Sandbaggers

GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/12/2014 9:38am
3/12/2014 9:38am
peelout wrote:
sandbaggers make the world go round.

if you can't win, move somewhere else and drop a class and win some races bros
Yep. Chicks checking out my Facebook page only see me standing on the podium in my Monster Energy hat with my Kawasaki towel neatly draped over my shoulder, Oakley goggles slung sideways around my neck, and trophy held high over my head with one hand while the other flashes the #1. There is no way they can make out the "1st Place - 450C" on the little plaque on the trophy.
yak651
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yak651 3/12/2014 9:59am
3/12/2014 9:59am
GrapeApe wrote:
Yep. Chicks checking out my Facebook page only see me standing on the podium in my Monster Energy hat with my Kawasaki towel neatly draped over...
Yep. Chicks checking out my Facebook page only see me standing on the podium in my Monster Energy hat with my Kawasaki towel neatly draped over my shoulder, Oakley goggles slung sideways around my neck, and trophy held high over my head with one hand while the other flashes the #1. There is no way they can make out the "1st Place - 450C" on the little plaque on the trophy.
Ha ha, yep love it when the tracks are too cheap to put what class on the trophy - then I can just say I took 10th place in the pro class instead of everyone knowing if was the beginner class!
Mxdnusa
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Mxdnusa 3/12/2014 10:20am
3/12/2014 10:20am
Low self esteem?
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 3/12/2014 10:33am
3/12/2014 10:33am
My self esteem is fine. I just don't think I was blessed with the ability to be fast enough or fit enough to race with those badasses in the B class.

The Shop

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kzizok
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kzizok 3/12/2014 10:35am
3/12/2014 10:35am
wardy wrote:
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level, well except for the income it provides. if the oem's...
the real challenge is explaining the need for a C class championship at the national level,


well except for the income it provides.


if the oem's would place the cherry on top of the pile, reward the A classes like they should, B class gets scraps and NO C class that stuff wouldn't happen.

But as said in this thread earlier. Business. and it's good business for the chosen few to crown as many champions as possible. it's why we have 4 lap motos. and three day "big" events during school time and home schooling and well the other reasons why this sport has so many issues.

oh crap almost forgot. IN MY opinion.
You are right. They should do away with the C class at these nationals. Then everyone would WANT to move to the B class. Until then, nothing will change. BTW, I have a dog in this fight as my son had a chance to make it to LL's this year or next in the C class but would support it going away all together at the biggest races. It us just stupid the speed a C class rider needs to make it to LL's.
coolhand
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coolhand 3/12/2014 10:58am
3/12/2014 10:58am
Sandbagger= poun tang...
Camp332
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Camp332 3/12/2014 11:04am
3/12/2014 11:04am
Don't be mad Grizz Bro. Make it rainnnn!
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/12/2014 11:27am
3/12/2014 11:27am
As Roger Daltrey once sang, "The Kids are Alright"

1. You get to race C at Loretta's once. Period. Nowadays they even scan the C classes (MX Sports) for would-be "Repeat-Offenders"...altho...it's REALLY THE AMA's RESPONSIBILITY...& THAT INCLUDES THE MEMBERSHIP.

2. Take TOP 5 in the B Class and you're out...see ya next year..."A rider"!

3. Eliminating the C class? Why...exactly...again? Every District has C...hell..."D" class racers and they have a system in place to find out who's fastest among them. What's next? Eliminate C Class Champions at the District Level?

4. "It costs too much", "It isn't fair", "SO-n-SO got a ride and I didn't"...Blah, Blah, Blah. DON'T GO.

5. The only race that ANY of this matters at is Loretta's. PERIOD. That ONE RACE...in the middle of SUMMER...when the kids are outta school. The ACTUAL & ONLY Legitimate "National Championship" for Am.-Moto-heads.

6. Better, yet...let's "CUT BACK on the CLASSES at the SINGLE BIGGEST Am.-Moto race of the year" Why, again? Is it because No-ONE's going? Uh, no, it isn't that.
Is it because we need to CUT BACK ON BIG RACES THAT PEOPLE ATUALLY GO TO AND FILL THE DAMN GATES? Uh, NO...Again!
Is it because we NEED TO CUT BACK ON RACES AND CLASSES IN THIS ECONOMY? Wow, talk about WRONG. Hell, I think it would be nice to have MORE races where families make it a "Destination" and an Important Experience; but, hey...that's just me.

In CLOSING: If you ALL have a Legitimate BITCH with THE AMA SYSTEM...TAKE IT TO THEM. Let you in on a little secret? They WILL Listen. Other-wise, just continue your Sour-Grapes Bitch-Fest and the rest of us will move on.

Signed,

Manny

125 B Participant at the Original LL's in '82 on a STOCK KX125 in Both Stock and Modified.
I went there with an arm in a sling from my original Dislocated Shoulder Injury from Hangtown 2 weeks before LL's...still...I was soooo stoked just to get to go to that race. Didn't get any of the Big Trophies. Didn't leave with a Factory Ride.

I left knowing that I came, I tried, I raced.

ps-Thank You Dave Jordan! You are remembered by more grateful people than you could have ever imagined.
FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 3/12/2014 11:40am
3/12/2014 11:40am
Sandbaggers and . . . CHERYYPICKERS!!

nfm Evil Wink
Trav138
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Trav138 3/12/2014 12:00pm
3/12/2014 12:00pm
That was pretty awesome Manny liked it
LappedU
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LappedU 3/12/2014 12:29pm
3/12/2014 12:29pm
Just be fast enough to go pro, then you don't have to worry about sandbagging!
newmann
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newmann 3/12/2014 12:31pm
3/12/2014 12:31pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Honda? Justin Starling rode for Suzuki and Team Green his last couple of years in the ams. I'm sure Honda did something wrong, though. lol.
Squid-mom wrote:
No, he rode for Honda after Suzuki Won 450B on a Suzuki in 2009, rode a Honda in the A classes in 2010
GrapeApe wrote:
. . . and then Team Green Kawasaki in 2011. I forgot about that brief stint on Honda between Suzuki and Kawasaki. Apparently they owed him...
. . . and then Team Green Kawasaki in 2011. I forgot about that brief stint on Honda between Suzuki and Kawasaki. Apparently they owed him a pro career for the 6th and 7th he got them at LL's in 2010, though.
Oh for shits sake, excuse me for only mentioning Honda. I didn't follow his career closely but do remember seeing him on Honda's, a whole damn fleet of them. And I do remember him posting here about getting lots of support and now there's none. Don't know how many of those Honda's they bought on their own, maybe all of them. Point is, less free shit for the kids at Chicken Licks Raceway would leave more for the ones trying to make a go in the pro ranks.


Been seeing his name on the big screen a lot here lately, so glad to see him getting to the races.
steveada
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steveada 3/12/2014 12:44pm
3/12/2014 12:44pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2014 12:46pm
I think the point of having different classes is to have good racing. i disaggree that the only class that matters is the A class or the B class. Here's an apparently little known fact around here; not everybody has the skills, the equipment, the money, or the time to progress from d class to A class. Some people(myself included) are C class riders for life, but it doesn't take away our love of the sport or the competitive drive we may have. The tracks would be pretty empty if only people destined to become pros where out riding. It's just like life, someone may not have the skills or opportunity to ever be more than a garbage man or a lawyer, but that shouldn't keep them from being the best damn garbage man or lawyer they can be, and take pride in what they do. Something else you might not get is that to a C rider trying to advance his skills and loves racing, the desire and drive to get to LL's is every bit as great as any A rider, and the honr in being there means just as much to him. I'd like some of you posting that C class shouldn't be a part of LL's to show us the video of you burning your C class LL's trophy because you think it is worthless. Oh, what's that? You don't have a C class LL's trophy? What a surprise. Sandbagging sucks, but you have to remember everybody has different skills and learn at different rates. A prodigy may hop on a bike and be smoking everybody in the C class in a few months, but that doesn't mean he is sandbagging. He has every right to be out there as anyone else untl he meets criteria to advance.
lostboy819 3/12/2014 12:54pm
3/12/2014 12:54pm
steveada wrote:
I think the point of having different classes is to have good racing. i disaggree that the only class that matters is the A class or...
I think the point of having different classes is to have good racing. i disaggree that the only class that matters is the A class or the B class. Here's an apparently little known fact around here; not everybody has the skills, the equipment, the money, or the time to progress from d class to A class. Some people(myself included) are C class riders for life, but it doesn't take away our love of the sport or the competitive drive we may have. The tracks would be pretty empty if only people destined to become pros where out riding. It's just like life, someone may not have the skills or opportunity to ever be more than a garbage man or a lawyer, but that shouldn't keep them from being the best damn garbage man or lawyer they can be, and take pride in what they do. Something else you might not get is that to a C rider trying to advance his skills and loves racing, the desire and drive to get to LL's is every bit as great as any A rider, and the honr in being there means just as much to him. I'd like some of you posting that C class shouldn't be a part of LL's to show us the video of you burning your C class LL's trophy because you think it is worthless. Oh, what's that? You don't have a C class LL's trophy? What a surprise. Sandbagging sucks, but you have to remember everybody has different skills and learn at different rates. A prodigy may hop on a bike and be smoking everybody in the C class in a few months, but that doesn't mean he is sandbagging. He has every right to be out there as anyone else untl he meets criteria to advance.
You may be a C class rider for life but when you finish in front of someone then they will call you a sandbagger. Too many people worry way too much about who their kid has to race and they want to get them DQed so little Johnny does not have to race them. most of these people need to do the racing on the track.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/12/2014 1:14pm
3/12/2014 1:14pm
steveada wrote:
I think the point of having different classes is to have good racing. i disaggree that the only class that matters is the A class or...
I think the point of having different classes is to have good racing. i disaggree that the only class that matters is the A class or the B class. Here's an apparently little known fact around here; not everybody has the skills, the equipment, the money, or the time to progress from d class to A class. Some people(myself included) are C class riders for life, but it doesn't take away our love of the sport or the competitive drive we may have. The tracks would be pretty empty if only people destined to become pros where out riding. It's just like life, someone may not have the skills or opportunity to ever be more than a garbage man or a lawyer, but that shouldn't keep them from being the best damn garbage man or lawyer they can be, and take pride in what they do. Something else you might not get is that to a C rider trying to advance his skills and loves racing, the desire and drive to get to LL's is every bit as great as any A rider, and the honr in being there means just as much to him. I'd like some of you posting that C class shouldn't be a part of LL's to show us the video of you burning your C class LL's trophy because you think it is worthless. Oh, what's that? You don't have a C class LL's trophy? What a surprise. Sandbagging sucks, but you have to remember everybody has different skills and learn at different rates. A prodigy may hop on a bike and be smoking everybody in the C class in a few months, but that doesn't mean he is sandbagging. He has every right to be out there as anyone else untl he meets criteria to advance.
lostboy819 wrote:
You may be a C class rider for life but when you finish in front of someone then they will call you a sandbagger. Too many...
You may be a C class rider for life but when you finish in front of someone then they will call you a sandbagger. Too many people worry way too much about who their kid has to race and they want to get them DQed so little Johnny does not have to race them. most of these people need to do the racing on the track.
Bingo
TripleFive 3/12/2014 1:32pm
3/12/2014 1:32pm
When I was at LL Josh Hill won the class that I was in and set the fastest laps of the week. He beat Broc Tickle, Denis Jonon, Wil Hahn, and Sean Hackley,

It was 125 B.
Squid-mom
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Squid-mom 3/12/2014 4:22pm
3/12/2014 4:22pm
Huckster wrote:
the classic pull off....You have to love that. A local kid I ride with does that all the time. I feel for him because he dominates...
the classic pull off....You have to love that. A local kid I ride with does that all the time. I feel for him because he dominates locally but struggles to get top 10's at the AM Nationals in the B class. If he didn't pull off, he would certainly have to move up to A based off his local results and would not be competitve on the national level. So what do you do? The system breeds this. Dont hate the player, hate the game......
That local kid you are referring to would probably have the same results in the AM Nationals A class as he does in the B class. Check the lap times at, they don't lie. This will not change until the AMA does something to stop the cherrypicking. Look at the Daytona results for the A/B race- it was dominated by B riders and A riders that were running B as little as 3 months ago!!! Not to stray too far off topic, the bottom line is, if you have been running the B class for 4 years and have had impressive results, it is time to move up!!!!!

Pit Row

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Squid-mom
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Squid-mom 3/12/2014 4:36pm
3/12/2014 4:36pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2014 4:37pm
kzizok wrote:
You are right. They should do away with the C class at these nationals. Then everyone would WANT to move to the B class. Until then...
You are right. They should do away with the C class at these nationals. Then everyone would WANT to move to the B class. Until then, nothing will change. BTW, I have a dog in this fight as my son had a chance to make it to LL's this year or next in the C class but would support it going away all together at the biggest races. It us just stupid the speed a C class rider needs to make it to LL's.
Not sure that doing away with the C class at nationals is the answer because (a) it brings in a ton of $ for the promoters (b) it will be the only way a true "novice" has a chance to experience an event like LL. What they need to do is find a way to keep the Axell Hodges' of the world from claiming to be a novice when they are living at McGrath's house putting down A class lap times.
sargeant
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sargeant 3/12/2014 4:49pm
3/12/2014 4:49pm
i do the opposite. 40 xpert in canada. 40 intermediate in california. do well up here and get my arc kicked down there
mx836
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mx836 3/12/2014 5:00pm
3/12/2014 5:00pm
They are all sandbaggers!!!!
JK105
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JK105 3/12/2014 5:47pm
3/12/2014 5:47pm
This comes to mind...
Squid-mom
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Squid-mom 3/12/2014 6:25pm
3/12/2014 6:25pm
mx836 wrote:
They are all sandbaggers!!!!
Way to add something constructive to the discussion!
Ing
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Ing 3/12/2014 6:26pm
3/12/2014 6:26pm
Lot of people blowing their own horn.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 3/12/2014 6:42pm
3/12/2014 6:42pm
JK105 wrote:
This comes to mind... [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/03/12/48195/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
This comes to mind...
Explain.

He's a Pro. He hasn't pointed out. He can win races; yet, he hasn't won a title...yet.

So, W T F is your problem with Martin?

Let you in on a little clue: it's a Regional National Championship
GeorgiePorgie 3/12/2014 6:45pm
3/12/2014 6:45pm
bkent136 wrote:
You ever see a C class race in FL or CA... That's REAL sandbagging!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
bigborefan
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bigborefan 3/12/2014 7:08pm
3/12/2014 7:08pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2014 7:10pm
Sandbagging is nothing new. It has been going on for years. It does seem odd though, that a rider can come out of the B class at LLs and race a National a few weeks later and run top 5.

Lie you Manny, I did an early LL race, 1984 for me. Open B. I got waxed real good. I think by the end of the first moto all the numbers were rubbed off my bike form all the ramming. I am still not sure if I had fun or not. But I still have my bib.
Grizz
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Grizz 3/12/2014 7:09pm
3/12/2014 7:09pm
Squid-mom wrote:
The gap from am nats to pro is virtually nothing- remember Cooper went from a B class champion to pro in a matter of months! It...
The gap from am nats to pro is virtually nothing- remember Cooper went from a B class champion to pro in a matter of months! It is not as though he was a gate filler when he got to the pro ranks either.
njracer46 wrote:
Cooper raced A class for like a half a year, he hit so many A races before he turned pro. I remember watching all the vids...
Cooper raced A class for like a half a year, he hit so many A races before he turned pro. I remember watching all the vids from all over and seeing him race am day at unadilla in 2012

Not the time spend that most did in that class but he def. got alot of races in
Squid-mom wrote:
Cooper raced LL in 250B in 2012 and left with a 1st and a 2nd. Moved to A for Mini O's and won almost everything. Went...
Cooper raced LL in 250B in 2012 and left with a 1st and a 2nd. Moved to A for Mini O's and won almost everything. Went to the James Stewart Spring Championship in the A classes and won almost everything, announcing there that is would be his last amatuer race. So, he had 6 months (mostly off-season) as an amatuer A rider. My point was that there is not much 'transitioning' required.
But he practiced that entire time. That's were he went from B speed to A speed. You build it.
GeorgiePorgie 3/12/2014 7:19pm
3/12/2014 7:19pm
Who cares, life ain't fair. There will always be someone else who has an advantage over you. Get over it. People who win the logo are sandbaggers.

Can't beat 'em join em. Buy a new AMA membership print up a birth certy. Ride like a spode then blow everyone doors off when it counts!

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