Chase format coming 2017!

kott0n
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10/19/2016 8:47am
mx617 wrote:
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going...
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going to win 11 of 17 in a chase.

Different track designs, soils, conditions, etc. Hell, bring back the popsicle stick draw for gate pick.
2 strokes. The equalizer for privateers.
10/19/2016 9:05am
mx617 wrote:
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going...
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going to win 11 of 17 in a chase.

Different track designs, soils, conditions, etc. Hell, bring back the popsicle stick draw for gate pick.
kott0n wrote:
2 strokes. The equalizer for privateers.
how?
kott0n
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10/19/2016 9:43am
mx617 wrote:
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going...
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going to win 11 of 17 in a chase.

Different track designs, soils, conditions, etc. Hell, bring back the popsicle stick draw for gate pick.
kott0n wrote:
2 strokes. The equalizer for privateers.
ajmag247 wrote:
how?
The same way 2 strokes took over 50 years ago. No displacement rules. You ride what you brought.

If you can pilot a 500 2 stroke in a modern frame, you should be able to race it. Let the privateers compete again on bored 300's if thats what it takes. The displacement gap isn't really the same when all the tech has gone into 4 strokes recently, but that doesn't mean smaller cc'd 2 strokes couldn't compete, just has to be more cc's than the current 250.

I know factory teams sell bikes BUT SO DO PRIVATEERS competing on the national level. 2 strokes close the gap between full blown race bikes costing $25k+


What they have created in SX today is whats called "bracket racing".

mxmoron
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10/19/2016 10:17am
Whenever I see this topic I immediately cringe and hope that Supercross doesn't go Chase.

The main reason for considering a Chase type format is to keep the battle for the championship going until the end of the season. I would agree that it's more exciting to watch a championship go down to the wire. But I don't think Chase is the right way to go.

Maybe allowing riders to drop a number of their bad races should be considered. We're already familiar with the system and see how well it works for the MXdN.

Keep the points the same but reverse them. Low score wins.

Riders can drop their 4 worst races. Except 4 select rounds: 1. 6. 11. second last.

This should help keep the points chase tighter and give injured riders a chance to minimize any points loss.

Just an idea but better than Chase.
























The Shop

Mr. Info
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10/19/2016 11:37am
Who cares and why?
Phillip_Lamb
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10/19/2016 2:34pm
this is my problem

a chase format detracts from having a long series period.

what everyone wants is a close battle all the way to the end. Right?

But the battle is cheapened if the series is effectively shortened or reset.

A chase format is a joke.
Falcon
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10/19/2016 2:51pm
Dudes who have built a career on being there at every round are going to lose interest. No wonder Dungey is contemplating retirement.
chump6784
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10/19/2016 5:38pm
No need for a chase format. I think dropping a certain number of your worst races would be better. A guy like Dungey who finishes on the podium nearly every week is going to have pretty much the same result but if another rider can drop a dnf or two then that will close the gap.

I also like the MEC format of 2 or 3 shorter mains. That way the whole night doesn't hinge on one event
Johnny Depp
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10/19/2016 6:00pm
Follow the money. If you are a promoter and want to increase your income by adding races, but there is no interest, well...

I would rather be interested than not.
TeamGreen
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10/19/2016 6:58pm
I'm hearing the chase might be on the ropes
10/19/2016 8:31pm
Rope a dope that idea and drop it...

Terrible idea, more rounds, closer points payout ( 25-24-23-22- ) to keep it tighter and let the guys who earn it throughout the season walk away with the title. Make it MEAN more...

10/19/2016 8:58pm
mx617 wrote:
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going...
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going to win 11 of 17 in a chase.

Different track designs, soils, conditions, etc. Hell, bring back the popsicle stick draw for gate pick.
kott0n wrote:
2 strokes. The equalizer for privateers.
Yeah that creates diversity... During the last 2 decades of two strokes how many races were won by someone other than MC, RC, CR or JS?

If anything fourstrokes made the racing more level once the exemption rules for the manufacturers expired.
mx617
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10/19/2016 10:16pm
How about rather than bigger 2 strokes we look at smaller 4 strokes. I remember an episode of Top Gear when they were comparing driving a Ferrari (or something like that) on the edge to driving a shit box on the edge. The Ferrari was faster of course, but the shit box was more fun.

Modern bikes have so much power that only a select few can really ride them on the edge. Maybe smaller motors would tighten things up a bit? Indoors at least?
The Rock
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10/19/2016 10:39pm
What don't we wait to hear specifics of Chase before saying it sucks?
The Rock
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10/19/2016 10:42pm
mx617 wrote:
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going...
There's got to be a way to create variability in who wins each week. If Dunge wins 11 of 17 in the current format he's going to win 11 of 17 in a chase.

Different track designs, soils, conditions, etc. Hell, bring back the popsicle stick draw for gate pick.
kott0n wrote:
2 strokes. The equalizer for privateers.
tcannon521 wrote:
Yeah that creates diversity... During the last 2 decades of two strokes how many races were won by someone other than MC, RC, CR or JS...
Yeah that creates diversity... During the last 2 decades of two strokes how many races were won by someone other than MC, RC, CR or JS?

If anything fourstrokes made the racing more level once the exemption rules for the manufacturers expired.
Your last paragraph couldn't be more wrong.

Talk to someone with knowledge of building race motors and get back with us please to let us know if you are standing by your comment.
Katoomey
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10/19/2016 11:25pm Edited Date/Time 10/19/2016 11:26pm
tcannon521 wrote:
Yeah that creates diversity... During the last 2 decades of two strokes how many races were won by someone other than MC, RC, CR or JS...
Yeah that creates diversity... During the last 2 decades of two strokes how many races were won by someone other than MC, RC, CR or JS?

If anything fourstrokes made the racing more level once the exemption rules for the manufacturers expired.
the four riders you listed only raced in the last decade of 2 strokes. Not one of them won a race in the decade before that, unless you're counting PW50's
10/19/2016 11:47pm
Rope a dope that idea and drop it... Terrible idea, more rounds, closer points payout ( 25-24-23-22- ) to keep it tighter and let the guys...
Rope a dope that idea and drop it...

Terrible idea, more rounds, closer points payout ( 25-24-23-22- ) to keep it tighter and let the guys who earn it throughout the season walk away with the title. Make it MEAN more...

25-24-23-22 reduces the need to make moves. makes 4th and first nearly the same thing. Would be great for #5. You want that gap from 1 to 2 to mean something or else everyone please follow the leader and try again next week.
bobojim
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10/20/2016 1:27am
No chase.
Slightly staggered start for me. E.g top 5 next to each other, next 5 slightly back etc. maybe only 1 m back, so the effect is small, but puts the fast guys together.
Indy mxer
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10/20/2016 3:55am
bobojim wrote:
No chase. Slightly staggered start for me. E.g top 5 next to each other, next 5 slightly back etc. maybe only 1 m back, so the...
No chase.
Slightly staggered start for me. E.g top 5 next to each other, next 5 slightly back etc. maybe only 1 m back, so the effect is small, but puts the fast guys together.
I've said this for a while now. All major forms of racing reward the fastest qualifiers. Just getting a better gate pick isn't enough. Yeah, seeing 20 riders start dead even is cool for a few seconds but then the racing goes to shit.

A few of the slower guys will get lucky and basically hold up some of the faster riders who didn't nail the start. Then by the time they get around them the leader or leaders are gone. I would rather see the fast guys up front right from the start and watch them battle it out. Maybe 2 rows of 10?

Also, as far as the chase goes. Why not try it? it may work. If not, next year ditch it.

SX needs a shake up imo.
10/20/2016 4:27am
The Rock wrote:
What don't we wait to hear specifics of Chase before saying it sucks?
Because artificially and arbitrarily resetting the points in any format just plain sucks.
wreckitrandy
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10/20/2016 7:04am
The Rock wrote:
What don't we wait to hear specifics of Chase before saying it sucks?
Because artificially and arbitrarily resetting the points in any format just plain sucks.
Tell it TP! I'm too mad!
DoctorJD
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10/20/2016 7:17am
Haven't read all 13 pages of replies, so forgive me if this is redundant.

First off, if what I hear is true (that the Chase format is scrapped...for now) then great. It sucks in NASCAR, and it'll suck in moto. If you want to create more parity, then create a scoring format that both rewards consistency and doesn't penalize (too harshly) for an off-night.

The two-moto system, in my opinion, would do this. In the current points system, if Roczen gets taken out in the first turn and tweaks his bike to the point where it can't be ridden, he leaves the event with zero points. In a two-moto format, he has the opportunity to salvage points and NOT leave the race empty handed. 25 points is a almost insurmountable deficit to come back from. James Stewart and the GOAT could make up the points, but the current talent gap from 1st to 10th is so much closer than it was back in the mid 2000's.

The only other alternative would be to let the riders drop their worst score. I'm personally not a huge fan of this, but I would take it over a Chase-style format any day of the week.
The Rock
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10/20/2016 10:08am
The Rock wrote:
What don't we wait to hear specifics of Chase before saying it sucks?
Because artificially and arbitrarily resetting the points in any format just plain sucks.
I think it sucks to jump to the conclusion without having all the facts. NBD in the overall scheme of things but in the absence of data most people create just like you are. Personally I'm reserving judgment until I hear the Chase details.

BTW not everyone shares your Chase opinion particularly in NASCAR.
mauidex
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10/20/2016 10:28am
NASCAR needed the chase to combat NFL in the most important thing........TV ratings..........no such problem in SX but for sure it needs something...........I would like to see 2 15 lap mains.........scored individually...........starts and early laps is where the most action happens

as far as a chase goes there are not really 16 competitive riders for the tittle, if you're comparing to nascar........realistically after about 6 or 7 events there are maybe 4 guys that can win the title anyway....just like NASCAR final..........this all gets thrown out the window anyway with SX injuries, the built in chase system

dkg
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10/20/2016 10:36am Edited Date/Time 10/20/2016 10:36am
I don't really feel that the "Let's try it and if it doesn't work go to something else" argument is a rational approach to change at this level of the sport. There is the likelihood that nothing is broken so don't fix it.
hellion
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10/20/2016 10:41am
I'm definitely a traditionalist. I lost all interest in nascar when they went to the chase. I couldn't even tell you who the current champion is.

The only change that makes sense to me is the idea of doing two or three ten lap finals at each, or even selected rounds.

Team Ideal
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10/20/2016 11:40am
I pretty much quit watching Nascar when they started the chase also. they need to do something, change the point system or add points for heat wins or something, I'd just as soon it wouldn't be go to the chase format though.
10/20/2016 12:19pm
The season is already a chase format:

-The chase is about 17 races long
-There are probably about 5 or 6 riders that have a legitimate shot at winning
-During the chase, riders with no shot at winning the chase, sometimes impact riders who are in the chase
-The rider with the most points at the end of the chase wins the championship
10/20/2016 2:41pm
Rope a dope that idea and drop it... Terrible idea, more rounds, closer points payout ( 25-24-23-22- ) to keep it tighter and let the guys...
Rope a dope that idea and drop it...

Terrible idea, more rounds, closer points payout ( 25-24-23-22- ) to keep it tighter and let the guys who earn it throughout the season walk away with the title. Make it MEAN more...

25-24-23-22 reduces the need to make moves. makes 4th and first nearly the same thing. Would be great for #5. You want that gap from 1...
25-24-23-22 reduces the need to make moves. makes 4th and first nearly the same thing. Would be great for #5. You want that gap from 1 to 2 to mean something or else everyone please follow the leader and try again next week.
Actually it's the total opposite.

It will keep the points CLOSE through the entire season and make guys have to fight for those points, you will see more passing and aggression to gain those valuable points. vs people giving up when the leaders have a big enough points lead, also it will end the championships being decided with 4 rounds to go....
MXMattii
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10/20/2016 3:52pm
What if the chase format would work like followed:

All who win a main event gets in the chase. All who's in the first 8 in points gets in the case. Besides the normal points, you also get 'Podium credits'. These credits will be used to make an first standing to start the case with.

Example on hand of season 2016

Detroit is the last race for the normal points (round 11). That makes that Ryan Dungey, Ken Roczen, Jason Anderson, Eli Tomac, Marvin Musquin, Cole Seely, Chad Reed and Justin Brayton would be in the case. But imagine that someone outside the top 8 won a main event, that would also be OK to be in the chase.

Those 8, wouldn't start with 0 points at the start of the chase, because that would make all those efforts in the previous races useless. That why I created podium credits. (5 Points for 1ste, 3 points for 2nd and 1 point for 3th). That would shake things up a bit! Reed would jump from 7 to 5th. Marvin would jump from 5 to 4.

Ryan Dungey 39 credits
Ken Roczen 20 credits
Jason Anderson 11 credits
Marvin Musquin 10 credits
Chad Reed 7 credits
Eli Tomac 6 credits
Cole Seely 5 credits
Justin Brayton 0 credits

Then they should race 6 races, score normal points and those 8 can figure out who becomes champ. This would be the outcome in 2016 if they would've worked that way.

Ryan Dungey 177 Points
Ken Roczen 137 Points
Jason Anderson 126 Points
Eli Tomac 110 points
Chad Reed 97 points
Justin Brayton 72 points
Cole Seely 51 points
Marvin Musquin 46 points


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