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I won't have a good ride report for a couple weeks
I rode last weekend with my 4cs forks, had a good turnout at Johnsonville MX Farm and the track got decently choppy, not race rough but def not a smooth track either. The 4cs setup I have from Stillwell performance is not bad by a long shot, it is not really harsh, but not as plush as other setups I have been on either. It just blows through the stroke at the wrong times. I have been playing with clickers while I waited for my cone valves. Went harder on comp 4 clicks and actually sped up the rebound 4 clicks to make sure it wasn't packing on the successive hit bottoming that I have been getting in the braking bumps. That did not fix it and still get the bottoming on big hits every time. Bottom line, my 4cs setup is flawed but very rideable and I can't wait to feel the new forks!
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First I know Adam Krefting and he is an amazing offroad A rider. But I rode with him moto and He is slow and not that good. For offroad he has the 4cs stuff figured out better than any other tunner.
So this brings me to my questions, the guys who have bought the cone valves, do you guys ride/race moto or offroad? Does Billy know both or just moto?
I have and race a 15 350 xcfw offraod (just sprung it and love it) and got also a 15 250 FE which like some guys say here, Its been good so far but only have 6 hrs on it. Iam tempted to get the cone valve forks for it, But now Iam torn since I use moto for practice and I really race offraod and enduros, so on which bike would it be better and more usefull?
Anyway, The original owner said he had it setup for C level MX. So im not sure if by MX he meant woods or if Ridepg suspension is just that soft. Either way, I sent my suspension to PG to have it valved for a B rider and see how it does.
I researched a LOT to try and find a competent CV tuner.
Most places when I ask specific questions about the CV forks the only thing I get out of them is "we have done a ton of KTM suspension"
The "mid-valve" mod that powerband claims where he removed the Cone valve and puts a traditional mid valve in...just sounds like he couldn't figure out how to properly setup the cone valve... Not trying to bad mouth anyone, his stuff maybe top notch. Those are just my thoughts.
I've had FC suspension before, had to send it back twice and it still wasnt that great until i serviced the forks myself and adjusted the air gap.
I ultimately went with PG simply because they were the original tuners of the fork the first time and we sent in a dealer app to them so I could get mine done a little cheaper. This could prove to be a bad choice as they seem 100% geared towards woods riding, but I guess I will see. I've seen a few people ask if they make good MX suspension. I guess I'll be the first to answer that question.
Lets us know
My suspension guy was at the track and observed what the suspension was doing. Basically, the shock was too stiff and putting too much load on the forks, causing them to dive too deep in the stroke and giving a harsh feeling. At the same time, it un-weighs the rear and kicks around. Because of this, most ppl slow down the rebound. what we did was get the shock to work more and balance out the bike.
This is on a 2016 ktm 450 SXF and i'm a B rider. It worked for me so I thought I may as well share.
Unless they flat out lie, that isn't true. I asked some specific questions about the different cone valves available with the different degrees and he was able to answer every question I had. No other company had a clue what I was talking about.
My buddy who has a '16 450 is sending his stuff there too and they were trying to talk him into putting cone valves into the 4cs.... Apparently they came up with a kit to make it possible. I didn't ask PG about this, my buddy told me. He said it was close to a grand for the whole service...
So far, compared to other companies I've used for revalves... PG is not super cheap. But from what I can tell on my invoice, they don't replace unnecessary items either.
I get a dealer discount, but the non-discounted amount was $724, this price does not include shipping to and from. They didn't replace a thing on the rear shock...which I would of thought a seal head was standard..but w/e I'm not the expert. Forks only got seals, piston rings, and springs..no bushings. And for those who wonder, PG is a place that charges for each shim they use...Some companies do this, some don't. This was a first for me though.
I'll post a ride review when I get the chance.
beton 6 . The mid valve on a cv fork is tuned by a spring , cone taper & preload on said spring.They can be difficult to tune & these parts are more expensive than shims.imo.
I have had 3 sets of cv forks. I installed a showa style mid in one of the sets that ended up being my fav setup.easier
& cheaper to tune.
What makes them different than the wp closed cartridge. no bladder & with a std mid they feel more kyb/showa like.
the cv has an near 75mm btm cone .trick coatings & are stiffer in feel/flex that stock wp forks.
For what is is worth I get along with the 4cs forks.I use a combo of kreft, race tech & my valving.
The pic is my 16-350 with factory services CV forks that I borrowed from by brother in law.I have my 4cs working well enough that after 2 weeks of testing back to back I did not buy them & he sold them on ebay. he came out ahead as I was at 2k. I believe he got $2300.00
The next pic is the mystical CV mid valve.The last pic is some 52mm CV I used to have with a std mid valve.
Couple more questions, how much do you have invested in your 4cs/kreft/racetech setup??? How much would it cost one of us to replicate it???
And those cv's are CarlinoJoe's now
I ride + 50 A class MOTO ONLY I have been racing since 1978. I ride at least 2 times a week .my racing has slowed down as I no longer care to be at the track from sun up to sun down. My brother in law has a private track, sprinkled, a tractor w/ tiller & a skid steer so I consider myself a pro practice rider . I will race 6-10 times a year now. But with unlimited access to a private track, I ride more than if i raced every weekend.
To verify if did or did not want the cv forks I raced the on the roughest sand track we have .Went 1-1 on cv forks. Then on the same track the day after [labor day weekend] I stayed for rough track practice. I tested the CV vs 4cs. I revalved the 4cs twice at the track & was able to make my choice. Believe it or not the cv forks were not 2k better. My race results would of been the same. However if I were to revalve the cv's . I could of made some gains but A certain satisfaction comes from building my forks myself.
If I were was unable to test & complete the work my self I would of sent them to kreft.. At 2k the brother in laws cv were a great value but my opinion is it made me feel as if i was buying results/speed & look at me . I however agree with the point of view the cv forks can be resold & you can not sell or recoup your revalve expenditure . But if i stay on ktm they have air forks coming & I may get a set this year to get ahead of the curve.I don't think anyone would notice unless I brought it up. I have liked my PSF's & TAC forks that I have had once set up. Air don't scare me. The weight off the front is key, that is what was special about those aluminum 52mm cv forks I had along with exceptional bottoming resistance. The 4cs are not hopeless pos's, They do however need some parts & cash tossed their way. A few shims is not likely gonna work. Opinions may very.. .
P.s. I'm not sure if they are the same set, but possibly...
Pit Row
Are there different generations of the trax shock? I'm looking at buying the one in the photo I posted. But I'm not sure on the year it was bought. I notice a lot of them have different shades of orange on the knobs. Any hints when looking at one to buy?
If you are not fond of the air forks, then here's the 4CS fix and you will never have to look back. Drop in KYB sss cartridges into the WP tubes and call it done. I gave up on the 4CS fix, everyone says they have the cure, I haven't seen it. You keep throwing money at them and never get a confident suspension. I did the cartridge conversion about 4 months ago, and until you ride KYB carts on the KTM you have no idea how good of a bike the KTM's are. Pure magic! No 4CS setup that I've ridden can even come close.
What I'm reading about the AER, I wouldn't want them. Testing is proving it has flaws, so it sounds like you would have to throw money at that fork as well. You would also have to like air forks, and as for myself I don't like them. Don't like the feel, (progressive rate, inconsistency, maintenance, etc..), so air forks are out of the equation for me, and several riders I know. If you want a consistent set up, air is not the right direction. The huge plus to doing the KYB cartridge conversion is you KNOW where you will end up, so that's money well spent.
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