Dungey and Malcolm

731chopper
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4/24/2016 7:25am
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to win no matter what his points lead is.
Jimmy_Sloan
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4/24/2016 7:46am
731chopper wrote:
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to...
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to win no matter what his points lead is.
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some set up issues.

davistld01
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4/24/2016 8:07am
731chopper wrote:
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to...
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to win no matter what his points lead is.
No doubt, but Dungey is far from an idiot that throws away a championship trying to feed his ego either. It's called "managing a championship".
731chopper
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4/24/2016 8:09am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2016 8:20am
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some...
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some set up issues.

I'm just reiterating what he said. He mentioned that he works too hard and his team works too hard to settle for anything.

To me it looked like Kenny and Eli passing him rattled him. He started riding tight and making mistakes. Anderson got by and after that he calmed down, got back into his rhythm and then put himself back into third. That's why he got third place yesterday, not because he was settling for a podium. He could break his femur this week and it would be bye bye championship. While highly unlikely it is possible and that is why you never settle.

*edit* The interview I was thinking of is his post race interview with Matthes in St Louis for anyone that cares.

The Shop

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4/24/2016 8:12am
Dungey played it smart. I don't care what anyone says. He knows the championship is his and if he would of crashed and dnf last night that would of been awful. Better to get a top 5 than risking a dnf. That being said roczen was on fire.
ToolMaker
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4/24/2016 8:15am
level wrote:
They got championship on there mind and looking at big picture. Playing it smart so good for them. Shows you how much extra they normally push...
They got championship on there mind and looking at big picture. Playing it smart so good for them. Shows you how much extra they normally push it when they are winning.
Dungey could go much faster tonight but all that work and results all year long all he needs to do is stay in top 5 or so rest of rounds and it's his.
Katoomey wrote:
You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time. Your argument is whats known as...
You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time.

Your argument is whats known as unverifiable/unfalsifiable. In informal logic, it would fall under rhetoric. Basically, its meaningless.

I'm calling it nonsense anyway. They were at the will of others tonight, not their own. Plain and simple.
"You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time"
Uhm, no. This is a very relevant strategy late in the season when one controls their own destiny which is the case right now. There is just no upside to ride the edge on a track like this unless you're KR that has to prove as much to himself as potential sponsors that he is as good as we claim he can be.

"Your argument is whats known as unverifiable/unfalsifiable. In informal logic, it would fall under rhetoric. Basically, its meaningless."
While "unverifiable/unfalsifiable" it is also a very used strategy by any mature racer that sees the big picture in all racing series. And yes it is unverifiable as no quality racer would admit they were were not giving it their all for their fans and sponsors, but in reality it happens all the time. To not acknowledge that, is just closed minded.

"I'm calling it nonsense anyway. They were at the will of others tonight, not their own. Plain and simple."
While KR and ET did ride faster, it's a rather hollow victory in that it means nothing to RD and the series.
So now what? RD would like to win but knows it's not necessary. So I believe the only thing he will challenge himself for is to extend his podium stretch for the record books, but if a win without excessive risk is available, he'll go for that too.
TM
Spiralham432
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4/24/2016 8:17am
731chopper wrote:
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to...
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to win no matter what his points lead is.
davistld01 wrote:
No doubt, but Dungey is far from an idiot that throws away a championship trying to feed his ego either. It's called "managing a championship".
That's the way dungey always rides though. People are delusional to think RD wasn't trying his hardest to win after getting the holeshot while all the KTM guys were there to watch him win and wrap up the championship. He even admitted he was trying to win. People see what they want to see.
matze
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4/24/2016 8:32am
731chopper wrote:
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to...
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to win no matter what his points lead is.
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some...
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some set up issues.

Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when roczen finally passes dungey for the lead. On the other hand, tomac has had terrible starts but yesterday he finally got it and was right there on kenny.
ATKpilot99
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4/24/2016 8:39am
matze wrote:
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when...
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when roczen finally passes dungey for the lead. On the other hand, tomac has had terrible starts but yesterday he finally got it and was right there on kenny.


Nice avatar.
matze
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4/24/2016 8:43am
ATKpilot99 wrote:
[img]https://totallyolivia.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/0.jpg[/img] Nice avatar.


Nice avatar.
Yes i know but thanksTongue
NotCore
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4/24/2016 8:44am
matze wrote:
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when...
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when roczen finally passes dungey for the lead. On the other hand, tomac has had terrible starts but yesterday he finally got it and was right there on kenny.
Remember the RC / JS battles in 06? How many times did we think that Stewart was just so much faster that there was no way that Ricky would be able to win. There were times when Stewart would win, and RC would come back so strong the next week. That's precisely what made him the GOAT. These are mental games.

RD won literally four in a row. This one was a must win for Roczen's ego, and not for Dungey. Roczen was on it. Simple as that.

Some times you have to let the rabbit run.
Katoomey
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4/24/2016 9:12am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2016 9:13am
ToolMaker wrote:
"You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time" Uhm, no. This is a very...
"You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time"
Uhm, no. This is a very relevant strategy late in the season when one controls their own destiny which is the case right now. There is just no upside to ride the edge on a track like this unless you're KR that has to prove as much to himself as potential sponsors that he is as good as we claim he can be.

"Your argument is whats known as unverifiable/unfalsifiable. In informal logic, it would fall under rhetoric. Basically, its meaningless."
While "unverifiable/unfalsifiable" it is also a very used strategy by any mature racer that sees the big picture in all racing series. And yes it is unverifiable as no quality racer would admit they were were not giving it their all for their fans and sponsors, but in reality it happens all the time. To not acknowledge that, is just closed minded.

"I'm calling it nonsense anyway. They were at the will of others tonight, not their own. Plain and simple."
While KR and ET did ride faster, it's a rather hollow victory in that it means nothing to RD and the series.
So now what? RD would like to win but knows it's not necessary. So I believe the only thing he will challenge himself for is to extend his podium stretch for the record books, but if a win without excessive risk is available, he'll go for that too.
TM
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the riders do or dont admit to, and no matter how much you analize it, the argument is invalid, technically speaking.

Of course racers dont risk as much when they already have a lock on the championship. Any idiot knows that. What you fail to understand is the competitive ego of a professional athlete, because you are likely not a competitive person. Dungey doesnt want to lose to anyone, ever. Sure, he may not ride outside of his comfort zone, but I dont think he was outside of his comfort zone yesterday. I just think he wasn't the fastest guy. ...but i also understand that this is an argument that no one can win.

...and for you to say Roczen's win was meaningless just shows that your not only ignorant to the difficulty of achieving a win in supercross, but also how little respect you have for this sport.
NotCore
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4/24/2016 9:22am
Katoomey wrote:
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the...
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the riders do or dont admit to, and no matter how much you analize it, the argument is invalid, technically speaking.

Of course racers dont risk as much when they already have a lock on the championship. Any idiot knows that. What you fail to understand is the competitive ego of a professional athlete, because you are likely not a competitive person. Dungey doesnt want to lose to anyone, ever. Sure, he may not ride outside of his comfort zone, but I dont think he was outside of his comfort zone yesterday. I just think he wasn't the fastest guy. ...but i also understand that this is an argument that no one can win.

...and for you to say Roczen's win was meaningless just shows that your not only ignorant to the difficulty of achieving a win in supercross, but also how little respect you have for this sport.
Lots of attitude, bravado, and ego in a post that ends with a point about respect.
Katoomey
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4/24/2016 9:31am
NotCore wrote:
Lots of attitude, bravado, and ego in a post that ends with a point about respect.
Huh? What does a individual participant's ego have to do with a spectators understanding, or respect, of a sport?

...great point.
cali11
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4/24/2016 9:33am
Dungey was in an unfortunate circumstance this weekend. He HAD to win to secure the title. Of course he could have won ( the main and...
Dungey was in an unfortunate circumstance this weekend. He HAD to win to secure the title. Of course he could have won ( the main and the title) so the victory celebration was planned, rehearsed and the KTM brass was flown in, etc. Talk about pressure and stress. He also could have wadded up on that rutted up no traction plywood track and shit canned the whole season. Now they can celebrate the championship in the Big Apple and the story is even better.
What happens if RD gets hurt or sick this week? Then he will think he should have went for the win.
cali11
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4/24/2016 9:51am
daemon616 wrote:
Um you're wrong. Malcom wouldn't even be in the position he's in if it weren't for a DNF by Jeremy Martin and a DNS by Davalos...
Um you're wrong. Malcom wouldn't even be in the position he's in if it weren't for a DNF by Jeremy Martin and a DNS by Davalos. They're clearly better riders on the 250F.
Have you even been watching any of the races? Don't let your hate blind you. MS50 has been faster than them at most races. He has made a ton of mistakes,crashes, been too the pits stalled bike last turn at Daytona etc etc. Aftter all that he is still the points leader! Dude was riding under pressure last nite. Even JT$ said he is the only one close on speed to Cooper. I'm sure your at the races more than him.
ToolMaker
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4/24/2016 9:58am
Katoomey wrote:
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the...
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the riders do or dont admit to, and no matter how much you analize it, the argument is invalid, technically speaking.

Of course racers dont risk as much when they already have a lock on the championship. Any idiot knows that. What you fail to understand is the competitive ego of a professional athlete, because you are likely not a competitive person. Dungey doesnt want to lose to anyone, ever. Sure, he may not ride outside of his comfort zone, but I dont think he was outside of his comfort zone yesterday. I just think he wasn't the fastest guy. ...but i also understand that this is an argument that no one can win.

...and for you to say Roczen's win was meaningless just shows that your not only ignorant to the difficulty of achieving a win in supercross, but also how little respect you have for this sport.
"...and for you to say Roczen's win was meaningless just shows that your not only ignorant to the difficulty of achieving a win in supercross, but also how little respect you have for this sport."

I guess an NFL head coach that puts in his second stringers late in the season when they have the stats all locked up prior to the playoffs and the win doesn't help them is also ignorant and has no respect for his sport. Whistling
What I believe is that Dungey is the most mentally mature racer of the top 5 that can make a decision whether to race for the win or let it go and take the championship. And I also believe that on any night there will be riders that are faster than Dungey. Last night KR might well have bested a motivated RD, but we'll never know because we don't know if RD is just in protection mode. This late in the season every rider has different goals. Until you understand that, the discussion is useless.
TM
BobbyM
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4/24/2016 10:31am Edited Date/Time 4/24/2016 10:36am
500guy wrote:
I think Malcolm got tight and was smart enough not to throw it all away. Dungey looked off and big deal Ken and Eli can race...
I think Malcolm got tight and was smart enough not to throw it all away.

Dungey looked off and big deal Ken and Eli can race real good after there is no chance of the championship.
And he knew that the kid in 2nd was a ways behind him and not in front of him. I'm impressed by Malcolm this year.
Jimmy_Sloan
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4/24/2016 11:26am
731chopper wrote:
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to...
Dungey said just the other week in one of the interviews that he never settles for a position during a race and is always trying to win no matter what his points lead is.
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some...
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some set up issues.

matze wrote:
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when...
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when roczen finally passes dungey for the lead. On the other hand, tomac has had terrible starts but yesterday he finally got it and was right there on kenny.
You keep saying that Roczen is the fastest and has been the fastest but Dungey beat him over and over. The race is from the start to the finish and the guy who finishes first is the fastest out there. Again, when has Dungey slipped back to fourth this season? I'm pretty sure Dungey and KTM have shifted focus to the outdoors, so Dungey probably struggled a bit in yesterday's race.
cali11
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4/24/2016 11:52am
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some...
How often do have you seen Dungey slip back to fourth this season? I think that obviously he wasn't feeling this track or was having some set up issues.

matze wrote:
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when...
Roczen was the past few weeks faster than ryan anyways, but ryan was amazing in defending his position. It was only a matter of time when roczen finally passes dungey for the lead. On the other hand, tomac has had terrible starts but yesterday he finally got it and was right there on kenny.
You keep saying that Roczen is the fastest and has been the fastest but Dungey beat him over and over. The race is from the start...
You keep saying that Roczen is the fastest and has been the fastest but Dungey beat him over and over. The race is from the start to the finish and the guy who finishes first is the fastest out there. Again, when has Dungey slipped back to fourth this season? I'm pretty sure Dungey and KTM have shifted focus to the outdoors, so Dungey probably struggled a bit in yesterday's race.
It's the bike! Laughing Laughing
Insider347
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4/24/2016 12:04pm
If you have watched every race this season, obviously Dungey was not feeling it for some reason yesterday. No excuses but just not the normal Dungey.
We who race know what it's like when you're on or just having a day you're not.
The_Giz
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4/24/2016 12:10pm
ToolMaker wrote:
"You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time" Uhm, no. This is a very...
"You could say this about any rider with the red plate who lost any race at any point in time"
Uhm, no. This is a very relevant strategy late in the season when one controls their own destiny which is the case right now. There is just no upside to ride the edge on a track like this unless you're KR that has to prove as much to himself as potential sponsors that he is as good as we claim he can be.

"Your argument is whats known as unverifiable/unfalsifiable. In informal logic, it would fall under rhetoric. Basically, its meaningless."
While "unverifiable/unfalsifiable" it is also a very used strategy by any mature racer that sees the big picture in all racing series. And yes it is unverifiable as no quality racer would admit they were were not giving it their all for their fans and sponsors, but in reality it happens all the time. To not acknowledge that, is just closed minded.

"I'm calling it nonsense anyway. They were at the will of others tonight, not their own. Plain and simple."
While KR and ET did ride faster, it's a rather hollow victory in that it means nothing to RD and the series.
So now what? RD would like to win but knows it's not necessary. So I believe the only thing he will challenge himself for is to extend his podium stretch for the record books, but if a win without excessive risk is available, he'll go for that too.
TM
Katoomey wrote:
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the...
You can believe whatever you want to. Pie in the sky. My only point was that no matter how you spin it, no matter what the riders do or dont admit to, and no matter how much you analize it, the argument is invalid, technically speaking.

Of course racers dont risk as much when they already have a lock on the championship. Any idiot knows that. What you fail to understand is the competitive ego of a professional athlete, because you are likely not a competitive person. Dungey doesnt want to lose to anyone, ever. Sure, he may not ride outside of his comfort zone, but I dont think he was outside of his comfort zone yesterday. I just think he wasn't the fastest guy. ...but i also understand that this is an argument that no one can win.

...and for you to say Roczen's win was meaningless just shows that your not only ignorant to the difficulty of achieving a win in supercross, but also how little respect you have for this sport.
He wasn't the fastest yesterday that pretty obvious, isn't it?

The question is, why?

The one answer for sure is, he didn't need to be! If you don't think the best riders in the world have the ability and choice to wick it up and push the envelope, or not, your crazy.

So was it a better setup and day for Ken than Ryan, maybe, but the point is, if Ryan had to push harder for a reason he could of and would of and what that would equaled, nobody knows. But he didn't need to and therefore he chose to cruise it a bit, but when the time came when he needed to lay it down to get in front of Anderson for the podium, he made it happen quickly.
matze
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4/24/2016 12:12pm
You keep saying that Roczen is the fastest and has been the fastest but Dungey beat him over and over. The race is from the start...
You keep saying that Roczen is the fastest and has been the fastest but Dungey beat him over and over. The race is from the start to the finish and the guy who finishes first is the fastest out there. Again, when has Dungey slipped back to fourth this season? I'm pretty sure Dungey and KTM have shifted focus to the outdoors, so Dungey probably struggled a bit in yesterday's race.
It feels like it was yesterday.. Oh wait it actually was yesterday he slipped to fourthLaughing
Stop making excuses and keep it real like dungey himself. When a rider says that he rode as hard as he can and the others where just faster, then trust me, it is the truth.
He deserves the championship theres no doubt about it and he was on it right from the beginning of the season, and nobody is as consistent as ryan. He rides like a machine, extremly fast - and that nearly without any mistakes.
But i think what most people forget is, roczen is only 21 years old. His prime time hasnt even started.
bd
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4/24/2016 12:24pm
NotCore wrote:
Maybe, but that's not what the accumulated points would indicate. Preparation and execution are key to SX and MX. Davalos lacked on the preparation so far...
Maybe, but that's not what the accumulated points would indicate. Preparation and execution are key to SX and MX. Davalos lacked on the preparation so far (dns) and Martin on the execution (dnf). Mookie has done better. No way to get around that, it's a fact based on the points so far, and that's how we measure SX.

I was surprised by plessinger. Thought he would be on it on that track and his position in the championship. Nerves? Or something else?

Martin rode as expected, and really same with davalos. They both have the speed to win for sure.
h&m_cycle wrote:
...
daemon616 wrote:
No only someone paying attention would accumulate that. He's not as good as they are period.
Heads up --- Mookie consistently had the fastest lap in practice and race. No doubt the title chase is draining him and J Mart has vast experience in winning titles. We have a 10 year picture to see Davalos patterns. Mook is far better than what you are giving him credit. Haters keep on hatin beeyotch!
plowboy
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4/24/2016 12:27pm
Two mindsets here fellas, fans that believe their favorite must not only win but dominate and those that recognize taking advantage where/ when possible and minimizing mistakes most often leads to championships. Roger won that way and it's working pretty well for Ryan. Ricky, Villo, MC were exceptions. At the end of the day Dungey will be in the record books while other "faster" riders may not. My .02.
mx836
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4/24/2016 12:34pm
Dungey wasn't holding anything back the two weeks prior so it would be foolish to say that he was holding back for the championship last night. He would have went on to win that race if he was capable of doing so. He didn't have the speed or comfort so he rode smart like he always does and got third. Tomac stepped up his game because it was more of an outdoor style track with all the ruts, just like he did at Daytona and Roczen has had more speed for weeks now. 3rd is what he deserved last night.
10000hrs
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4/24/2016 1:07pm
davistld01 wrote:
No doubt, but Dungey is far from an idiot that throws away a championship trying to feed his ego either. It's called "managing a championship".
Thats why we need a Chase format. To stop early leaders from "managing" championship in the later races.
Huevos
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4/24/2016 1:15pm
davistld01 wrote:
No doubt, but Dungey is far from an idiot that throws away a championship trying to feed his ego either. It's called "managing a championship".
10000hrs wrote:
Thats why we need a Chase format. To stop early leaders from "managing" championship in the later races.
Yes... because the rider who has hauled ass all season and won more races than everybody else combined deserves to have all his hard work taken away from him at the end of the season to make it more fair for the other racers. Bet you're voting for Bernie, too, huh?
Flatliner
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4/24/2016 3:06pm
davistld01 wrote:
No doubt, but Dungey is far from an idiot that throws away a championship trying to feed his ego either. It's called "managing a championship".
10000hrs wrote:
Thats why we need a Chase format. To stop early leaders from "managing" championship in the later races.
He wasn't an "early leader". He's kicked ass what, week two?
dhp_mma94
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4/24/2016 3:42pm
10000hrs wrote:
Thats why we need a Chase format. To stop early leaders from "managing" championship in the later races.
dumb!

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