13/2017 10:28pm
Adam43 wrote:
Recipe to create an environment of doping: - Naive fanbase - No investigative media - Willfully ignorant / complicit industry - Inconsistent testing - Clear benefits...
Recipe to create an environment of doping:

- Naive fanbase
- No investigative media
- Willfully ignorant / complicit industry
- Inconsistent testing
- Clear benefits from PED
Rhino wrote:
Exactly.
EddieC wrote:
Remember the college student who confessed to taking PEDS who was a MX trainer at MTF? This person claimed he had first hand knowledge of doping...
Remember the college student who confessed to taking PEDS who was a MX trainer at MTF? This person claimed he had first hand knowledge of doping and that he learned it at MTF.
Whatever happened to this guy?

Does anyone remember Jeff Alessi endorsing Deer Antler Velvet from the same company that got banned by the NFL? DEER ANTLER VELVET had since be proven NOT to work, but the fact that athletes were endorsing a product that was clearly being promoted as a PED should tell you something.

I almost lost my job for saying that the FEDs should investigate to see if there was PED use in the sport.
I spoke up not because I want to see the industry that has given me so much get put in the lime light for something so negative. I spoke up because as the owner of a Physical Therapy and Sports Performance center I wanted to make sure I was competing on a level playing field. If riders are being told by AGENTS, TM's, PARENTS and SPONSORS that they need to train with a certain person or certain facility because the have the "GOOD" stuff I wanted to know about it. I also know the consequences that occur to athletes who can't afford the "GOOD" stuff but still want to dope. These are the athletes that end up dying on training rides or while competing at an event.

Now that JT and Matthes have said what they said, why not have someone come in and ask the difficult questions?

The following article is well written and gives some very good insight into how well PEDS work.
https://www.outsideonline.com/1924306/drug-test
Welp,

kkawboy14
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12/13/2017 10:33pm Edited Date/Time 12/13/2017 10:39pm
twotwosix wrote:
Have you taken anything? Have you trained or developed a program for anyone who has? Please don’t patronize me and try to tell me about what...
Have you taken anything? Have you trained or developed a program for anyone who has? Please don’t patronize me and try to tell me about what elevated testosterone levels do buddy. It’s virtually impossible to get a TUE for any anabolic compound or derivative of testosterone with USADA.
kkawboy14 wrote:
You are the man, glad your hear! Like I said a testosterone cream wouldn’t elevate you to a failing test!
Rhino wrote:
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day? Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole...
Bullshit. Are you rubbing 10 tubes a day all over your body, every day?

Patches the same. Some guys were wearing them all over their whole body when they couldnt get their injectables through customs.

I know a guy whos blood panel showed 1479 for test using cream.. Thats plenty over "Normal"

Some guys were using raws and dissolving into DMSO and rubbing it all over their bodies when their supplier was out.
Depends on the extremes you're willing to go.
What I’m trying to say but doesn’t seem to be coming thru is that a guy could use testosterone cream in a way that doesn’t get him busted, when in reality he should not be using it at all!

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