So guess who won? 450 Shootout is live...

BobPA
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BobPA 12/10/2016 11:47am
12/10/2016 11:47am
slipdog wrote:
And FMF's dyno is considered to be more reliable than Race Tech's because...???
nytsmaC wrote:
Because he probably has a KTM sticker in the back window of his truck.
tek14 wrote:
I dont have truck :) FMF dyno or RaceTech.. it was just about 16/17 numbers for same bike. This is what was starting point of talking...
I dont have truck Smile
FMF dyno or RaceTech.. it was just about 16/17 numbers for same bike.
This is what was starting point of talking about Husky/KTM/Yamaha when motors didnt change from 2016 to 2017 and we see different results..
VitalMX 2016 / RaceTech;:


My god can you not grasp the concept that all dynos read differently? Dynos are good for head to head comparisons...the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.
slipdog
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slipdog 12/10/2016 11:51am
12/10/2016 11:51am
nytsmaC wrote:
Because he probably has a KTM sticker in the back window of his truck.
tek14 wrote:
I dont have truck :) FMF dyno or RaceTech.. it was just about 16/17 numbers for same bike. This is what was starting point of talking...
I dont have truck Smile
FMF dyno or RaceTech.. it was just about 16/17 numbers for same bike.
This is what was starting point of talking about Husky/KTM/Yamaha when motors didnt change from 2016 to 2017 and we see different results..
VitalMX 2016 / RaceTech;:


BobPA wrote:
My god can you not grasp the concept that all dynos read differently? Dynos are good for head to head comparisons...the numbers should be taken with...
My god can you not grasp the concept that all dynos read differently? Dynos are good for head to head comparisons...the numbers should be taken with a grain of salt.
As well as bikes of the same model, see my earlier post about identical 250f's.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 11:53am
12/10/2016 11:53am
Interesting shootout thanks ML and his crew, very informative....looks like a KTM, Husky or Honda and you cant go wrong...the price difference with the honda and KTM/Husky you could get the suspension up to par. but in all reality you could win on any brand (with some perhaps with some extra dollars invested).

A very enjoyable read.
slipdog
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slipdog 12/10/2016 11:54am
12/10/2016 11:54am
Liebs138 wrote:
i have an RMZ but good argument boys. Because i question a poor dyno test with zero consistency i ride a kawi haha. I had a...
i have an RMZ but good argument boys. Because i question a poor dyno test with zero consistency i ride a kawi haha. I had a pet crow with better reasoning than you two plugs. Keep fighting for that minimum wage increase fellas! Your burger skills arent unappreciated!
All you need to do is ad some A1, a few drops of Worcestershire sauce and some garlic powder and you'll be grilling like a champ too, Bro!

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JB 19
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JB 19 12/10/2016 11:56am
12/10/2016 11:56am
Zachintosh wrote:
Michael (or any tester): Do the Husky 450's "advantages" carry over to the 350?
Good question. I'm curious as well.

Great shootout. Good info for people who are buying, but can't ride all the bikes.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 11:58am
12/10/2016 11:58am
TheGetFresh wrote:
Of the three riders 6 feet or taller, the Honda ranked 2,1,1. The bike is small and even looks a little silly under a tall rider...
Of the three riders 6 feet or taller, the Honda ranked 2,1,1. The bike is small and even looks a little silly under a tall rider, but it sounds like it works well for the bigger guys.
You would be surprised when riding one, it does NOT feel small/cramped Smile ...although feels very light.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 12/10/2016 11:59am
12/10/2016 11:59am
Liebs138 wrote:
i have an RMZ but good argument boys. Because i question a poor dyno test with zero consistency i ride a kawi haha. I had a...
i have an RMZ but good argument boys. Because i question a poor dyno test with zero consistency i ride a kawi haha. I had a pet crow with better reasoning than you two plugs. Keep fighting for that minimum wage increase fellas! Your burger skills arent unappreciated!
slipdog wrote:
All you need to do is ad some A1, a few drops of Worcestershire sauce and some garlic powder and you'll be grilling like a champ...
All you need to do is ad some A1, a few drops of Worcestershire sauce and some garlic powder and you'll be grilling like a champ too, Bro!
It's all in how you prep the grill, bro!
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 12:02pm
12/10/2016 12:02pm
731chopper wrote:
I think some people may take these bike shootouts a little too seriously. I love all the data. I find it odd how Yamaha has failed...
I think some people may take these bike shootouts a little too seriously.

I love all the data. I find it odd how Yamaha has failed to slim their bike down over the past few years.
Wait until 2018...I am betting a new Yammy that is slimmed down
ML512
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ML512 12/10/2016 12:04pm
12/10/2016 12:04pm
tek14 wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/12/02/162625/s1200_450DynoPNGweb.jpg[/img]
Liebs138 wrote:
This makes sense! Who did your dyno numbers ML the janitor? Good lord you guys should really double check that stuff before putting it out into...
This makes sense! Who did your dyno numbers ML the janitor? Good lord you guys should really double check that stuff before putting it out into the public. I dont care who wins but thats amateur hour.
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in our Shootout were dynoed within a 1 hour window, using the same tire and tire pressure. All used pump gas (I dumped all the tanks to make sure they had the same batch of fuel). The Kawi 450 seems to be one of the most unusual bikes to dyno as the results Race Tech have from 16s and 17s vary the most (although, all brands vary a little bike-to-bike, some are just worse than others) our last year's bike was one of the best stock KX450Fs they've ever dynoed while this year's was one of the lowest. I snagged another bike from Kawasaki to run again, and the results were within .3 of HP while another private bike was in the middle of this years and last years.
JB 19
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JB 19 12/10/2016 12:09pm
12/10/2016 12:09pm
nytsmaC wrote:
Because he probably has a KTM sticker in the back window of his truck.
slipdog wrote:
Actually I looked at his history since he only has 11 posts and he has a kx 450. Guess which 450 is the slowest in the...
Actually I looked at his history since he only has 11 posts and he has a kx 450. Guess which 450 is the slowest in the Vital shootout?
Liebs138 wrote:
i have an RMZ but good argument boys. Because i question a poor dyno test with zero consistency i ride a kawi haha. I had a...
i have an RMZ but good argument boys. Because i question a poor dyno test with zero consistency i ride a kawi haha. I had a pet crow with better reasoning than you two plugs. Keep fighting for that minimum wage increase fellas! Your burger skills arent unappreciated!
You sound like some car guy who goes to the shops with dynojet dynos instead of a mustang dyno just so you can post higher horsepower numbers.

DUDE, my flowmasters made way more than your flowmasters.
snape99
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snape99 12/10/2016 12:10pm
12/10/2016 12:10pm
Great read. Cheers
jeffro503
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jeffro503 12/10/2016 12:16pm
12/10/2016 12:16pm
My 16 Kawi dyno'd about 2 - 3hp more than what this test says the 17' Kawi did? I don't get that. But I will say....even though my bike looks to be down on power compared to most of these new 17' models....I'm happy as hell it isn't putting out 58hp! I wanted a slightly slower , but thinner feeling 450 to ride , and this 16' Kawi I have fits the bill perfectly for me. I sit on these new KTM's , Husky's and Yamaha's...and they feel freakin' huge and wide compared to my Kawi. " For me ".....and I think most others....you just have to pick the bike that you feel the most comfortable on. Thanks for the test though Vital and Michael.
TheOriginalPancakee 12/10/2016 12:23pm
12/10/2016 12:23pm
Liebs138 wrote:
Those dyno numbers are out to lunch. Last years bikes were so much different. The ktm and husky swapped horespower. Yamaha down 2.5ish. Kawi down 4ish...
Those dyno numbers are out to lunch. Last years bikes were so much different. The ktm and husky swapped horespower. Yamaha down 2.5ish. Kawi down 4ish. Suzuki down 2 ish. Honda up 6 which makes sense with the new package. You mean to tell me the husky has 9 more hp than the kawi. Haaaa. Did you use a different dyno than last year?
Agreed
TheOriginalPancakee 12/10/2016 12:24pm
12/10/2016 12:24pm
Guys at the end of the day anyone can do good on any of those bikes so whatever bike you get you'll do just fine.
Myke
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Myke 12/10/2016 12:29pm
12/10/2016 12:29pm
Good read. Thanks for taking the time.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 12:35pm
12/10/2016 12:35pm
ML512 wrote:
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in...
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in our Shootout were dynoed within a 1 hour window, using the same tire and tire pressure. All used pump gas (I dumped all the tanks to make sure they had the same batch of fuel). The Kawi 450 seems to be one of the most unusual bikes to dyno as the results Race Tech have from 16s and 17s vary the most (although, all brands vary a little bike-to-bike, some are just worse than others) our last year's bike was one of the best stock KX450Fs they've ever dynoed while this year's was one of the lowest. I snagged another bike from Kawasaki to run again, and the results were within .3 of HP while another private bike was in the middle of this years and last years.
and that should shut up all the negative talk about the dyno results...
bvm111
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bvm111 12/10/2016 12:39pm
12/10/2016 12:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2016 12:45pm
ML512 wrote:
http://www.vitalmx.com/features/2017-Vital-MX-450-Shootout,5128 So be warned, two things are missing. One, the data acquisition... Second, the 350 didn't make it to the dyno chart due to a glitch...
http://www.vitalmx.com/features/2017-Vital-MX-450-Shootout,5128

So be warned, two things are missing. One, the data acquisition... Second, the 350 didn't make it to the dyno chart due to a glitch... Both should be fixed by this evening but I wanted to get the piece out for everyone to read, so there ya be!

Lastly, did anyone guess the results correctly? Wink
bvm111 wrote:
Holy cow Michael.... that was so in depth that my feet fell asleep reading this on the shitter this morning! Honestly though much better than the...
Holy cow Michael.... that was so in depth that my feet fell asleep reading this on the shitter this morning!

Honestly though much better than the predictable MXA shootouts, interesting that the Husky was rated consistently higher than even the KTM. Now I'm even more confused than I was yesterday when I was sure I was getting the KX over the KTM 350 or 450.... maybe the husky would look better next to my KX250 in the garage than the KTM... ahhhh the first world problems we have! Tongue
slipdog wrote:
The FC 450 would look even better next to a TC 250 in your garage. Woohoo Silly Laughing
Smart Aleck!!! Wink
gsxr6
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gsxr6 12/10/2016 12:39pm
12/10/2016 12:39pm
I doubt Yamaha thinks the race tech dyno is high lol and besides ml has tiny little baby hands. I read it online hehe

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Liebs138
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Liebs138 12/10/2016 12:42pm
12/10/2016 12:42pm
ML512 wrote:
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in...
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in our Shootout were dynoed within a 1 hour window, using the same tire and tire pressure. All used pump gas (I dumped all the tanks to make sure they had the same batch of fuel). The Kawi 450 seems to be one of the most unusual bikes to dyno as the results Race Tech have from 16s and 17s vary the most (although, all brands vary a little bike-to-bike, some are just worse than others) our last year's bike was one of the best stock KX450Fs they've ever dynoed while this year's was one of the lowest. I snagged another bike from Kawasaki to run again, and the results were within .3 of HP while another private bike was in the middle of this years and last years.
kiwifan wrote:
and that should shut up all the negative talk about the dyno results...
None of that info is new. I get it. Whatever the results are im over it. The only logical explanation is that dyno run must have been after slipdogs motor mods. It lost 6 hp but dont worry it runs strong on the track!! Stick to the burgers bro! Slipdog on the seasoning NystmastaC on the grill.
sebastianer 12/10/2016 12:47pm
12/10/2016 12:47pm
this shootout was awesome ! and its probably going to make my wallet thin i need a fc450/350.
and the dyno talk i cant understand how some of you start talking smack about what last years bikes made for hp ! it doesen´t matter what last years bikes made for hp that could differ in so many ways from time to time(air temp,different dyno, fuel,air density) you can and only compere bikes on the same dyno and time, and thats exactly whats ML512 did so stop being stupid.
Liebs138
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Liebs138 12/10/2016 1:11pm
12/10/2016 1:11pm
sebastianer wrote:
this shootout was awesome ! and its probably going to make my wallet thin i need a fc450/350. and the dyno talk i cant understand how...
this shootout was awesome ! and its probably going to make my wallet thin i need a fc450/350.
and the dyno talk i cant understand how some of you start talking smack about what last years bikes made for hp ! it doesen´t matter what last years bikes made for hp that could differ in so many ways from time to time(air temp,different dyno, fuel,air density) you can and only compere bikes on the same dyno and time, and thats exactly whats ML512 did so stop being stupid.
Whats the point of doing a dyno if you change all those variables? You dont know what your talking about at all.

Its in a controlled environment. Indoor. Same temp and hopefully density, fuel.
Jimmy_Sloan
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Jimmy_Sloan 12/10/2016 1:18pm
12/10/2016 1:18pm
Where was the CR500R?
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 12/10/2016 1:20pm
12/10/2016 1:20pm
ML512 wrote:
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in...
Hey amateur, dynos are extremely subjective. I've seen numbers higher than FMFs and lower, dyno brand and formulas make a big difference. All the bikes in our Shootout were dynoed within a 1 hour window, using the same tire and tire pressure. All used pump gas (I dumped all the tanks to make sure they had the same batch of fuel). The Kawi 450 seems to be one of the most unusual bikes to dyno as the results Race Tech have from 16s and 17s vary the most (although, all brands vary a little bike-to-bike, some are just worse than others) our last year's bike was one of the best stock KX450Fs they've ever dynoed while this year's was one of the lowest. I snagged another bike from Kawasaki to run again, and the results were within .3 of HP while another private bike was in the middle of this years and last years.
kiwifan wrote:
and that should shut up all the negative talk about the dyno results...
Liebs138 wrote:
None of that info is new. I get it. Whatever the results are im over it. The only logical explanation is that dyno run must have...
None of that info is new. I get it. Whatever the results are im over it. The only logical explanation is that dyno run must have been after slipdogs motor mods. It lost 6 hp but dont worry it runs strong on the track!! Stick to the burgers bro! Slipdog on the seasoning NystmastaC on the grill.
slippy's motor mods will bring you down way more than 6hp, don't let ML off the hook so easy.
nytsmaC
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nytsmaC 12/10/2016 1:21pm
12/10/2016 1:21pm
Liebs138 wrote:
Whats the point of doing a dyno if you change all those variables? You dont know what your talking about at all. Its in a controlled...
Whats the point of doing a dyno if you change all those variables? You dont know what your talking about at all.

Its in a controlled environment. Indoor. Same temp and hopefully density, fuel.
Yup and none of the 2016 bikes were there for this test, so why compare apples to oranges?
mxb2
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mxb2 12/10/2016 1:32pm
12/10/2016 1:32pm
Great shootout, 98% of vital will be the same rider on any bike. Pick a color,dealer,support etc.
ob
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ob 12/10/2016 1:48pm
12/10/2016 1:48pm
I agree it was a great shootout, lots of info. I hate the magazine test with no real info at all. Only "I felt comfortable on this" bla bla bla. Great job everyone involved.
brimx153
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brimx153 12/10/2016 1:52pm
12/10/2016 1:52pm
mxb2 wrote:
Great shootout, 98% of vital will be the same rider on any bike. Pick a color,dealer,support etc.
this
coastlinecascot 12/10/2016 2:10pm
12/10/2016 2:10pm
When I rode a 16 ktm450 being 6'4" felt really cramped like a bicycle.
Tarz483
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Tarz483 12/10/2016 2:18pm
12/10/2016 2:18pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
When I rode a 16 ktm450 being 6'4" felt really cramped like a bicycle.
Are there any that u dont feel cramped on ?
sebastianer 12/10/2016 2:20pm
12/10/2016 2:20pm
Liebs138 wrote:
Whats the point of doing a dyno if you change all those variables? You dont know what your talking about at all. Its in a controlled...
Whats the point of doing a dyno if you change all those variables? You dont know what your talking about at all.

Its in a controlled environment. Indoor. Same temp and hopefully density, fuel.
yes the 17s bikes are all compareble, the point is now we know which 2017 bike run the best on dyno. but then you starting to talk about what hp bikes put down last year and that´s not comparable with this years bikes.

Post a reply to: So guess who won? 450 Shootout is live...