Herlings haters look away for a moment, please

just James
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just James
After two (relatively unknown) dudes qualified for the 450 class on 250 two strokes at Southwick, it got me to wondering how Herlings could have done there on a two stroke.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think that he could have run right up near the front. Wouldn't that have been a hoot!
Of course we can't really know. Too bad.
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bvm111
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bvm111 7/12/2016 7:39pm
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early
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KirkChandler
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KirkChandler 7/12/2016 7:59pm
7/12/2016 7:59pm
B Practice.
steve_97060
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steve_97060 7/12/2016 8:09pm
7/12/2016 8:09pm
he probably would have lapped up to 11th place while never getting above third gear..

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burn1986
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burn1986 7/12/2016 8:31pm
7/12/2016 8:31pm
I'm not sure he would have done that great. Im not sure anyone could hold a candle to a 250f or 450f on a 2stroke. Granted, he is still Herlings, but it's a lot of horsepower and torque to make up.
colintrax
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colintrax 7/12/2016 8:44pm
7/12/2016 8:44pm
burn1986 wrote:
I'm not sure he would have done that great. Im not sure anyone could hold a candle to a 250f or 450f on a 2stroke. Granted...
I'm not sure he would have done that great. Im not sure anyone could hold a candle to a 250f or 450f on a 2stroke. Granted, he is still Herlings, but it's a lot of horsepower and torque to make up.
Gared Steinke was running in the top 20 before a crash.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 7/12/2016 8:52pm
7/12/2016 8:52pm
I think he would of done ok, but for someone to come off a factory 4 stroke and ride a modded race ready two stroke at its full potential is a big ask, if he came from a 250 2 stroke series where he was riding it every week, then he would have a much better chance...but we all know that wont happen anytime soon

I would love to also know what HP and torque numbers that KTM 250 is pumping out, might be quite a bit more than a race reliable modded two stroke? (I am not saying it does...I guess actually no one knows...just opinion)
Awesome Johnson 7/12/2016 8:54pm
7/12/2016 8:54pm
burn1986 wrote:
I'm not sure he would have done that great. Im not sure anyone could hold a candle to a 250f or 450f on a 2stroke. Granted...
I'm not sure he would have done that great. Im not sure anyone could hold a candle to a 250f or 450f on a 2stroke. Granted, he is still Herlings, but it's a lot of horsepower and torque to make up.
I think you missed the part where he said two relatively unknown dudes qualified on 250 two strokes in the 450 class. So that means that they did indeed hold a candle to everyone that didn't qualify all the while shredding on underpowered can barley get out of their own way 250 2 strokes. Really feel for those that didn't make the cut.
The Source 7/12/2016 9:09pm
7/12/2016 9:09pm
Pichon was dominating the combined 250/450 class in the GP's in 2003 on his Suzuki 250 2stroke. He was running down Everts and actually a lot of the teams were still running 250 2strokes and doing quite well, Pichon would have won the class if he hadn't got injured during a sighting lap, just a slow tip over with the knee in the wrong place.
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slipdog 7/12/2016 9:20pm
7/12/2016 9:20pm
Last time Herlings rode a 2 stroke he broke his leg... Just sayin'
zehn
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zehn 7/12/2016 9:49pm
7/12/2016 9:49pm
The Source wrote:
Pichon was dominating the combined 250/450 class in the GP's in 2003 on his Suzuki 250 2stroke. He was running down Everts and actually a lot...
Pichon was dominating the combined 250/450 class in the GP's in 2003 on his Suzuki 250 2stroke. He was running down Everts and actually a lot of the teams were still running 250 2strokes and doing quite well, Pichon would have won the class if he hadn't got injured during a sighting lap, just a slow tip over with the knee in the wrong place.
Great apples-to-oranges comparison.

4 strokes have some such a long way since 2003 that trying to compare a 2016 factory bike to a 2003 factory bike is laughable
scottydogmx 7/12/2016 10:25pm
7/12/2016 10:25pm
The Source wrote:
Pichon was dominating the combined 250/450 class in the GP's in 2003 on his Suzuki 250 2stroke. He was running down Everts and actually a lot...
Pichon was dominating the combined 250/450 class in the GP's in 2003 on his Suzuki 250 2stroke. He was running down Everts and actually a lot of the teams were still running 250 2strokes and doing quite well, Pichon would have won the class if he hadn't got injured during a sighting lap, just a slow tip over with the knee in the wrong place.
zehn wrote:
Great apples-to-oranges comparison. 4 strokes have some such a long way since 2003 that trying to compare a 2016 factory bike to a 2003 factory bike...
Great apples-to-oranges comparison.

4 strokes have some such a long way since 2003 that trying to compare a 2016 factory bike to a 2003 factory bike is laughable
Yeah, but imagine how good a factory 2 stroke would be by now!!
RPM68
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RPM68 7/12/2016 10:29pm
7/12/2016 10:29pm
kiwifan wrote:
I think he would of done ok, but for someone to come off a factory 4 stroke and ride a modded race ready two stroke at...
I think he would of done ok, but for someone to come off a factory 4 stroke and ride a modded race ready two stroke at its full potential is a big ask, if he came from a 250 2 stroke series where he was riding it every week, then he would have a much better chance...but we all know that wont happen anytime soon

I would love to also know what HP and torque numbers that KTM 250 is pumping out, might be quite a bit more than a race reliable modded two stroke? (I am not saying it does...I guess actually no one knows...just opinion)
I'd disagree, I have always ridden 2 strokes better than 4, but only when coming off a 4. After riding a 2 smoke for a while, ya lose that spiff ya get.

Riding a 250f is extremely similar to a 250 2 stroke. Wide open, bottom line. These guys are banging 450s to the limit, 350s, 250f's. It's all the same, just learning when to shift. When racing the best in the world, even Eli on his 450 couldn't win without a start...

if you don't start with the leaders you won't beat em, ask Eli...this is not the 90's, or even the 2000's era, get the fuck over it and quit making me brain hurt at such a late time of the evening.

For those saying look at stank dog doin top 20's, guess what, he is a better rider, imagine if he was on a factory 250...top 10's? Top 5's even?!?! Nobody would care if he was getting 8ths on his 250f's. He gets his attention through hard work and dedication...and premix! Can you name who got 8th overall this weekend off top of your head? Didn't think so...

Sorry,

Sir Rant-A-Lot
kiwifan
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kiwifan 7/12/2016 10:49pm
7/12/2016 10:49pm Edited Date/Time 7/12/2016 10:54pm
RPM68 wrote:
I'd disagree, I have always ridden 2 strokes better than 4, but only when coming off a 4. After riding a 2 smoke for a while...
I'd disagree, I have always ridden 2 strokes better than 4, but only when coming off a 4. After riding a 2 smoke for a while, ya lose that spiff ya get.

Riding a 250f is extremely similar to a 250 2 stroke. Wide open, bottom line. These guys are banging 450s to the limit, 350s, 250f's. It's all the same, just learning when to shift. When racing the best in the world, even Eli on his 450 couldn't win without a start...

if you don't start with the leaders you won't beat em, ask Eli...this is not the 90's, or even the 2000's era, get the fuck over it and quit making me brain hurt at such a late time of the evening.

For those saying look at stank dog doin top 20's, guess what, he is a better rider, imagine if he was on a factory 250...top 10's? Top 5's even?!?! Nobody would care if he was getting 8ths on his 250f's. He gets his attention through hard work and dedication...and premix! Can you name who got 8th overall this weekend off top of your head? Didn't think so...

Sorry,

Sir Rant-A-Lot
Fair points, lets agree to disagree about Herlings and 2 strokes :-)

The Stankdog issue, IF he had a factory ride would he be killing it...subjective...logic says he might but on his 450 he wasnt getting much better results....given there is a Honda/Suzuki/Kawasaki 450 ride free at the moment then if you think the factories were interested he would be riding one now?
lostboy819 7/12/2016 11:45pm
7/12/2016 11:45pm
4+4 = jello
jamma10
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jamma10 7/13/2016 2:22am
7/13/2016 2:22am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2016 2:29am
150cc first, then a 250cc at 2.49m...

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jamma10
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jamma10 7/13/2016 2:36am
7/13/2016 2:36am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2016 2:41am
For what it's worth I don't think Herlings would have walked it at Southwick on any bike.

I reckon Tomac was probably on the limit around there, I don't think it's a cert that Herlings would have gone much faster. Herlings tends to excel when a sand track gets really beat up and choppy and he can find a rhythm and flow that other riders can't match.
EnvyMedia 7/13/2016 3:01am
7/13/2016 3:01am
jamma10 wrote:
For what it's worth I don't think Herlings would have walked it at Southwick on any bike. I reckon Tomac was probably on the limit around...
For what it's worth I don't think Herlings would have walked it at Southwick on any bike.

I reckon Tomac was probably on the limit around there, I don't think it's a cert that Herlings would have gone much faster. Herlings tends to excel when a sand track gets really beat up and choppy and he can find a rhythm and flow that other riders can't match.
I think Tomac has the same ability as Herlings to just put out crazy fast laps. In the first moto when Tomac passed roczen he was putting out 2:06's while roczen was in 2:11 still. Also MXDN in Teutschental the first moto before his crash he was faster than everybody else same as in Latvia.
motomike137
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motomike137 7/13/2016 3:32am
7/13/2016 3:32am
jamma10 wrote:
For what it's worth I don't think Herlings would have walked it at Southwick on any bike. I reckon Tomac was probably on the limit around...
For what it's worth I don't think Herlings would have walked it at Southwick on any bike.

I reckon Tomac was probably on the limit around there, I don't think it's a cert that Herlings would have gone much faster. Herlings tends to excel when a sand track gets really beat up and choppy and he can find a rhythm and flow that other riders can't match.
EnvyMedia wrote:
I think Tomac has the same ability as Herlings to just put out crazy fast laps. In the first moto when Tomac passed roczen he was...
I think Tomac has the same ability as Herlings to just put out crazy fast laps. In the first moto when Tomac passed roczen he was putting out 2:06's while roczen was in 2:11 still. Also MXDN in Teutschental the first moto before his crash he was faster than everybody else same as in Latvia.
Tomac and Herlings both like to fly closer to the sun than most riders. They both seem to possess that "aw f-ck it" mentality and ability to just hang it out above and beyond even super talented guys like Kenny. The upside is blazing fast laps at times and we all know the down side but it sure is fun to watch I'll tell you that!
crusty_xx 7/13/2016 5:16am
7/13/2016 5:16am
I can't imagine anyone going around that track much faster then what Eli and Ken did.
Maybe he would win it on a 450 but it would be close.
On a 250... Never
MXD
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MXD 7/13/2016 5:43am
7/13/2016 5:43am
KirkChandler wrote:
B Practice.
Most don't understand the significance of this at Southwick and how it so heavily favors the locals.
just James
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just James 7/13/2016 6:12am
7/13/2016 6:12am
I'd bet that he (Herlings) wonders about it, though apparently not enough to find out.
And I don't necessarily mean on a two stroke.
benchracermx 7/13/2016 6:21am
7/13/2016 6:21am
Did roczen not get well into top ten a few years ago on a 125 against 250f??
early
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early 7/13/2016 6:25am
7/13/2016 6:25am
KirkChandler wrote:
B Practice.
MXD wrote:
Most don't understand the significance of this at Southwick and how it so heavily favors the locals.
Heres some numbers to put to it.

Here is Mr. Marshalls qualifying time set on the first flying lap of B practice.


Here are his moto 2 lap times


Here are Eli Tomacs moto 2 lap times

As you can see Marshalls race laps are a ways from the leaders.

Going by these numbers, the fact that 2 2 strokes qualified well has very little influence on the question of would JH run with Kenny or Eli, 2 stroke or 4 stroke. (Personally I think he would have finished at least 3rd on a 450)
Muscle-Milk-KTM 7/13/2016 8:19am
7/13/2016 8:19am
early wrote:
Heres some numbers to put to it. Here is Mr. Marshalls qualifying time set on the first flying lap of B practice. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/07/13/143395/s1200_Screenshot_2016_07_13_07_12_27.jpg[/img] Here are his...
Heres some numbers to put to it.

Here is Mr. Marshalls qualifying time set on the first flying lap of B practice.


Here are his moto 2 lap times


Here are Eli Tomacs moto 2 lap times

As you can see Marshalls race laps are a ways from the leaders.

Going by these numbers, the fact that 2 2 strokes qualified well has very little influence on the question of would JH run with Kenny or Eli, 2 stroke or 4 stroke. (Personally I think he would have finished at least 3rd on a 450)
I take it you didn't see the riding clinic he put on at the 2012 MXON's.
crusty_xx 7/13/2016 8:26am
7/13/2016 8:26am
Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:
I take it you didn't see the riding clinic he put on at the 2012 MXON's.
Southwick and Lommel are about as comparable as Anaheim 1 and the Thailand GP. Go Febvre
Muscle-Milk-KTM 7/13/2016 9:11am
7/13/2016 9:11am
crusty_xx wrote:
Southwick and Lommel are about as comparable as Anaheim 1 and the Thailand GP. Go Febvre
What about Southwick & Valkenswaard, both not deep sand?
early
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early 7/13/2016 9:24am
7/13/2016 9:24am Edited Date/Time 7/13/2016 9:28am
Muscle-Milk-KTM wrote:
I take it you didn't see the riding clinic he put on at the 2012 MXON's.
The intent of my post was to show that the reasoning behind the op's original question is dumb. Marshall put in a fast lap on the smoothest track of the day then was over 10 seconds off the pace in the second moto. There is pretty much nothing there that gives any indication to how JH would do on a 250 2 stroke.

I said I thought JH would finish AT LEAST 3rd on a 450, that means i think he has the potential to win. To STAMP a win for JH if he was there saturday is just foolish.

Post a reply to: Herlings haters look away for a moment, please