WP 4cs forks

CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 8/27/2015 8:41am
8/27/2015 8:41am
I really want to try Kreft because all the reviews. But $1200 is pretty heavy... I wonder how good it really is?
KTMShane699
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KTMShane699 8/27/2015 8:52am
8/27/2015 8:52am
People are all about $1200 in modifications to a pair of forks (that offer little to no residual value), but criticize under $3,000 for a complete set of forks...the coatings alone add significantly to the expense of the fork. From FC, it seems DLC coating is about $750 plus the service on the fork itself. So really, closer to $900 or so when all is said and done.

To each their own, but in the end I know what seems to be the better deal in the end. That being said, if you want to stick with the 4CS...Kreft seems to be the most consistent in terms of getting positive reviews.

Shane
MyersAvionics 8/27/2015 9:19am
8/27/2015 9:19am
I ride a 2014 Husaberg TE250 with the 4CS. The only way i can describe it is breaking it into different parts.

- Slow technical stuff - Perfect. Wouldn't change a thing.
- Moderately quick stuff - This is by far the weak portion for me on the forks. When you hit something at moderate speed dodging between trees, the forks seem to deflect pretty bad once in a while. This "one in a while" can put you pretty quickly into a tree.
- Fast stuff - The forks seem to even out again when I'm going >35/40mph. They take hard hits well and i don't get much headshake.

I got the opportunity to ride a friend's bike with Kreft's full package. I took it through some slow technical stuff, faster single track, and fast chop.

- Slow Stuff w/Kreft - No real difference in performance. Felt a bit soft on the initial stroke.
- Quick Single Track - This is where i felt it shined. You could depend on the fork to react the way it should when hitting logs, rocks and roots at speed. No deflection or jarring hits.
- Fast stuff - Smoothed out the rougher fast stuff at speed. Not a major difference between my stock 4cs and the Kreft.

Overall, after he told me the price, and hearing what a much simpler/cheaper revalve would do, I'll stick with the revalving for now. If you have $1,500 burning a hole in your pocket Kreft does good work.
ob
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ob 8/27/2015 9:49am
8/27/2015 9:49am
I have a basic Enzo revalved on my 4cs, and they work very well except for the occasional blowing thru the stroke when I screw up something. Overall I think they are pretty good. I have spent some time on a new Yamaha and don't really get all the ya ya ya. They just don't seem any better than th WP stuff after you have it set up correctly.

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EcoSX478
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EcoSX478 8/27/2015 10:06am
8/27/2015 10:06am
KTMShane699 wrote:
People are all about $1200 in modifications to a pair of forks (that offer little to no residual value), but criticize under $3,000 for a complete...
People are all about $1200 in modifications to a pair of forks (that offer little to no residual value), but criticize under $3,000 for a complete set of forks...the coatings alone add significantly to the expense of the fork. From FC, it seems DLC coating is about $750 plus the service on the fork itself. So really, closer to $900 or so when all is said and done.

To each their own, but in the end I know what seems to be the better deal in the end. That being said, if you want to stick with the 4CS...Kreft seems to be the most consistent in terms of getting positive reviews.

Shane
I agree with you Shane. Being somebody who has to be very careful where I spend my money, I'll bite the bullet and buy a set of CV forks knowing that they will hold value.

I want to throw one more thing out there and correct me if I'm comparing apples to oranges. Buying a set of A-Kit SFF TAC forks from Pro Circuit is around what $8000 ?? From what I've heard from test riders the WP Cone Valves are on the same level as an A-Kit (Not talking about a "Works Fork). WP's A-Kit forks at $3500 doesn't sound all that bad.

That said I still wish KTM would have gone with the AER forks for US models stock.
MXD
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MXD 8/27/2015 11:01am
8/27/2015 11:01am
Thelen20 wrote:
Ok, I been doing a little research . . . Why isn't anybody talking about the ohlins 22mm cartridges inserted in the stock 4cs uppers and...
Ok, I been doing a little research . . .

Why isn't anybody talking about the ohlins 22mm cartridges inserted in the stock 4cs uppers and lowers as a solution??? Only 1200 bucks or so


are the 3500 dollar complete ohlins forks or wp 48mm cone valve forks that much better???
$1200 is certainly a good value but the problem is that when you go to sell it, it won't add much to the value of your bike. 3-4-maybe $500? I don't know exactly but it won't be significant. If you spend the $2950 on cone valve forks, you can pull them off when you're done, put the stockers back on and sell the cone valves for about 22-2500 (from what I've seen). Yes you are laying out more capital but you will recover more as well. Plus, there is always the option of spending a couple hundred bucks, changing the lugs and putting them on whatever you buy next. It's more money up front but you recoup way more of your investment on the back end.
KTMShane699
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KTMShane699 8/27/2015 11:04am
8/27/2015 11:04am
MXD wrote:
$1200 is certainly a good value but the problem is that when you go to sell it, it won't add much to the value of your...
$1200 is certainly a good value but the problem is that when you go to sell it, it won't add much to the value of your bike. 3-4-maybe $500? I don't know exactly but it won't be significant. If you spend the $2950 on cone valve forks, you can pull them off when you're done, put the stockers back on and sell the cone valves for about 22-2500 (from what I've seen). Yes you are laying out more capital but you will recover more as well. Plus, there is always the option of spending a couple hundred bucks, changing the lugs and putting them on whatever you buy next. It's more money up front but you recoup way more of your investment on the back end.
$300-500 for having revolved suspension at resale is probably generous considering most people have to pay for at least a rebuild to get updated specs for themselves. And that's assuming it's a company like Factory Connection that offers that level of service since it's already been done.

Shane
MXD
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MXD 8/27/2015 6:04pm
8/27/2015 6:04pm Edited Date/Time 8/27/2015 6:06pm
MXD wrote:
$1200 is certainly a good value but the problem is that when you go to sell it, it won't add much to the value of your...
$1200 is certainly a good value but the problem is that when you go to sell it, it won't add much to the value of your bike. 3-4-maybe $500? I don't know exactly but it won't be significant. If you spend the $2950 on cone valve forks, you can pull them off when you're done, put the stockers back on and sell the cone valves for about 22-2500 (from what I've seen). Yes you are laying out more capital but you will recover more as well. Plus, there is always the option of spending a couple hundred bucks, changing the lugs and putting them on whatever you buy next. It's more money up front but you recoup way more of your investment on the back end.
KTMShane699 wrote:
$300-500 for having revolved suspension at resale is probably generous considering most people have to pay for at least a rebuild to get updated specs for...
$300-500 for having revolved suspension at resale is probably generous considering most people have to pay for at least a rebuild to get updated specs for themselves. And that's assuming it's a company like Factory Connection that offers that level of service since it's already been done.

Shane
I wasn't referencing a standard revalve. I was talking about recouping some of the $1200 for the ohlins insert kit. I understand that a standard revalve nets you $0.00 at resale.
yak651
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yak651 8/27/2015 6:30pm
8/27/2015 6:30pm
Pair of Ohlins fork and shock on KTM Talk classifieds for $2800, look in good shape. I'm not fast enough to justify the cost, would like to try them some day....
KTMShane699
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KTMShane699 8/27/2015 6:33pm
8/27/2015 6:33pm
MXD wrote:
I wasn't referencing a standard revalve. I was talking about recouping some of the $1200 for the ohlins insert kit. I understand that a standard revalve...
I wasn't referencing a standard revalve. I was talking about recouping some of the $1200 for the ohlins insert kit. I understand that a standard revalve nets you $0.00 at resale.
I misunderstood. I thought you were referencing the cost of the Kreft 4CS set up, which can get up towards that $1200 mark pretty quick from what I understand. My apologies!

Shane
tempura
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tempura 8/27/2015 6:37pm
8/27/2015 6:37pm
CarlinoJoeVideo wrote:
Are there any OEM forks that are really good out of the box? Say if you were the target weight, any that don't even need a...
Are there any OEM forks that are really good out of the box? Say if you were the target weight, any that don't even need a revalve?
rocketsocks26 wrote:
kyb sss, are alsome bone stock.
Titan1 wrote:
Are those the forks that come on the new Yamaha's? (including the YZ250?)
Yep, KYB SSS comes stock on the 16 Yamaha's. Four stroke 250/450 and two stroke 125/250.
Highly probable the best stock suspension out there. Better than a lot of re-valved stuff as well.
MXD
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MXD 8/27/2015 6:39pm
8/27/2015 6:39pm
MXD wrote:
I wasn't referencing a standard revalve. I was talking about recouping some of the $1200 for the ohlins insert kit. I understand that a standard revalve...
I wasn't referencing a standard revalve. I was talking about recouping some of the $1200 for the ohlins insert kit. I understand that a standard revalve nets you $0.00 at resale.
KTMShane699 wrote:
I misunderstood. I thought you were referencing the cost of the Kreft 4CS set up, which can get up towards that $1200 mark pretty quick from...
I misunderstood. I thought you were referencing the cost of the Kreft 4CS set up, which can get up towards that $1200 mark pretty quick from what I understand. My apologies!

Shane
No apologies necessary. The way I worded it wasn't very clear.
swatdoc
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swatdoc 8/28/2015 12:45am
8/28/2015 12:45am
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!!
My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week.

Crush
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Crush 8/28/2015 4:40am
8/28/2015 4:40am
swatdoc wrote:
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!! My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/08/28/103163/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!!
My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week.

They're pretty fucking sexy!

They're 48mm yeah?
KTMShane699
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KTMShane699 8/28/2015 4:51am
8/28/2015 4:51am
Congrats swatdoc! Enjoy them!

And crush, those are 48's. You can get 52's, but I don't know of anyone who has. They're just too stiff and nobody stocks parts for them.

Shane
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Crush 8/28/2015 5:10am
8/28/2015 5:10am
Cheers Shane. Joshy is after a set for his 16, just picked it up tonight. Horn!

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Thelen20
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Thelen20 8/28/2015 6:50am
8/28/2015 6:50am Edited Date/Time 8/28/2015 7:09am
yak651 wrote:
Pair of Ohlins fork and shock on KTM Talk classifieds for $2800, look in good shape. I'm not fast enough to justify the cost, would like...
Pair of Ohlins fork and shock on KTM Talk classifieds for $2800, look in good shape. I'm not fast enough to justify the cost, would like to try them some day....
Hmmm, they have huck valves in em too. Would need to refresh and revalve I imagine.

Anybody know right off hand if going from 200lbs rider to 185lbs rider would require a spring change? I will look it up, those might be an option. Would have to sort out the 2mm offset issue too

I want a shock too but I wont get one if I go with the cone valves
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 8/28/2015 7:25am
8/28/2015 7:25am
swatdoc wrote:
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!! My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/08/28/103163/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!!
My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week.

Dammmm those looks good!
rocketsocks26 8/28/2015 9:51am
8/28/2015 9:51am
swatdoc wrote:
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!! My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2015/08/28/103163/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
UPS dropped these babies off a couple hours ago!!
My bike is on the way and should be here in about a week.

Swatdoc, tell us what u think, the only adjustments I made where , I backed out the compression 4 from what billy had and softend the rebound 2. And their amazing!
Moto3731
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Moto3731 8/29/2015 6:19pm
8/29/2015 6:19pm


Got my set from Billy also and had to do the same thing as mentioned I went I think five out on compression and three out on rebound. I think speeding up the rebound made the biggest difference for them there awesome now. They were just a little slow moving at first now there spot on and I'm using the full travel with no bottoming.
mxjeff575
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mxjeff575 8/29/2015 6:51pm
8/29/2015 6:51pm
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on my 2016 250 SXF. I've only had it on 2 tracks, but neither have had bad braking bumps, so honestly, the forks haven't shown anything bad....fairly controlled (no real bumps, big flowing jumps).
rocketsocks26 8/29/2015 7:04pm
8/29/2015 7:04pm
mxjeff575 wrote:
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on...
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on my 2016 250 SXF. I've only had it on 2 tracks, but neither have had bad braking bumps, so honestly, the forks haven't shown anything bad....fairly controlled (no real bumps, big flowing jumps).
Mxjeff575, I never used my 4cs, I had gave up on my wp stuff back in 2012 and have been running ohlins since, but comparing the wp cv to my ohlins , id say their the same in plushness but the cv are smoother in the middle with by FAR the best bottoming resistance ive ever expierenced! My ohlins where highly tuned by mx tech with his valving and huckvalves
Jaybird67k
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Jaybird67k 8/29/2015 7:49pm
8/29/2015 7:49pm Edited Date/Time 8/29/2015 7:53pm
njracer46 wrote:
Here's my report on the 4cs after the first ride on them. Bought a new 15 250 sx wed, raced tomahawk in wv sat. Rode the...
Here's my report on the 4cs after the first ride on them. Bought a new 15 250 sx wed, raced tomahawk in wv sat. Rode the bike around the yard a little to break it in and loaded up to go race. Coming off a 13 250 sx with revalved forks.

They added a bunch of saw dust to the track and ripped it deep, it was very soft in practice and by first moto the whole track was littered with 2-3 ft tall braking bumps. Going down fast hills and going through corners. The track was brutal, never got a second to rest from bumps.

Set the clickers to what my tuner suggested, swapped my old shock over so that was already set up. Even in the brutal conditions I felt the forks worked pretty good. I was charging down the hills, they didn't feel to harsh even through the roughest parts of the track. If anything the shock felt worse as the back end was kicking around quite a bit going through the high speed sweeping hills. I never really over jumped anything so can't comment on how they are really flat landed hard. But I felt they worked pretty good through the rough stuff.

I called my suspension tuner today to let him know how I liked it because he was curious on my opinion. I won't say who but it's one of the big name suspension tuners ( not some local guy ) he also said he tested a customers bike this Sunday. A new factory edition 250f, with a set cone valves set up by power band. He said the track he rode got pretty rough to. He rode 4 practices on the stock 4cs and a few with the cone valves. He actually said he thought the stock 4cs felt better to him. And he does suspension for a living, not saying the stock stuff is better and the cones can probably be set up better but was a little shocked he said the stock stuff felt better.

Maybe you guys who are saying the stock stuff is un rideable are just to picky, I thought they worked pretty good for not even being broken in yet. Like I said the track was brutal, not one smooth section. I didn't test them on a smooth highway track.
It's kind of hard in suspension tuning to compare the feel of a bike when there is that much difference in weight. With a 150 you won't have near the inertia working against you as say a 350 or 450 so the weight of the bike has a lot to do with the feel of the suspension.
I can do no wrong on my stock suspended 125 because it's so light but on the 350 or 450 OMG !!! The forks on both the bladder style and 4cs are just too harsh yet have no bottoming resistance on the bigger 4 strokes. They just don't work well through the chop at speed for MX.
Now on my '15 YZ 250F is pure magic. Love that SSS out of the box.

I usually spend at least $1500 on my KTM's to make them MX rideable in the front end. I go with MX-Tech with the Huck Valve.

Jason
Moto3731
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Moto3731 8/30/2015 4:28am
8/30/2015 4:28am
mxjeff575 wrote:
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on...
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on my 2016 250 SXF. I've only had it on 2 tracks, but neither have had bad braking bumps, so honestly, the forks haven't shown anything bad....fairly controlled (no real bumps, big flowing jumps).
Hey bud I actually rode and raced with my 4cs and had them revalved by fc before I made the decision to get rid of them. Your not going to notice how bad they perform until the tracks get rough with alot of square edge. I thought they were great at one track then I went to different track and couldn't believe how bad they were. Fcs revalve helped a little but didn't fix the problem and I had stiffer springs installed and their bcv kit. My cone valves from Billy are absolutely amazing, they are so plush and controlled. They use all the travel and never bottom it's almost a feeling of endless travel. I didn't want to jump right into the cone valves so I tried hard to like the 4cs and had them revalved and everything. In the end I'm very happy I went with the come valves
rocketsocks26 8/30/2015 6:28am
8/30/2015 6:28am
mxjeff575 wrote:
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on...
Rocketsocks26 / Moto3731 - What were your opinions of how the stock 4CS performed and how do the CV's perform? I only have 4 hours on my 2016 250 SXF. I've only had it on 2 tracks, but neither have had bad braking bumps, so honestly, the forks haven't shown anything bad....fairly controlled (no real bumps, big flowing jumps).
Moto3731 wrote:
Hey bud I actually rode and raced with my 4cs and had them revalved by fc before I made the decision to get rid of them...
Hey bud I actually rode and raced with my 4cs and had them revalved by fc before I made the decision to get rid of them. Your not going to notice how bad they perform until the tracks get rough with alot of square edge. I thought they were great at one track then I went to different track and couldn't believe how bad they were. Fcs revalve helped a little but didn't fix the problem and I had stiffer springs installed and their bcv kit. My cone valves from Billy are absolutely amazing, they are so plush and controlled. They use all the travel and never bottom it's almost a feeling of endless travel. I didn't want to jump right into the cone valves so I tried hard to like the 4cs and had them revalved and everything. In the end I'm very happy I went with the come valves
the cc stuff was the same way , id get it really good at the track I was riding and then the next track I was lost again, I had fc do it a few times and spent $2300 at mx tech and after that I gave up. lesson learned, I will NEVER spend that kind of money on oem stuff again! I went ohlins and kept putting them on my next years bike, was probabably one of the smartest things ive done in moto lol, I haven't paid for a revalve in years, just sold my ohlins for $2600 with huckvalves, I paid cost for them in 2014 which was around $2450, and cost on the huckvalves $250 so to have ohlins for little over 2 years it cost me about $100! I rolled that over on my powerband wp A KIT which was $2850 delivered, and I agree with you on the cv, its like you have endless travel, I had one real scary situation where I was jumping off a drop down triple and the rider in front of me really screwd me up and I faced the triple, I thought I was gonna have broken wrists and it didn't even clank! very pillowish, amazing!
Moto3731
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Moto3731 8/30/2015 6:36am
8/30/2015 6:36am
That's what I've been trying to tell people that think spending the money on these come valves is crazy. After you use them for two years you can sell them for the same price just about. I also got mine for 2850 delivered and that was right before a price increase so there already worth more than I paid. O can't tell you the amount of money eyes I've wasted on revalves the past two years and you get nothing back when you sell it. All I know is I've learned my lesson and will be buying get quality stuff here on out. Loose no money and ride the best stuff theres no loss in my eyes.
mxjeff575
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mxjeff575 8/30/2015 7:10am
8/30/2015 7:10am
Thanks for the input. I'm in the getting-to-know phase with my 2016 250SXF and really like it. I guess I owe it to myself to ride one bombed out track before I take the plunge, but everyone's input on WP A-kit makes sense.

CarlinoJoe317 - You have an FMF on the 250F correct? Thoughts on it compared to stock?
CarlinoJoeVideo
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CarlinoJoeVideo 8/30/2015 7:42am
8/30/2015 7:42am
Hey Jeff, yeah I have the FMF but can't really say I felt a world of a difference. I remaped the ECU and use VP T4 and I think that with th FMF make it more crisp.

I've posted some photo on here where someone dyned the fmf on the 250 and there was no gain, but he said if you put the screen in the FMF there was. Not sure though, I never tried the screen.

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