Chase format coming 2017!

DPR250R
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2/25/2016 6:01pm
Juss wrote:
Kyle bush broke his leg and missed like the first 5 rounds. He still won the championship last year
If he missed 5 rounds how did he win the championship?
The Rock
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2/25/2016 6:05pm
the only way i see a chase system working is a two fold scoring system. first is the normal points awarding. but its just simple 20=1st...
the only way i see a chase system working is a two fold scoring system.

first is the normal points awarding. but its just simple 20=1st, 19 2nd, etc

second is a knockout system. a rider must finish within a cut to be eligible. rds 1-4 a rider must finish within top 20 each week.

rounds 5-8 must finish every race within top 15

rds 9-12 top 10

rds 12-14 top 5

rds 15-17 top 3

a secondary points system tracks those within the "knock out" series

and if you really want to get cutthroat, if at any time a rider fails to make a cut he is dropped. a rider must make the "cut" every round or he is dropped from the chase
Well I admit your proposal is straightforward. :-)
dkg
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2/25/2016 8:40pm
Some more thoughts.

I really don't like the chase idea. I basically started ignoring NASCAR when it started. I found the early rounds to be less important after it was implemented and the chase rounds to not truly reflect the best series driver/team.

Isn't there enough motivation to stimulate attendance at individual races simply to root on one's favorite rider at the event? This is a sport that rewards performance not entertainment that relies on artificially created excitement.

The reality is the cream of the crop will rise to the top. At most, a chase may only affect the outcome between 1-3 riders. Take a look at the fan distribution on this board. It covers a greater distribution than 1-3 riders. Does the chase really do anything to increase excitement? More likely, if one is only watching/attending events because one's favorite rider is in the hunt for the championship then a DNF or poor performance in a chase round would likely hurt interest and attendance as the number of events is so limited as to not allow for an opportunity to recover from a poor race result.

The chase concept truly does more to interject the random element of luck into determining the series champion. In a 6 race chase, each round is worth 16.66% of the total. In a 17 race series, each round is only 5.88% of the total. Do we want to risk a championship based on luck (i.e. A mechanical, crash with lapped rider, the flu etc.)

Finally, let's consider the logistics of a chase series. As it is now the races progress geographically around the country. In a chase series, unless the events are equally distributed acround the country, resulting in a much greater overhead both financially and personal to the teams, then the chase will limit exciting events to a narrow geographical portion of the country. I question how many of the less well funded teams could afford the cost of geographical diversity.

I can see the benefit of allowing a rider to perhaps drop their single worst event. Going much beyond this will probably have no influence on outcome at the cost of interjecting a greater percentage of luck into the championship. On the downside, the number of dropped events could result in greater pressure on a rider to return prematurely from an injury.
g0rd057
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2/25/2016 9:42pm Edited Date/Time 2/25/2016 9:44pm
Juss wrote:
Kyle bush broke his leg and missed like the first 5 rounds. He still won the championship last year
DPR250R wrote:
If he missed 5 rounds how did he win the championship?
He missed way more than 5 rounds. He was injured Feb 21, didn't return until May 24 (about 12 weeks\ 11 races) .... Timeline of Kyle Busch injury, Recovery

The Shop

kiwifan
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2/25/2016 10:01pm
To all those saying the new format sucks and is bullshit....why dont you see what its like first, for all you know it might be fucking great. You are all crying over spilt milk before the milk might be spilled.

jeffro503
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2/25/2016 10:56pm
Juss wrote:
Kyle bush broke his leg and missed like the first 5 rounds. He still won the championship last year
DPR250R wrote:
If he missed 5 rounds how did he win the championship?
g0rd057 wrote:
He missed way more than 5 rounds. He was injured Feb 21, didn't return until May 24 (about 12 weeks\ 11 races) .... [url=http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2015/4/15/kyle-busch-broken-legs-return-from-injury.html]Timeline of Kyle...
He missed way more than 5 rounds. He was injured Feb 21, didn't return until May 24 (about 12 weeks\ 11 races) .... Timeline of Kyle Busch injury, Recovery
Yes.....and this is the very reason why that shitty chase bullshit won't work in this sport if they actually run it like the Nascrap.

A " Chase " does nothing but hinder the leaders and help the guys who fell behind. You can drop three rounds??........What if you don't want / need to drop any??

Can't believe some of you guys are sticking up for this stupid shit. SX and MX have been ran a certain way for damn near a 1/2 a century,.....and now they want to make it an even more of a fucking clown circus.
Jimmy_Sloan
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2/26/2016 6:54am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2016 6:55am
kiwifan wrote:
To all those saying the new format sucks and is bullshit....why dont you see what its like first, for all you know it might be fucking...
To all those saying the new format sucks and is bullshit....why dont you see what its like first, for all you know it might be fucking great. You are all crying over spilt milk before the milk might be spilled.

Maybe they should award the title to the second place guy if he holeshots the last race since they will give a massive 150 points for the final race's holeshot leader. That would be cool!

We don't have to try an idea to know it's stupid.
2/26/2016 6:57am
This has been in the works for a while. It's happening.
2/26/2016 8:27am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2016 8:27am
kiwifan wrote:
To all those saying the new format sucks and is bullshit....why dont you see what its like first, for all you know it might be fucking...
To all those saying the new format sucks and is bullshit....why dont you see what its like first, for all you know it might be fucking great. You are all crying over spilt milk before the milk might be spilled.

If the milk is spoiled before it's spilled you throw it out and don't worry about spilling it. Not crying, just getting rid of something that's way past it expiration date. NASCAR has already proved that this kind of format only lasts a few seasons before you have to tweak it, consistently every few years, to keep it interesting. At that point, what's the point?

Jimmy Johnson won how many years in a row with the original format? Because the team and driver figured out how to play the system. A top class rider will do the same thing.
FLmxer
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2/26/2016 9:03am
They might have to reverse the schedule to keep attendence higher at the end or is that when everyone wants to go because the rest didn't really count anymore? So like a half season of practice rounds? Do they put the last rounds in the busiest venues or lowest attended? May help with testing since you can risk dnf because they don't really count until end right? Stewart might win the championship still if it was this year right?
I'm going riding, this shit is so 2017.
Park Boys
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2/26/2016 9:27am
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least you get points for every race. Our SX guys have more in common to F1 than NASCAR.. After all F1 drivers are the best in the world, not NASCAR. Just like the riders racing SX are the best SX riders in the world. Although F1 has its issues I would rather our sport copy them.
KennyT
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2/26/2016 10:12am
Park Boys wrote:
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least...
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least you get points for every race. Our SX guys have more in common to F1 than NASCAR.. After all F1 drivers are the best in the world, not NASCAR. Just like the riders racing SX are the best SX riders in the world. Although F1 has its issues I would rather our sport copy them.
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different winners per season, much like SX. That is why they are looking for change.


And BTW many great Open wheel drivers have been complete failures in NASCAR so your assumption that F1 has the best drivers is completely false.
kkawboy14
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2/26/2016 10:56am
I like it!

Most of the interest is in "who's gonna make the chase"

The battle between 8th 9th and 10th to get in is where the tv energy is generated.

How much does Fantasy Sports play into doing this?
2/26/2016 11:02am
This has been my point throughout this thread. In my opinion the issue isn't with the entire season and its structure. It's with the night shows. There's no ramifications a for a poor performance on the gate or heat, as there is so many opportunities to make up for it throughout the night and get right before any points are awarded. Start rewarding nightly accomplishments and the entire night show becomes more entertaining. Eliminate LCQ's award points for heat transfer spots, award points for heat and main holeshots. That way if a guy has an issue in the heat there is a consequence, if the start isn't right there's a consequence. rather than no big deal get to 4th in the heat or transfer from the semi, then make adjustments and go out in the main (the only points paying race out of 6 in a night) and win get max points. it will make the night show more interesting. Will it affect the season? With a guy like dungey maybe not, but there a higher probability at least. Better night shows will equal better season period, if championships are still blow outs and business demands change to the season then do it. Seems as though they are putting the cart before the horse a little.
kkawboy14
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2/26/2016 11:05am
30 man gates would make racing better!

Yeah lappers getting inthe way make for better tv!
h&m_cycle
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2/26/2016 11:11am
Juss wrote:
Kyle bush broke his leg and missed like the first 5 rounds. He still won the championship last year
DPR250R wrote:
If he missed 5 rounds how did he win the championship?
The Chase Was invented to keep Jimmy Johnson From Winning The Championship Every Year...
If you can't beat a guy change the rules... Everyone should get a trophy...

Ryan Dungey/Roger Decoster are not the fastest every week... Just the smartest for the championship...

Any of you seriously think last year when (Tomac was winning by a minute) that Ryan Dungey could not ride that pace?
I can't picture Dungey Driving a Pickup Truck ( in freezing rain) (with the cruise control on) (doing 70 mph either)...
Phillip_Lamb
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2/26/2016 11:57am
dkg wrote:
Some more thoughts. I really don't like the chase idea. I basically started ignoring NASCAR when it started. I found the early rounds to be less...
Some more thoughts.

I really don't like the chase idea. I basically started ignoring NASCAR when it started. I found the early rounds to be less important after it was implemented and the chase rounds to not truly reflect the best series driver/team.

Isn't there enough motivation to stimulate attendance at individual races simply to root on one's favorite rider at the event? This is a sport that rewards performance not entertainment that relies on artificially created excitement.

The reality is the cream of the crop will rise to the top. At most, a chase may only affect the outcome between 1-3 riders. Take a look at the fan distribution on this board. It covers a greater distribution than 1-3 riders. Does the chase really do anything to increase excitement? More likely, if one is only watching/attending events because one's favorite rider is in the hunt for the championship then a DNF or poor performance in a chase round would likely hurt interest and attendance as the number of events is so limited as to not allow for an opportunity to recover from a poor race result.

The chase concept truly does more to interject the random element of luck into determining the series champion. In a 6 race chase, each round is worth 16.66% of the total. In a 17 race series, each round is only 5.88% of the total. Do we want to risk a championship based on luck (i.e. A mechanical, crash with lapped rider, the flu etc.)

Finally, let's consider the logistics of a chase series. As it is now the races progress geographically around the country. In a chase series, unless the events are equally distributed acround the country, resulting in a much greater overhead both financially and personal to the teams, then the chase will limit exciting events to a narrow geographical portion of the country. I question how many of the less well funded teams could afford the cost of geographical diversity.

I can see the benefit of allowing a rider to perhaps drop their single worst event. Going much beyond this will probably have no influence on outcome at the cost of interjecting a greater percentage of luck into the championship. On the downside, the number of dropped events could result in greater pressure on a rider to return prematurely from an injury.
This brings up an interesting point. The obvious reason promoters are doing this is to asses in seats and line pockets with money. and the issue is by rnd 15 most years the title is a foregone conclusion and there is little interest.

but most people love going to watch races regardless i think. at least those who want to watch a pro race? think about it: how many local races do you go to to just watch? My self i go to a local race 2-3 times a year typically local am nationals.

with the final rounds ending in vegas and the other random west round in santa clara, perhaps the main issue is exhausting paying customers. 4 of the rounds (anaheim and sd) are local enough most fans arent stretching to attend in terms of distance. In this region, while its great for teams traveling, it may be an issue of a surplus of product. By rnd 6 fans in LA region have had 5 oppourtunities to drive to a race.

then add in vegas at the end of the season and no interest in the title hunt there is little reason for fans to attend.

does anyone have attendance records for seasons where title came down to vegas vs years it was already wrapped up?
Trav138
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2/26/2016 12:05pm
TeamGreen wrote:
"Any of you Homos touches me or my stuff? I'll kill ya!"

Great Post!
Thanks for the laughs Manny in this thread. I'm laid up after foot surgery and i LMFAO over that smackdown and not a peep from Zracer, good stuff.
bvm111
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2/26/2016 12:06pm
DPR250R wrote:
If he missed 5 rounds how did he win the championship?
g0rd057 wrote:
He missed way more than 5 rounds. He was injured Feb 21, didn't return until May 24 (about 12 weeks\ 11 races) .... [url=http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2015/4/15/kyle-busch-broken-legs-return-from-injury.html]Timeline of Kyle...
He missed way more than 5 rounds. He was injured Feb 21, didn't return until May 24 (about 12 weeks\ 11 races) .... Timeline of Kyle Busch injury, Recovery
jeffro503 wrote:
Yes.....and this is the very reason why that shitty chase bullshit won't work in this sport if they actually run it like the Nascrap. A "...
Yes.....and this is the very reason why that shitty chase bullshit won't work in this sport if they actually run it like the Nascrap.

A " Chase " does nothing but hinder the leaders and help the guys who fell behind. You can drop three rounds??........What if you don't want / need to drop any??

Can't believe some of you guys are sticking up for this stupid shit. SX and MX have been ran a certain way for damn near a 1/2 a century,.....and now they want to make it an even more of a fucking clown circus.
guess they wont have to be "in it to win it" anymore Jeff! Wink
2/26/2016 12:33pm
Park Boys wrote:
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least...
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least you get points for every race. Our SX guys have more in common to F1 than NASCAR.. After all F1 drivers are the best in the world, not NASCAR. Just like the riders racing SX are the best SX riders in the world. Although F1 has its issues I would rather our sport copy them.
KennyT wrote:
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different...
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different winners per season, much like SX. That is why they are looking for change.


And BTW many great Open wheel drivers have been complete failures in NASCAR so your assumption that F1 has the best drivers is completely false.
They did the double points race once. It was not well received and they never did it again.

Racing should never focus on passing as more important part of entertainment. Racing is about winning. I've never seen them throw a competition yellow in the Olympics just to make the 400m more thrilling.

They're often called some of the best drivers in the world because, along with their team, they must manage DRS gaps, MGU-K energy levels, MGU-H energy levels, ICE usage, High degradation tires that are temperature sensitive, etc. I don't agree with all of it and neither do some of the drivers.

Put NASCAR on a street course and road course for 20 straight rounds without caution's for needless shit and I bet you will see the cream rise to the top and maybe a handful of guys would win all the time. If everyone in F1 was in the exact same Mercedes as Hamilton and Rosberg they wouldn't be gapping the field like they do now.
FlaNard
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2/26/2016 1:42pm
If this turns out to be real I'll be amazed with the stupidity. I don't watch pre season in any other sport and that won't change here. Ten rounds of "5th is as good as a first so there is no point taking chances yet" sounds just great. If people think the racing is bad now just wait until the racers stop actually racing each other. I'm sure the attendance for the practice cross rounds will be stellar. Let me know which round actually counts and I'll watch that. I have no interest in people just trying to do good enough without taking any risks.
Ashleymx
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2/26/2016 1:47pm
FlaNard wrote:
If this turns out to be real I'll be amazed with the stupidity. I don't watch pre season in any other sport and that won't change...
If this turns out to be real I'll be amazed with the stupidity. I don't watch pre season in any other sport and that won't change here. Ten rounds of "5th is as good as a first so there is no point taking chances yet" sounds just great. If people think the racing is bad now just wait until the racers stop actually racing each other. I'm sure the attendance for the practice cross rounds will be stellar. Let me know which round actually counts and I'll watch that. I have no interest in people just trying to do good enough without taking any risks.
Totally agree!!!
Park Boys
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2/26/2016 2:22pm
Park Boys wrote:
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least...
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least you get points for every race. Our SX guys have more in common to F1 than NASCAR.. After all F1 drivers are the best in the world, not NASCAR. Just like the riders racing SX are the best SX riders in the world. Although F1 has its issues I would rather our sport copy them.
KennyT wrote:
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different...
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different winners per season, much like SX. That is why they are looking for change.


And BTW many great Open wheel drivers have been complete failures in NASCAR so your assumption that F1 has the best drivers is completely false.
I am just talking about how certain races have double points now. Open Wheel does not mean have to mean F1, sorry. Yes F1 drivers are hands down the best drivers on earth. They are all phenionms that have been great since they were 4-5. Montoya was easily able to come and race NASCAR, Kimi was able to drive the Trucks. No NASCAR driver around would be able to get a ride for the lowest F1 team. Watch any on board around Monocao, nothing in NASCAR can compare to that, Nothing. Left, straight, Left repeat, except for two tracks.
TankSlapper
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2/26/2016 2:29pm
I would be interested in what the riders and teams think about this. Not that the promoters give a rat's patoot.
DPR250R
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2/26/2016 2:42pm
FlaNard wrote:
If this turns out to be real I'll be amazed with the stupidity. I don't watch pre season in any other sport and that won't change...
If this turns out to be real I'll be amazed with the stupidity. I don't watch pre season in any other sport and that won't change here. Ten rounds of "5th is as good as a first so there is no point taking chances yet" sounds just great. If people think the racing is bad now just wait until the racers stop actually racing each other. I'm sure the attendance for the practice cross rounds will be stellar. Let me know which round actually counts and I'll watch that. I have no interest in people just trying to do good enough without taking any risks.
So you stop watching after the championship is decided?
DPR250R
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2/26/2016 2:43pm
I would be interested in what the riders and teams think about this. Not that the promoters give a rat's patoot.
Who pays who?
Mit12
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2/26/2016 2:57pm
Park Boys wrote:
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least...
I would rather have a F1 style points now where they make some races more points than others, I hate that as well but at least you get points for every race. Our SX guys have more in common to F1 than NASCAR.. After all F1 drivers are the best in the world, not NASCAR. Just like the riders racing SX are the best SX riders in the world. Although F1 has its issues I would rather our sport copy them.
KennyT wrote:
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different...
F1 is pretty much unwatchable anymore. You talk about freight training with zero passing. At least NASCAR has made their series competitive. F1 has 2-3 different winners per season, much like SX. That is why they are looking for change.


And BTW many great Open wheel drivers have been complete failures in NASCAR so your assumption that F1 has the best drivers is completely false.
You do realize that F1 is the most watched racing in the world don't you? In F1 the teams have a huge say in rules and changes.
Mit12
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2/26/2016 2:59pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2016 3:00pm
If we had a chase format the year RV tore his ACL Brayton would have been champion. Sounds exciting doesn't it! That is way better than a rider dominating?
defeatist45
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2/26/2016 3:16pm
Hey, we could have like competition cautions and stuff and red flag every main at the halfway point...that would be sweet. Sure the leaders would be down with that
Ted722
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2/26/2016 3:20pm
Hey, we could have like competition cautions and stuff and red flag every main at the halfway point...that would be sweet. Sure the leaders would be...
Hey, we could have like competition cautions and stuff and red flag every main at the halfway point...that would be sweet. Sure the leaders would be down with that


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