WP 4cs forks

Thelen20
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Thelen20 11/22/2015 1:27pm
11/22/2015 1:27pm
Digger29 wrote:
I sold my cone valves last week and I rode my bike today at the same track as last Sunday with my 4CS that Billy at...
I sold my cone valves last week and I rode my bike today at the same track as last Sunday with my 4CS that Billy at Powerband did for me last wk and I was pretty impressed with them. They were not as plush in the initial part of the stroke but the forks are brand new and they didn't do anything bad unlike my 15 250SX's 4CS forks which sucked something awful and were borderline un-raceable in stock form. My 15's deflected off of everything and bottomed something awful. Are they as good as my cone valves, F no but I could totally race with these forks. I changed the settings a little bit from where he had them. I'm at 16 on the compression and 18 on the rebound and they were pretty damn good. I let another guy with a stock 15.5 FE450 ride it and he loved both ends and said it was way way better than his stuff. I could tell he really liked it because he was hauling the mail on it.
Now that I have a little more time on my new forks that is pretty much my experience going from 15' 250sx 4cs to Powerband racing cone valves. Maybe not the deflecting as my 4cs had been revalved twice and were actually pretty plush and tracked ok in small chop, but the bottoming for sure. . .

The cone valves bottom out . . . I guess, I mean I have slammed, cased, and over jumped things several times now so they have to have bottomed at some point but I can't feel it! Ok, maybe I can feel it but it doesn't hurt at all. The bottoming resistance is like nothing I have experienced in my 15 years of riding. I am working to dial in the balance of the bike, mostly working with the shock, and it gets better every time I make a move. The only complaint I have right now is some headshake, sag is at 105mm, a lot of it is probably me because I always seem to struggle with headshake. On my cone valves so far I have I softened up the compression 2 clicks because it wasn't bottoming hard enough Smile , and softened up the rebound 2 clicks to try to keep the front tire on the ground, maybe help with the headshake.

I am the type of guy who knows what I want, gets what I want, then enjoys what I have. So my 4cs forks are for sale, They are revalved by Stillwell performance for a 175lbs vet intermediate. I will be running these cone valve forks for a looooong time.
darren7878 11/22/2015 1:33pm
11/22/2015 1:33pm
Digger29 wrote:
I sold my cone valves last week and I rode my bike today at the same track as last Sunday with my 4CS that Billy at...
I sold my cone valves last week and I rode my bike today at the same track as last Sunday with my 4CS that Billy at Powerband did for me last wk and I was pretty impressed with them. They were not as plush in the initial part of the stroke but the forks are brand new and they didn't do anything bad unlike my 15 250SX's 4CS forks which sucked something awful and were borderline un-raceable in stock form. My 15's deflected off of everything and bottomed something awful. Are they as good as my cone valves, F no but I could totally race with these forks. I changed the settings a little bit from where he had them. I'm at 16 on the compression and 18 on the rebound and they were pretty damn good. I let another guy with a stock 15.5 FE450 ride it and he loved both ends and said it was way way better than his stuff. I could tell he really liked it because he was hauling the mail on it.
"My 15's deflected off of everything and bottomed something awful"

Sounds exactly how I would describe my front forks.

Ive purchased used Ohlins now overwise the bike would of stayed parked. I have 30 year old suspension that works better than the 4CS setup.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 11/22/2015 1:44pm
11/22/2015 1:44pm
Digger29 wrote:
I sold my cone valves last week and I rode my bike today at the same track as last Sunday with my 4CS that Billy at...
I sold my cone valves last week and I rode my bike today at the same track as last Sunday with my 4CS that Billy at Powerband did for me last wk and I was pretty impressed with them. They were not as plush in the initial part of the stroke but the forks are brand new and they didn't do anything bad unlike my 15 250SX's 4CS forks which sucked something awful and were borderline un-raceable in stock form. My 15's deflected off of everything and bottomed something awful. Are they as good as my cone valves, F no but I could totally race with these forks. I changed the settings a little bit from where he had them. I'm at 16 on the compression and 18 on the rebound and they were pretty damn good. I let another guy with a stock 15.5 FE450 ride it and he loved both ends and said it was way way better than his stuff. I could tell he really liked it because he was hauling the mail on it.
Thelen20 wrote:
Now that I have a little more time on my new forks that is pretty much my experience going from 15' 250sx 4cs to Powerband racing...
Now that I have a little more time on my new forks that is pretty much my experience going from 15' 250sx 4cs to Powerband racing cone valves. Maybe not the deflecting as my 4cs had been revalved twice and were actually pretty plush and tracked ok in small chop, but the bottoming for sure. . .

The cone valves bottom out . . . I guess, I mean I have slammed, cased, and over jumped things several times now so they have to have bottomed at some point but I can't feel it! Ok, maybe I can feel it but it doesn't hurt at all. The bottoming resistance is like nothing I have experienced in my 15 years of riding. I am working to dial in the balance of the bike, mostly working with the shock, and it gets better every time I make a move. The only complaint I have right now is some headshake, sag is at 105mm, a lot of it is probably me because I always seem to struggle with headshake. On my cone valves so far I have I softened up the compression 2 clicks because it wasn't bottoming hard enough Smile , and softened up the rebound 2 clicks to try to keep the front tire on the ground, maybe help with the headshake.

I am the type of guy who knows what I want, gets what I want, then enjoys what I have. So my 4cs forks are for sale, They are revalved by Stillwell performance for a 175lbs vet intermediate. I will be running these cone valve forks for a looooong time.
I think speeding up the fork rebound will help with your headshake. For shits and gigs maybe try 107-108 sag. Once you find the right spot you will get rid of that headshake. I had it on my bike for a minute and it was due to too stiff initially on the forks compression.
sandman768
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sandman768 11/22/2015 2:54pm
11/22/2015 2:54pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2015 2:56pm
I have about 8 hrs on my F/C revalved forks.2015 xc 300 I kęep backing the compression out on my rough sand track...normally I end Up cranking compression in on a rough sand track after my speed increases. Appears that I am using all travel based off oring on fork Tube. I agree, deflection is the only word I can use to describe what I"m feeling, I"ll kęep working with F/C. I plan on buying a 16.5 450 fe, if it comes with 4cs forks, I will buy the cone forks before I even ride it. I just spęnt 3 years on a 13 crf 450 w/air forks....Harsh is not good for my 48 yr old wrist..

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ob
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ob 11/22/2015 6:55pm
11/22/2015 6:55pm Edited Date/Time 11/22/2015 7:25pm
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class rider. Pretty plush on the initial part of travel after the revalve but were to easy for me to bottom when riding hard.
Now I have a 16 350sxf and the forks are way way way better out of the box with just clicker adjustments, it is pretty hard for me to bottom them out, but they still absorb the small stuff. I would love some CVs but these new 4cs fork are not bad. IMOP
JChambers48 11/22/2015 7:14pm
11/22/2015 7:14pm
ob wrote:
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class...
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class rider. Pretty plush on the initial part of travel after the revalve but were to easy for me to bottom when riding hard.
Now I have a 16 350sxf and the forks are way way way better out of the box with just clicker adjustments, it is pretty hard for me to bottom them out, but they still absorb the small stuff. I would love some CVs but these new 4cs fork are not bad. IMOP
I totally agree with you regarding the new 2016 4CS, they aren't a bad fork.

Once you find a setting that works for you they are a decent fork. I do find myself making small clicker adjustments from track to track but nothing drastic.

The 4CS fork should not deter peoples decision looking at the 2016 bikes.

I think a mistake SOME people make is winding in (slowing down) the rebound like you would with other forks. The 2016 valving on the 4CS doesn't seem to like that. 15-18 on the rebound with comp around 8-12 works for me.

In saying this, I'm patiently waiting for my CV forks Smile
ob
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ob 11/22/2015 7:23pm
11/22/2015 7:23pm
ob wrote:
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class...
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class rider. Pretty plush on the initial part of travel after the revalve but were to easy for me to bottom when riding hard.
Now I have a 16 350sxf and the forks are way way way better out of the box with just clicker adjustments, it is pretty hard for me to bottom them out, but they still absorb the small stuff. I would love some CVs but these new 4cs fork are not bad. IMOP
JChambers48 wrote:
I totally agree with you regarding the new 2016 4CS, they aren't a bad fork. Once you find a setting that works for you they are...
I totally agree with you regarding the new 2016 4CS, they aren't a bad fork.

Once you find a setting that works for you they are a decent fork. I do find myself making small clicker adjustments from track to track but nothing drastic.

The 4CS fork should not deter peoples decision looking at the 2016 bikes.

I think a mistake SOME people make is winding in (slowing down) the rebound like you would with other forks. The 2016 valving on the 4CS doesn't seem to like that. 15-18 on the rebound with comp around 8-12 works for me.

In saying this, I'm patiently waiting for my CV forks Smile
Funny you say that about the rebound. I would normally run really stiff rebound settings but on these forks it just would not work much stiffer than the factory setting.
Mouse153
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Mouse153 11/23/2015 4:45am
11/23/2015 4:45am
Enzo has them figured out. My 4CS and shock are there right now and I can't wait to see how they work. We didn't re-valve my son's 4CSs from his 150SX and they work fine. A little harsh in the mid-stroke but nothing major.
John_Anthony 11/23/2015 6:37am
11/23/2015 6:37am
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
What would a set like that cost? They look awesome!
imoto31 wrote:
thanks, price is hard to say. if you have a set of cc, the conversion labor is about $425.00 including a re-valve to your specs (weight...

thanks, price is hard to say. if you have a set of cc, the conversion labor is about $425.00 including a re-valve to your specs (weight, speed, and use) plus all parts needed. in my case I bought a set of '12 Yamaha 250f forks off ebay ('12-'16 250f or 450f are the easiest to convert) for around $550.00 to use for the internals. the only added expense would be springs, seals and bushings if needed and of course the coatings which I already had done but can be had for around $600.00. the only downside of using the cc forks on the newer models is that I had to buy a set of 20.5 degree ride engineering clamps to bring geometry back to specs but they look trick. the conversion can be made to 4cs forks but I think its more expensive labor wise.
Awesome set of forks and will runs circles around ANY 4cs revalve....and have a better feel for most riders than cones. Looking forward to hear about testing! I have the first set of KYB conversions Jonathan at TBT did, have never looked back. Very good info above regarding the conversion, just want to add to it. Right now he can convert the 4CS forks and not have to use the CC lugs, axle, spacers, fork guards (see image of modified 4CS bottoming cone kit). I have the CC conversion, and the word from some back to back testing with the 4CS conversion vs the CC conversion, is the CC conversion just has a better feel. Jonathan is working with an A rider who can easily go with the bottoming cone kit and save some bucks, but is choosing to do the CC conversion instead. My opinion losing the 2mm of offset is a good thing, but at this point it's just splitting hairs, as ANY direction you go with the KYB carts is a HUGE improvement.

Also would like to add, with the 4CS modified bottoming cone you can turn your 4CS back into the CC bladder fork, lots of used cartridges available to do this as well.. Just another cost effective option, and from personal experience the bladder fork is definitely an improvement over the 4CS...



John_Anthony 11/23/2015 7:04am
11/23/2015 7:04am
ob wrote:
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class...
I had a 14.5 factory edition 450, first year of the 4cs on a U.S. KTM moto bike, revalved by Enzo for a vet A class rider. Pretty plush on the initial part of travel after the revalve but were to easy for me to bottom when riding hard.
Now I have a 16 350sxf and the forks are way way way better out of the box with just clicker adjustments, it is pretty hard for me to bottom them out, but they still absorb the small stuff. I would love some CVs but these new 4cs fork are not bad. IMOP
JChambers48 wrote:
I totally agree with you regarding the new 2016 4CS, they aren't a bad fork. Once you find a setting that works for you they are...
I totally agree with you regarding the new 2016 4CS, they aren't a bad fork.

Once you find a setting that works for you they are a decent fork. I do find myself making small clicker adjustments from track to track but nothing drastic.

The 4CS fork should not deter peoples decision looking at the 2016 bikes.

I think a mistake SOME people make is winding in (slowing down) the rebound like you would with other forks. The 2016 valving on the 4CS doesn't seem to like that. 15-18 on the rebound with comp around 8-12 works for me.

In saying this, I'm patiently waiting for my CV forks Smile
After testing the 16's myself, have to agree, and have said that that even the 15's in stock (or just barely tweaked) form are better then all the modes the tuners are doing. Once these tuners address even the slightest midstroke spike the fork and chassis come apart, then the chase for balance begins. I road a couple 16's out of the box, then broke in, and unless you are going KYB or Cone, definitely don't mess with a revalve. I hear so many top turners say they have the fix, and every set I've ridden still have the 4CS qualities that you don't want. And dangerous at times. Getting the plushness without blowing thru the stroke in my eyes has not happened, and then there's the deflection challenge. I ride every version willing to let me throw a leg over their bike at the track, yea I'm bad, but this 4CS challenge had me whacked at first, as the KTM is an awesome bike underneath those shitty 4CS forks... I'm running KYB cartridges and love them, and unless you have the cash and the right person to tune the CV it's another learning curve. KYB sss conversion is a lot le$$, and any local tuner can dial them in.
imoto31
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imoto31 11/23/2015 7:37am
11/23/2015 7:37am
John_Anthony wrote:
Awesome set of forks and will runs circles around ANY 4cs revalve....and have a better feel for most riders than cones. Looking forward to hear about...
Awesome set of forks and will runs circles around ANY 4cs revalve....and have a better feel for most riders than cones. Looking forward to hear about testing! I have the first set of KYB conversions Jonathan at TBT did, have never looked back. Very good info above regarding the conversion, just want to add to it. Right now he can convert the 4CS forks and not have to use the CC lugs, axle, spacers, fork guards (see image of modified 4CS bottoming cone kit). I have the CC conversion, and the word from some back to back testing with the 4CS conversion vs the CC conversion, is the CC conversion just has a better feel. Jonathan is working with an A rider who can easily go with the bottoming cone kit and save some bucks, but is choosing to do the CC conversion instead. My opinion losing the 2mm of offset is a good thing, but at this point it's just splitting hairs, as ANY direction you go with the KYB carts is a HUGE improvement.

Also would like to add, with the 4CS modified bottoming cone you can turn your 4CS back into the CC bladder fork, lots of used cartridges available to do this as well.. Just another cost effective option, and from personal experience the bladder fork is definitely an improvement over the 4CS...



tested with kyb conversion and all I can say is WOW!!!! the action is plush and smooth through the entire stroke and after a couple clicks of compressor damping bottomed out slightly on only the biggest hits. no deflection or harshness mid stroke that pledges the 4cs. I've never ridden a c.v. equipped bike but I had tested many showa re-valves, wp 4cs/cc forks and A kits... this fork is the shit!!! worth the dough!!!



gpracer36
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gpracer36 11/23/2015 9:20am
11/23/2015 9:20am
so can you send your 2016 4cs forks to TBT and have him do the SSS conversion complete? Ready to bolt back on with your stock clamps and everything?
imoto31
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imoto31 11/23/2015 10:49am
11/23/2015 10:49am
gpracer36 wrote:
so can you send your 2016 4cs forks to TBT and have him do the SSS conversion complete? Ready to bolt back on with your stock...
so can you send your 2016 4cs forks to TBT and have him do the SSS conversion complete? Ready to bolt back on with your stock clamps and everything?
yes you can according to jonathan... go for it, you will be very happy!!!!
grunkster
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grunkster 11/23/2015 11:22am
11/23/2015 11:22am
And digger why are you guys dumping your cones from Billy? I see mxboy had his for sale too.
imoto31
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imoto31 11/23/2015 1:15pm
11/23/2015 1:15pm
grunkster wrote:
Cost??
not sure, but you can call jonathan at tbt Arizona @ 602-617-1032 and he can fill you in on everything.
Digger29
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Digger29 11/23/2015 1:52pm
11/23/2015 1:52pm
grunkster wrote:
And digger why are you guys dumping your cones from Billy? I see mxboy had his for sale too.
Getting a new 16.5 FE450 with the AER forks and oh ya I just had to have to new cone valves :-)
OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 11/23/2015 5:54pm
11/23/2015 5:54pm
I spoke with johnathon from tbt tonite. Very nice and informative. I think this is the route I am going to go .

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OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 11/23/2015 7:05pm
11/23/2015 7:05pm
Imoto. Is that MMX ? Sure looks like it to me
imoto31
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imoto31 11/23/2015 7:27pm
11/23/2015 7:27pm
OR Racer46 wrote:
Imoto. Is that MMX ? Sure looks like it to me
or racer, good eye, I was at mmx last weekend testing on the main track, not to rough but the track was fun and weather perfect!!!
OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 11/23/2015 8:03pm
11/23/2015 8:03pm
I am pretty sure I meet you there before You had a 350 before ? I had just got mine . I think you had just put the rg3 stuff on
imoto31
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imoto31 11/23/2015 8:31pm
11/23/2015 8:31pm
OR Racer46 wrote:
I am pretty sure I meet you there before You had a 350 before ? I had just got mine . I think you had just...
I am pretty sure I meet you there before You had a 350 before ? I had just got mine . I think you had just put the rg3 stuff on
I totally remember you, how's it going?? Yes, I just put the cc forks on my '15 350 after ditching the 4cs. I thought those forks worked well but the wp/kyb conversion is the best fork ever on the ktm. You won't be disappointed with the "frankenfork" conversion and Jonathan will totally take care of you. Good luck and come on down again to moto.
OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 11/23/2015 8:47pm
11/23/2015 8:47pm
I will be coming down now that winter is setting in. Small world. .
coastie44
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coastie44 12/27/2015 8:52pm
12/27/2015 8:52pm
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona.

It's the real deal. These forks work well! Highly recommended!

gpracer36
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gpracer36 12/28/2015 8:45am
12/28/2015 8:45am
coastie44 wrote:
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona. It's the real deal. These forks work well...
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona.

It's the real deal. These forks work well! Highly recommended!

did you provide the kyb forks and if so what year/model? thanks
coastie44
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coastie44 12/28/2015 8:59am
12/28/2015 8:59am
coastie44 wrote:
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona. It's the real deal. These forks work well...
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona.

It's the real deal. These forks work well! Highly recommended!

gpracer36 wrote:
did you provide the kyb forks and if so what year/model? thanks
Yes I provided a set of kyb forks I purchased on ebay. They were from a 2009 yz450. I texted Jonathan before I bought them to make sure they would work. You can do the same. Most any year/model he can make work.
John_Anthony 12/28/2015 9:30am
12/28/2015 9:30am
coastie44 wrote:
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona. It's the real deal. These forks work well...
I just had my first ride today on my 4cs kyb sss conversion forks from TBT in arizona.

It's the real deal. These forks work well! Highly recommended!

gpracer36 wrote:
did you provide the kyb forks and if so what year/model? thanks
Just a note... Certain years take less labor to modify, I'm gonna say from 2012 to 15 Yamaha, but best you contact Jonathan. Also would like to note quality, a clapped out set of forks you end up having to put more parts in it, hence spending a little more up front for a good set of forks. You wont be sorry no matter how much you spend!! This is all about having fun, and this totally raises the fun factor. When everyone is complaining about some really rough sections of the track, you will be like " where, I didn't notice anything"..
luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 12/28/2015 1:12pm
12/28/2015 1:12pm
Minus the cost of the used forks, what does the conversion cost? This seems like a very cost effective way to go.
John_Anthony 12/28/2015 1:37pm
12/28/2015 1:37pm
luckyguy19 wrote:
Minus the cost of the used forks, what does the conversion cost? This seems like a very cost effective way to go.
It's best to call Jonathan up at TBT, but I would say $350 to $450, but it all depends on the year forks and their condition. And yes, it's a very cost effective way to get TOP quality suspension, and to me it's a no brainer if you own a bike with 4CS forks.
luckyguy19
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luckyguy19 12/28/2015 1:45pm
12/28/2015 1:45pm
luckyguy19 wrote:
Minus the cost of the used forks, what does the conversion cost? This seems like a very cost effective way to go.
John_Anthony wrote:
It's best to call Jonathan up at TBT, but I would say $350 to $450, but it all depends on the year forks and their condition...
It's best to call Jonathan up at TBT, but I would say $350 to $450, but it all depends on the year forks and their condition. And yes, it's a very cost effective way to get TOP quality suspension, and to me it's a no brainer if you own a bike with 4CS forks.
I don't actually have a KTM, just wondering. I already have SSS on my 14 YZ450F.

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