mx vs atv all out

flatout111
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9/20/2017 9:01am
flatout111 wrote:
All that does somewhat make sense. However, if it is mission impossible how do you explain the fact that it has already happened with 4 different...
All that does somewhat make sense. However, if it is mission impossible how do you explain the fact that it has already happened with 4 different developers and 5 different games in the past? Granted, quite a while ago, but still happened under pretty much the same individual track ownership.

MX2002 and Superfly from THQ

EA Supercross 2001 with Unadilla and Washougal

Supercross Circuit from 989 with nearly all the Nationals

One of the McGrath games. Can't remember exactly which one.
tprice07 wrote:
I've never understood licensing in video games. In my mind, the OEM's and gear brands should be paying to be in the game. It's free advertising...
I've never understood licensing in video games.

In my mind, the OEM's and gear brands should be paying to be in the game. It's free advertising. Would Feld pay Honda to show their logo all over a track? No. Why does Honda pay Feld? Exposure.

Companies pay millions of dollars for exposure. So why the heck to video game developers have to pay to give their brand exposure. The approach needs to change. Take in some stats, show you sold x amount of games. Give them some data...I know whenever I used to play I would play for hours and hours each week. If I'm a brand and someone says hey we can put your brand in front of a demographic that wants your products specifically for hours on end....and we will do it for free. I would jump. Further yet...figure up how much it costs to design/model their item in the game. Charge that to them for advertising. If they have an attorney that says they want NBA pricing..laugh at them and say...that's fine your competition will be in the game and you won't.

The approach I believe MXGP has taken is as follows. THEY want to grow MXGP. Youthstream, track promotors, riders, and Milestone all want MXGP to grow and thrive. I believe they sell that to everyone involved. Who isn't on board with that model.
Well said.
VilloFan951
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9/20/2017 11:44am
I liked alive a lot. I was way better on there then reflex. There was some things like the whip glitch I hated in reflex but being able to scrub in alive was awesome. I just want a game that has redbud so I can hit the leap lol
-MAVERICK-
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9/20/2017 12:35pm
MR. X wrote:
I wonder if it would be legal to build replica tracks of the old national tracks that arnt with us anymore.
Totally legal. You can't copyright a layout. Might have difficulty using the name if it's Trademarked but other than that you can build as much replica tracks as you please. Other way around it is add an extra obstacle and it's different enough they can't do anything about it.

Some pro's have had some replica SX tracks built in advance of the actual race and I doubt they paid any licensing fees to have the right to build it in their backyard. Only fee was to the track builder.
RangerLee
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9/20/2017 1:00pm
flatout111 wrote:
Outdoor tracks have always been owned by individual owners so I, too, don't understand why it can't be done now when 15 years ago their likenesses...
Outdoor tracks have always been owned by individual owners so I, too, don't understand why it can't be done now when 15 years ago their likenesses, or at least names, were used in MX2002, Superfly, EA Supercross (which had two outdoor replica tracks...Unadilla and Washougal, if I remember correctly) as well as one of the MC games.

It can be done and hopefully it is happening. At least the maps if nothing else but would really like true replicas in maps, locations and settings and names.
RangerLee wrote:
Licensing is the first hurdle, as they are individual and not under an umbrella agreement it would take a lot of work and the worst case...
Licensing is the first hurdle, as they are individual and not under an umbrella agreement it would take a lot of work and the worst case are owners that see a "video game" wanting to use their track and demand millions in licensing. 12 tracks, maybe more, not worth the cost. (source is myself, work in IT security and have worked for a game developer before).

I have seen some of the emails going back and forth for off road games for an in production Rally style racing game. The cost for some of the short tracks that the owners were demanding were insane. One of the lawyers even threw out the rumored Licensing that NBA teams get for their games, which honestly, MX, offroad and Rally would LOVE to bring in the kind of money the NBA brings in.

The producer would have to feed money in to meetings with each owner and be willing to show the costs involved and try to partner with those owners in someway. Show value outside of the cash they would get. If the cost/benefit analysis is not high enough then it is easier to make your own tracks and not worry about those sunk costs. For supercross though, Feld and the AMA are the two they would need to negotiate with when it comes to tracks. The riders are a whole new level to have actual rider names in the game.
You would think the OEM's/track owners would agree to allow it for free for advertising. The owner/OEM allows licensing in consideration for advertising. I could make...
You would think the OEM's/track owners would agree to allow it for free for advertising. The owner/OEM allows licensing in consideration for advertising. I could make a case that the track owners/OEM's should be paying to have their stuff included.
I never said it was impossible, and I would also say a good executive with a good talent in sales and/or marketing could get the price down low. Again most of the time it comes from track owners thinking the game developer has so many mega millions and they can get a piece of that, hell most developers are barely making it, it is the producer/publishers with the big money and game release is where the developers will really see some income.

That said there are ways to replicate tracks, they could put a track that is the exact layout as Unadilla, they could not call it Unadilla or anything close though. Even any grandstands or announcers booths would need to be different, but essentially you would have the track. Most of us would not like that though, we want a Unadilla named Unadilla.

The advertising is something I always thought would be a biggie for licensing, let gamers play their favorite bike, it helps with brand loyalty. Have your track done real well in the game and get people to want to come out and ride it.

I also always wondered if a track owner could monetize sign sponsors for their track in game, working with the developers/publisher. Local sponsors could have a sign like they physically have in real life, shown in the game, so players will see it as they race around. Just like IRL, they will pay a sponsors fee to be there, the game would get some and the track would get a percentage. This could cover the cost of licensing if done right.

Overall, what the hell do I know, I carried a rifle in the Army while jumping out of planes and went to school for Computer Science and an MBA in management, not marketing.

The Shop

flatout111
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9/20/2017 1:16pm Edited Date/Time 9/20/2017 1:18pm
There are definite ways to work around things by changing the layout a bit or not using real names. However Rainbow's Mike Mamula builds the outdoor track maps and MVA actually sponsor the outdoor maps. So I don't think they would build anything that is sorta cheating to get close to a replica without having MX Sports blessing.
RangerLee
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9/20/2017 5:13pm
On a side note, all this talk had me fire up MX vs ATV encore, I have all the 2017 SX tracks as well. I suck at the game, always have. What is this clutch boost you talk about. I agree any boost is lame in a MX game, but if there is one I want to know how to use it.

I just cannot seem to get a flow going, whether on a Rhythm race or SX/MX race, I just cannot seem to clear jumps properly.
kott0n
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9/20/2017 5:43pm
RangerLee wrote:
On a side note, all this talk had me fire up MX vs ATV encore, I have all the 2017 SX tracks as well. I suck...
On a side note, all this talk had me fire up MX vs ATV encore, I have all the 2017 SX tracks as well. I suck at the game, always have. What is this clutch boost you talk about. I agree any boost is lame in a MX game, but if there is one I want to know how to use it.

I just cannot seem to get a flow going, whether on a Rhythm race or SX/MX race, I just cannot seem to clear jumps properly.
Hit the clutch while wfo and it will jump about 20mph in 5ft. This combined with starting nose high, doing a whip and dropping the front will get you insane distance, too much.
flatout111
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9/21/2017 10:11am
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the works. I know we just got PR a week ago but seems like lots of people have played new game...riders/industry people...so hoping to get full report.
AP_151
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9/21/2017 10:19am
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive with the seat bounce button, at least that made sense.
-MAVERICK-
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9/21/2017 10:32am
flatout111 wrote:
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the...
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the works. I know we just got PR a week ago but seems like lots of people have played new game...riders/industry people...so hoping to get full report.
Michael said he played it for around 2 hours so I'm assuming he got to play it when they visited Vital.
aeffertz
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9/21/2017 10:42am
AP_151 wrote:
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive...
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive with the seat bounce button, at least that made sense.
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled back on the right stick, so all you have to do is push the stick up if you want a bit more distance on the jump.
flatout111
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9/21/2017 10:57am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2017 10:58am
AP_151 wrote:
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive...
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive with the seat bounce button, at least that made sense.
aeffertz wrote:
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled...
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled back on the right stick, so all you have to do is push the stick up if you want a bit more distance on the jump.
I disagree. Pushing up is not natural at all. Reflex was just lean back at face of jump. Alive expanded that by leaning back but also implemented seat bouncing by clicking down on right stick (R3). It wasn't a button per se. It was clicking down on right stick to seat bounce. So you had more control. And of course the main issue with the flip up preload is that they've always made it so ridiculously excessive.
flatout111
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9/21/2017 10:59am
flatout111 wrote:
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the...
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the works. I know we just got PR a week ago but seems like lots of people have played new game...riders/industry people...so hoping to get full report.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Michael said he played it for around 2 hours so I'm assuming he got to play it when they visited Vital.
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
-MAVERICK-
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9/21/2017 11:13am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2017 11:13am
flatout111 wrote:
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the...
Is it still in the plans for Rainbow to visit Vital MX? Or has that already happened? I thought I remembered hearing that was in the works. I know we just got PR a week ago but seems like lots of people have played new game...riders/industry people...so hoping to get full report.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Michael said he played it for around 2 hours so I'm assuming he got to play it when they visited Vital.
flatout111 wrote:
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha stage.

There's a reason there's still no video on their website. Might get something in November/December since it's suppose to be released in early 2018. Until then don't expect too much except maybe new info and still pictures.

Edit: Are you on PS4, Xbox One or PC?
zehn
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9/21/2017 11:39am
AP_151 wrote:
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive...
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive with the seat bounce button, at least that made sense.
aeffertz wrote:
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled...
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled back on the right stick, so all you have to do is push the stick up if you want a bit more distance on the jump.
Push button is way more predictable and you don't risk fucking up your line as much.
flatout111
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9/21/2017 11:46am
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Michael said he played it for around 2 hours so I'm assuming he got to play it when they visited Vital.
flatout111 wrote:
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha...
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha stage.

There's a reason there's still no video on their website. Might get something in November/December since it's suppose to be released in early 2018. Until then don't expect too much except maybe new info and still pictures.

Edit: Are you on PS4, Xbox One or PC?
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming.

Yeah I doubt we get video but hoping for in depth impressions. However, seems several people have played and seen it so that seems odd unless the game is at least in a pretty good state o be shown.
rob mx
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9/21/2017 11:50am
who cares when it comes out looks horrible anyway ...if u wanna see a sweet new game coming out check out
http://lcqstudios.com/ that game is gonna be amazing...rainbow went downhill when robb rinard left after mcm2







flatout111
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9/21/2017 11:52am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2017 11:53am
AP_151 wrote:
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive...
Glad there's another moto game coming but never understood the flick-to-preload. The only time I think Rainbow got that anywhere close to right was in Alive with the seat bounce button, at least that made sense.
aeffertz wrote:
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled...
The flick to preload was the best way, not a push button. Feels the most comfortable and makes the most sense, control wise. You're always pulled back on the right stick, so all you have to do is push the stick up if you want a bit more distance on the jump.
zehn wrote:
Push button is way more predictable and you don't risk fucking up your line as much.
Clicking R3 for seat bounce was nice and intuitive. The flip up seems so...dare I say it....dated
...like Unleashed. Not my favorite game or control method. And I agree, it is very unpredictable. It just feels dated and wrong, to me that is.
APerry151
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9/21/2017 11:52am Edited Date/Time 9/21/2017 11:54am
Note the gear and RPM indicators in addition to the speedometer. That's new right? I know Encore had an option to shift manually but RPM's were never really a factor. Wonder if this means they're addressing the engine physics.


flatout111
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9/21/2017 12:07pm
rob mx wrote:
who cares when it comes out looks horrible anyway ...if u wanna see a sweet new game coming out check out http://lcqstudios.com/ that game is gonna...
who cares when it comes out looks horrible anyway ...if u wanna see a sweet new game coming out check out
http://lcqstudios.com/ that game is gonna be amazing...rainbow went downhill when robb rinard left after mcm2







Well, honestly I care. About all MX games. And since I need trained AI this and the MXGP series are my preferred games. Taking solo laps gets old and unless the AI is trained that is what you have to do with the PC games.

As I've stayed before, what I want in a game is basically what MXGP does replicating an authentic real series with real riders. I just want an AMA version of that.
-MAVERICK-
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9/21/2017 12:30pm
flatout111 wrote:
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
Yup. Thought I remembered that. Hoping we get a full report with maybe pics, video and detailed impressions when he can...if allowed by Rainbow.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha...
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha stage.

There's a reason there's still no video on their website. Might get something in November/December since it's suppose to be released in early 2018. Until then don't expect too much except maybe new info and still pictures.

Edit: Are you on PS4, Xbox One or PC?
flatout111 wrote:
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming. Yeah I doubt we get video but...
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming.

Yeah I doubt we get video but hoping for in depth impressions. However, seems several people have played and seen it so that seems odd unless the game is at least in a pretty good state o be shown.
I'm on PS4. It's a shame you don't get to play online. The AI in games even at the hardest become so easy after a while that you're always out front by a mile. Online it seems like you're always in a battle with someone no matter how good or bad you are at the game.

The good news about All Out is that they are bringing back the 2 player split screen. Online is fun and all but in my opinion nothing beats being in the same room with a buddy talking moto and talking trash lol.
flatout111
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9/21/2017 1:05pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2017 1:06pm
-MAVERICK- wrote:
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha...
Might get a report but don't expect pics or a video. The game is still in development and they usually don't release anything during the Alpha stage.

There's a reason there's still no video on their website. Might get something in November/December since it's suppose to be released in early 2018. Until then don't expect too much except maybe new info and still pictures.

Edit: Are you on PS4, Xbox One or PC?
flatout111 wrote:
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming. Yeah I doubt we get video but...
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming.

Yeah I doubt we get video but hoping for in depth impressions. However, seems several people have played and seen it so that seems odd unless the game is at least in a pretty good state o be shown.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I'm on PS4. It's a shame you don't get to play online. The AI in games even at the hardest become so easy after a while...
I'm on PS4. It's a shame you don't get to play online. The AI in games even at the hardest become so easy after a while that you're always out front by a mile. Online it seems like you're always in a battle with someone no matter how good or bad you are at the game.

The good news about All Out is that they are bringing back the 2 player split screen. Online is fun and all but in my opinion nothing beats being in the same room with a buddy talking moto and talking trash lol.
Yeah, I've got a group of die-hard MX buddies I play games with at our homes. Nothing beats that. I also like playing season mode ala Madden. But my buddies play like I do. Trying to make it feel as real as possible although we're playing a more Simcade experience.

I've played online before. Its great sometimes but unless you get with people playing your style with your idea of what MX should be it often is frustrating. Still, would be nice to have the option.
-MAVERICK-
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9/21/2017 1:18pm
flatout111 wrote:
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming. Yeah I doubt we get video but...
Xbox One but I don't play online. I have to use mifi for high speed so no online gaming.

Yeah I doubt we get video but hoping for in depth impressions. However, seems several people have played and seen it so that seems odd unless the game is at least in a pretty good state o be shown.
-MAVERICK- wrote:
I'm on PS4. It's a shame you don't get to play online. The AI in games even at the hardest become so easy after a while...
I'm on PS4. It's a shame you don't get to play online. The AI in games even at the hardest become so easy after a while that you're always out front by a mile. Online it seems like you're always in a battle with someone no matter how good or bad you are at the game.

The good news about All Out is that they are bringing back the 2 player split screen. Online is fun and all but in my opinion nothing beats being in the same room with a buddy talking moto and talking trash lol.
flatout111 wrote:
Yeah, I've got a group of die-hard MX buddies I play games with at our homes. Nothing beats that. I also like playing season mode ala...
Yeah, I've got a group of die-hard MX buddies I play games with at our homes. Nothing beats that. I also like playing season mode ala Madden. But my buddies play like I do. Trying to make it feel as real as possible although we're playing a more Simcade experience.

I've played online before. Its great sometimes but unless you get with people playing your style with your idea of what MX should be it often is frustrating. Still, would be nice to have the option.
If you ever jump ship and come to the PS4 look in the communities and search for Vital MX. I created a private community for Vital members. Can't remember how many people are in the group but pretty sure there's enough for a full gate online.

You might want to look at creating one for Xbox One and ask the Vital members that are on that console for their gamertags/names.

Private communities sure cut down on the 12 year old bitching and complaining saying Bro/Nigga every few words. Only so much of that you can take online before you feel like teleporting across the world and rip their head off. Good thing you can mute players.
rob mx
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9/21/2017 5:29pm
flat oot stick to mxgp series these clowns that make mx vs atv are gonna put out the same garbage...i been on mx simulator for a few months its very challenging
flatout111
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9/21/2017 6:52pm
rob mx wrote:
flat oot stick to mxgp series these clowns that make mx vs atv are gonna put out the same garbage...i been on mx simulator for a...
flat oot stick to mxgp series these clowns that make mx vs atv are gonna put out the same garbage...i been on mx simulator for a few months its very challenging
You all know that am hoping for that Milestone Supercross game. Now THAT will be as good as it gets...for me.
akmx17
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9/21/2017 7:05pm
rob mx wrote:
flat oot stick to mxgp series these clowns that make mx vs atv are gonna put out the same garbage...i been on mx simulator for a...
flat oot stick to mxgp series these clowns that make mx vs atv are gonna put out the same garbage...i been on mx simulator for a few months its very challenging
Dude you're so cool.
EZZA 95B
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9/22/2017 2:34am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 2:38am
I just ride around on the 650 with the Upgrade frame, use the clutch and rarely need to preload. It's not fast, but I have heaps of fun. That's what's good about this game, you can play it how you want... Unless you race online.

[embed]
flatout111
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9/22/2017 4:24am
EZZA 95B wrote:
I just ride around on the 650 with the Upgrade frame, use the clutch and rarely need to preload. It's not fast, but I have heaps...
I just ride around on the 650 with the Upgrade frame, use the clutch and rarely need to preload. It's not fast, but I have heaps of fun. That's what's good about this game, you can play it how you want... Unless you race online.

[embed]
I'm doing all I can to slow this game down to more of the Reflex or Alive game speed so the last thing I want to do is use a 650. Bit hey, glad you're having fun!
Aaryn234
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9/22/2017 4:44am
flatout111 wrote:
All that does somewhat make sense. However, if it is mission impossible how do you explain the fact that it has already happened with 4 different...
All that does somewhat make sense. However, if it is mission impossible how do you explain the fact that it has already happened with 4 different developers and 5 different games in the past? Granted, quite a while ago, but still happened under pretty much the same individual track ownership.

MX2002 and Superfly from THQ

EA Supercross 2001 with Unadilla and Washougal

Supercross Circuit from 989 with nearly all the Nationals

One of the McGrath games. Can't remember exactly which one.
tprice07 wrote:
I've never understood licensing in video games. In my mind, the OEM's and gear brands should be paying to be in the game. It's free advertising...
I've never understood licensing in video games.

In my mind, the OEM's and gear brands should be paying to be in the game. It's free advertising. Would Feld pay Honda to show their logo all over a track? No. Why does Honda pay Feld? Exposure.

Companies pay millions of dollars for exposure. So why the heck to video game developers have to pay to give their brand exposure. The approach needs to change. Take in some stats, show you sold x amount of games. Give them some data...I know whenever I used to play I would play for hours and hours each week. If I'm a brand and someone says hey we can put your brand in front of a demographic that wants your products specifically for hours on end....and we will do it for free. I would jump. Further yet...figure up how much it costs to design/model their item in the game. Charge that to them for advertising. If they have an attorney that says they want NBA pricing..laugh at them and say...that's fine your competition will be in the game and you won't.

The approach I believe MXGP has taken is as follows. THEY want to grow MXGP. Youthstream, track promotors, riders, and Milestone all want MXGP to grow and thrive. I believe they sell that to everyone involved. Who isn't on board with that model.
Could not agree more.

Video games are the easiest and quickest way to advertise to young riders and old riders alike.

My six year old son knows who most the top U.S Supercross riders are as we watch SX week in week out and the American MX as it is shown on pay TV in Australia.

He rarley watches the MXGP races as I normally just download or watch live on my lap top in the early hours of the morning.

Yet when Herlings raced the American MX round a few weeks ago my Son knew who he way!

Hey day, that is the rider in the game! Said the same thing when he seen a youtube video of Cairoli, reconised the bike and number from the game.

If I am a gear manufacture, bike manufacture, hard parts supplier, rider, I am doing everything in my power to have my product in that game, having it in the game at no cost would be a massive bonus.

The sport is not big enough to be asking for licencing money. Its actually is in the opposite boat where the free publicity would be priceless.
flatout111
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9/22/2017 11:59am Edited Date/Time 9/22/2017 12:09pm
I remember back in the early 90s I got NHL 93 on Genesis. I knew nothing about the sport but thru EA's games I learned every player, every team and all the gear. The same thing would happen for MX if the companies would let it.

Video games are an easy way for companies and the sport to gain new fans. But the companies can't be greedy.

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