Neck braces... Your opinion

11/7/2013 3:58pm
Austin824 wrote:
I honestly think if they made a neck brace it's going to help, if it didn't help why would they make one.
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the world?
11/7/2013 4:14pm
turndown84 wrote:
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the...
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the world?
Some folks probably said the same thing when they came out with chest protectors. Like neck protection, not everyone uses them but they have their place.
harvdog412
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11/7/2013 4:32pm
Austin824 wrote:
I honestly think if they made a neck brace it's going to help, if it didn't help why would they make one.
turndown84 wrote:
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the...
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the world?
Sham products??? ... just like boots, full coverage helmets, goggles, gloves, knee braces, chest protectors.... give me a break. idiot
11/7/2013 4:40pm
Austin824 wrote:
I honestly think if they made a neck brace it's going to help, if it didn't help why would they make one.
turndown84 wrote:
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the...
Money. There was a huge market where nothing like it existed. You honestly think this would be the first sham product to hit shelves around the world?
harvdog412 wrote:
Sham products??? ... just like boots, full coverage helmets, goggles, gloves, knee braces, chest protectors.... give me a break. idiot
I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here. But I didn't say any of those products you mentioned were a sham.

The Shop

11/7/2013 4:53pm
Wore a Leatt for about 5 years . Cost me a broken collarbone but I believe it saved me from at least 1 neck injury. I landed right on the top of my grape. Had 1 bruise on my neck & 1 where the brace rested on my back.
Started wearing an Atlas last year & I love it. I don't even know its there.
I'll never ride without it.
Tracktor
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11/8/2013 1:14pm
My Leatt broke my collarbone. I thank it everyday because the crash could've been so much worse (due to my own stupidity). I will post the helmet cam when I get home. I landed right on my head. Afterwards I went to dinner with my wife and a few friends in a X-brace. Better than laying in a hospital somewhere.............
ocscottie
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11/8/2013 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 11/8/2013 2:48pm
"This is one of the most insulting, paranoid and naive posts I have ever read. "

Dont even sweat it Phil, it was made by a complete spineless pussy who created that account just to make that post. Zero credibility.

Kind of expected more from you SB...then again maybe i didnt.
Indy mxer
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11/8/2013 3:29pm
Yeah, I don't get some of these idiots. If you don't want to wear one, that's your choice.
I have no problem with that.
But to come on here and try to justify not wearing one by saying they don't help, and sometimes do more damage than good is asinine!

It's an insult to all of us who wear them when they insinuate we're all a bunch of suckers for buying a gimmick.
Like many on here, I'm convinced my brace saved my ass when I really needed it. Now are they 100% effective? No, but I feel they do reduce the risk.
And although my 2 boys are grown, if they were kids I would not let them get on a bike without one on.
NV/HC!
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11/8/2013 3:31pm
I was wondering if anyone wearing these braces, specifically the A-Stars brace has actually read the manual it comes with. According to the manual, ideally you want the brace to sit flush on the base of the helmet to achieve the most protection from a compression injury. The further the gap between the helmet and brace the more chance of injury, and after 1.5 in - 2 in, there is little to no advantage to wearing the brace (per their manual and study). According to their own study, the neck would break and break the spinal cord before your helmet ever contacted the brace to stop compression. I liked that they are honest about that.

Now most people I see wearing neck protection either look super uncomfortable, such as those of us with shorter necks, or say they can hardly tell it's on (longer neck people). In the case of longer necks, based on the A-stars testing, the brace wouldn't even help you, because you have a huge gap between your helmet and the brace.

For riders with shorter necks, such as myself, I felt ten times more likely to crash because the brace didn't allow me to raise my elbows and shoulders and keep the proper riding attack position, as well as limiting my ability to look up and further down the track. I tried both the Leatt and A-Stars brace. Obviously the Leatt sits higher and limited me more, but with the A-stars, I adjusted it and measured the gap between my helmet and the brace and at the spot I felt comfortable and had the proper neck range of motion to ride properly, the brace would have done nothing for me (according to their manual).

It's only common sense to acknowledge that a brace, sitting high enough to be constantly or nearly always in contact with your helmet will prevent a neck compression injury. But who can actually ride with their head in one spot?

Interestingly A-Stars also claimed that the reason for their lower wing and front piece is because the neck is designed to hyper extend to protect itself, and that rarely is paralysis caused by a hyper extension of the neck.

I'm not a doctor, or a neck brace hater, and these are just my observations from reading and attempting to use them. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong! I just don't see the point in wearing one based on what I've observed.
mx836
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11/8/2013 4:34pm
Indy mxer wrote:
Yeah, I don't get some of these idiots. If you don't want to wear one, that's your choice. I have no problem with that. But to...
Yeah, I don't get some of these idiots. If you don't want to wear one, that's your choice.
I have no problem with that.
But to come on here and try to justify not wearing one by saying they don't help, and sometimes do more damage than good is asinine!

It's an insult to all of us who wear them when they insinuate we're all a bunch of suckers for buying a gimmick.
Like many on here, I'm convinced my brace saved my ass when I really needed it. Now are they 100% effective? No, but I feel they do reduce the risk.
And although my 2 boys are grown, if they were kids I would not let them get on a bike without one on.
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people who are bitching and moaning that braces are the "cat's meow" have nothing more to go by than the people who don't like them. It is personal preference. Sure is amazing how many people "would have had" serious neck injuries every time one of these threads pop up.
48dirtbikekid
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11/8/2013 4:39pm
mx836 wrote:
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people...
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people who are bitching and moaning that braces are the "cat's meow" have nothing more to go by than the people who don't like them. It is personal preference. Sure is amazing how many people "would have had" serious neck injuries every time one of these threads pop up.
That THE BEST post I've ever read on vital! A lot of self diagnosis going on, crazy how ppl can't look at it 2 ways the OP wanted opinions anyway!
JM485
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11/8/2013 10:43pm
mx836 wrote:
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people...
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people who are bitching and moaning that braces are the "cat's meow" have nothing more to go by than the people who don't like them. It is personal preference. Sure is amazing how many people "would have had" serious neck injuries every time one of these threads pop up.
Really, we don't have any more evidence supporting that neck braces work than you guys just posting whatever crap you come up with? I truly hope people are able to read past all of the mindless posts in this thread and understand that there are some educated opinions with facts to back them up, and some opinions based off of nothing more than ignorance. Amazing.
mx836
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11/9/2013 6:50am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2013 6:56am
mx836 wrote:
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people...
It goes both ways. This is a thread where the OP asked for opinions, so people can voice their opinion however they feel. And the people who are bitching and moaning that braces are the "cat's meow" have nothing more to go by than the people who don't like them. It is personal preference. Sure is amazing how many people "would have had" serious neck injuries every time one of these threads pop up.
JM485 wrote:
Really, we don't have any more evidence supporting that neck braces work than you guys just posting whatever crap you come up with? I truly hope...
Really, we don't have any more evidence supporting that neck braces work than you guys just posting whatever crap you come up with? I truly hope people are able to read past all of the mindless posts in this thread and understand that there are some educated opinions with facts to back them up, and some opinions based off of nothing more than ignorance. Amazing.
"you guys" ? Didn't know I was part of any particular group when I posted that. Was neutral on the subject for the most part. I'm more against a bunch of dweebs trying to shove a neck brace down my throat like religion or politics than the neck brace itself. EVERYTHING is breakable. The fuck if I want something around my neck that can break. Before you think to yourself, what are the chances that could happen to me, what are the chances you will have a major neck injury? Not great, but shit happens. Don't they make these out of carbon fiber now? You ever touch broken carbon fiber? Sharp as glass. There was a post on here years ago where a young racer (15) from overseas crashed and got ran over on the neck while wearing a Leatt. I won't post the link out of respect for the rider, because he died on the way to the hospital from his neck being cut so badly. It is not proven, or wasn't at the time at least, that the brace caused this kids death. That's just what the member here posted they had heard when they created the thread. Not a broken collar bone, death.

Edit: So, before you go spouting off, maybe think about some of the reasons why people don't want to wear them, even if they can be helpful.
CamP
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11/9/2013 7:58am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2013 8:02am
mx836 wrote:
"you guys" ? Didn't know I was part of any particular group when I posted that. Was neutral on the subject for the most part. I'm...
"you guys" ? Didn't know I was part of any particular group when I posted that. Was neutral on the subject for the most part. I'm more against a bunch of dweebs trying to shove a neck brace down my throat like religion or politics than the neck brace itself. EVERYTHING is breakable. The fuck if I want something around my neck that can break. Before you think to yourself, what are the chances that could happen to me, what are the chances you will have a major neck injury? Not great, but shit happens. Don't they make these out of carbon fiber now? You ever touch broken carbon fiber? Sharp as glass. There was a post on here years ago where a young racer (15) from overseas crashed and got ran over on the neck while wearing a Leatt. I won't post the link out of respect for the rider, because he died on the way to the hospital from his neck being cut so badly. It is not proven, or wasn't at the time at least, that the brace caused this kids death. That's just what the member here posted they had heard when they created the thread. Not a broken collar bone, death.

Edit: So, before you go spouting off, maybe think about some of the reasons why people don't want to wear them, even if they can be helpful.
The racing organization running the race where that kid got killed performed an inquiry into that crash, and determined that the neck brace was not responsible for the injuries that caused his death. In fact, there are no deaths that have been proven to be the result of a neck brace. Zero.

On the other hand, the is real proof that neck braces reduce the forces on the neck during certain types of loading. It's that reduction in forces that may mean the difference between walking away from a crash, or steering a wheelchair with you tongue for the rest of your life.
mx836
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11/9/2013 8:48am Edited Date/Time 11/9/2013 8:57am
CamP wrote:
The racing organization running the race where that kid got killed performed an inquiry into that crash, and determined that the neck brace was not responsible...
The racing organization running the race where that kid got killed performed an inquiry into that crash, and determined that the neck brace was not responsible for the injuries that caused his death. In fact, there are no deaths that have been proven to be the result of a neck brace. Zero.

On the other hand, the is real proof that neck braces reduce the forces on the neck during certain types of loading. It's that reduction in forces that may mean the difference between walking away from a crash, or steering a wheelchair with you tongue for the rest of your life.
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad. Like I said in my original post, it is personal preference and the OP was looking for opinions. I'm not trying to go back and forth with anyone. I personally don't want one around my neck, but don't mind if others do and understand why. Also like previously stated, it is quite sad how some of you try to push these braces on people like Obamacare, getting angry that someone doesn't share the same belief as yourself. You have any links to the racing organization talking about this inquiry? I'd like to read about it.
CamP
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11/9/2013 8:57am
mx836 wrote:
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad...
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad. Like I said in my original post, it is personal preference and the OP was looking for opinions. I'm not trying to go back and forth with anyone. I personally don't want one around my neck, but don't mind if others do and understand why. Also like previously stated, it is quite sad how some of you try to push these braces on people like Obamacare, getting angry that someone doesn't share the same belief as yourself. You have any links to the racing organization talking about this inquiry? I'd like to read about it.
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear one, that's your prerogative, but don't be surprised when you get a rebuttal when you post some hearsay about the brace injuring/killing someone.

I'll look for the official document from the racing organization clearing the brace in the death of that young racer in Europe. There is a copy of it floating around the interweb.
mx836
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11/9/2013 9:22am
mx836 wrote:
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad...
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad. Like I said in my original post, it is personal preference and the OP was looking for opinions. I'm not trying to go back and forth with anyone. I personally don't want one around my neck, but don't mind if others do and understand why. Also like previously stated, it is quite sad how some of you try to push these braces on people like Obamacare, getting angry that someone doesn't share the same belief as yourself. You have any links to the racing organization talking about this inquiry? I'd like to read about it.
CamP wrote:
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear...
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear one, that's your prerogative, but don't be surprised when you get a rebuttal when you post some hearsay about the brace injuring/killing someone.

I'll look for the official document from the racing organization clearing the brace in the death of that young racer in Europe. There is a copy of it floating around the interweb.
I stated it was rumor and not proven. Just relating to why I personally am not a fan of them. I appreciate you clearing that up.
Suns_PSD
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11/9/2013 9:29am
It would be helpful if some racing organization, like the AMA, took down some basic statistics.

They count the number of broken necks from compression injuries
The number of injured necks from hyper flexion.
They count the number of broken collarbones.
They count the number of broken upper vertebrae.

And then they simply compare that to the % of riders wearing a neck brace versus those that are not. Pretty simple. If (for example) 30% of the pro riders were wearing a neck brace during a particular season, and 50% of the riders that broke a collarbone, were wearing a neck brace, you could see very quickly that neck braces are indeed a factor in broken collarbones. Not that this is the only consideration in whether you should use a neckbrace, it's just that collarbones would be an easy statistic to track with a higher sample size.

I also read the A-Star info and as was mentioned, based on the research info they provided, their brace would do absolutely nothing for a skinny guy like me w/ low shoulders and a long neck. They stated something like 1"-1.5" gap maximum to prevent compression injury, and even w/ all the spacers I added to lift the neck brace up more, it's still like 3.5" from my helmet. It sits on the shelf now.
JM485
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11/9/2013 2:20pm
mx836 wrote:
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad...
Reading comprehension is funny. I wasn't talking about forces on the neck. I explained why I don't like them. If you don't like it, too bad. Like I said in my original post, it is personal preference and the OP was looking for opinions. I'm not trying to go back and forth with anyone. I personally don't want one around my neck, but don't mind if others do and understand why. Also like previously stated, it is quite sad how some of you try to push these braces on people like Obamacare, getting angry that someone doesn't share the same belief as yourself. You have any links to the racing organization talking about this inquiry? I'd like to read about it.
The point you are missing is that people are spreading wild rumors around about how braces supposedly kill people and don't work. If someone posted "I don't wear one because I don't like the fit" I would have no problem with that. It's when people post up random theories about neck braces causing head trauma and killing people that have absolutely no scientific data to back them up, that is when I have a problem. If you don't like the braces, that's fine, nobody is forcing anyone to wear them, but people should not be bashing them when they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. I'm guessing a few people on here think that the 6d helmet is a total hoax as well, I wonder how long it will be until those helmets start killing people to.
CamP
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11/9/2013 7:56pm Edited Date/Time 11/9/2013 8:00pm
edit
CamP
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11/9/2013 8:00pm
There it is. Another rumor/lie about the Leatt brace shot to hell.

I've come to the conclusion that certain people "want" the brace to not work as advertized, which boggles my mind.
TeamGreen
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11/9/2013 8:52pm
Put one of my Leatts on a friend, today...

He didn't even notice it (Carbon Pro w/ Shoei. Back tab adjusted correctly).

Boom!

Another guy wearing MORE safety equipment.
11/10/2013 3:08am
CamP wrote:
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear...
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear one, that's your prerogative, but don't be surprised when you get a rebuttal when you post some hearsay about the brace injuring/killing someone.

I'll look for the official document from the racing organization clearing the brace in the death of that young racer in Europe. There is a copy of it floating around the interweb.
In my neck of the woods (excuse the pun) the causes or otherwise of death are determined by qualified Pathologists rather than racing organisations.
Socket946
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11/10/2013 8:19am
CamP wrote:
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear...
Like I said, there is real proof that they work, but there is no real proof that they are harmful. If you don't want to wear one, that's your prerogative, but don't be surprised when you get a rebuttal when you post some hearsay about the brace injuring/killing someone.

I'll look for the official document from the racing organization clearing the brace in the death of that young racer in Europe. There is a copy of it floating around the interweb.
In my neck of the woods (excuse the pun) the causes or otherwise of death are determined by qualified Pathologists rather than racing organisations.
And you think, just for 1 moment, that the FIM maybe, just maybe, employs a Pathologist to do such investigating?

This thread is horrible: The Anti-neck brace crowd hurls negative insults and almost personal like attacks; where the defenders use logic, facts, and reasoning.

Blows my mind people could be so passionate against something designed to protect you.....

I haven't tried a neck brace, but I do wear asterisk knee braces, and LOVE them.

I'll be better qualified when I finally try a neck brace soon enough....
11/10/2013 8:50am
Socket946 wrote:
And you think, just for 1 moment, that the FIM maybe, just maybe, employs a Pathologist to do such investigating? This thread is horrible: The Anti-neck...
And you think, just for 1 moment, that the FIM maybe, just maybe, employs a Pathologist to do such investigating?

This thread is horrible: The Anti-neck brace crowd hurls negative insults and almost personal like attacks; where the defenders use logic, facts, and reasoning.

Blows my mind people could be so passionate against something designed to protect you.....

I haven't tried a neck brace, but I do wear asterisk knee braces, and LOVE them.

I'll be better qualified when I finally try a neck brace soon enough....
''And you think, just for 1 moment, that the FIM maybe, just maybe, employs a Pathologist to do such investigating?''

Not for a heartbeat.

Do you seriously think a third party can just hire a pathologist to conduct a post mortem on somebody of their choosing?

I've got my head in my hands.
Griff.747
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11/10/2013 9:39am
''And you think, just for 1 moment, that the FIM maybe, just maybe, employs a Pathologist to do such investigating?'' Not for a heartbeat. Do you...
''And you think, just for 1 moment, that the FIM maybe, just maybe, employs a Pathologist to do such investigating?''

Not for a heartbeat.

Do you seriously think a third party can just hire a pathologist to conduct a post mortem on somebody of their choosing?

I've got my head in my hands.
Sounds to me like your head is up your ass not in your hands if your dumb enough to think they wouldn't hire a third party to investigate.
Trav138
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11/10/2013 12:51pm
Suns_PSD wrote:
It would be helpful if some racing organization, like the AMA, took down some basic statistics. They count the number of broken necks from compression injuries...
It would be helpful if some racing organization, like the AMA, took down some basic statistics.

They count the number of broken necks from compression injuries
The number of injured necks from hyper flexion.
They count the number of broken collarbones.
They count the number of broken upper vertebrae.

And then they simply compare that to the % of riders wearing a neck brace versus those that are not. Pretty simple. If (for example) 30% of the pro riders were wearing a neck brace during a particular season, and 50% of the riders that broke a collarbone, were wearing a neck brace, you could see very quickly that neck braces are indeed a factor in broken collarbones. Not that this is the only consideration in whether you should use a neckbrace, it's just that collarbones would be an easy statistic to track with a higher sample size.

I also read the A-Star info and as was mentioned, based on the research info they provided, their brace would do absolutely nothing for a skinny guy like me w/ low shoulders and a long neck. They stated something like 1"-1.5" gap maximum to prevent compression injury, and even w/ all the spacers I added to lift the neck brace up more, it's still like 3.5" from my helmet. It sits on the shelf now.
In theory this would be great t o have some real stats on injuries and type of equipment used not used. This sport is so hush hush from the top down to the local level. I believe now its better with social media and such but you have privacy laws and difficult situations for folks dealing with serious injuries. That makes it tough to follow up and record some of those stats.

The sport could really benefit from those stats. Obviously they would have to be recorded without bias and agenda and unfortunately the lawyers and insurance scum would use the data in a negative way. If done legit this info could lead to some ground breaking improvements in everything from injury prevention,track safety, and improved safety equipment. This would require some real hands on leadership from the top dogs and organizations in the mx world. Perhaps an appointed safety committee that could handle this task among others. I think the sport is too small and divided for this to work though.
11/10/2013 1:17pm
Griff.747 wrote:
Sounds to me like your head is up your ass not in your hands if your dumb enough to think they wouldn't hire a third party...
Sounds to me like your head is up your ass not in your hands if your dumb enough to think they wouldn't hire a third party to investigate.
You misunderstood.

The third party is the racing organization, who can investigate the circumstances of a death but causes of death are determined by a Pathologist or Coroner, contrary to what CamP believes.

Only the immediate relatives of the deceased or a legally authorised authority can appoint a pathologist or coroner to perform a post mortem, which clearly excludes the Federation of International Motorcycling.

Is that clear enough for you?
11/10/2013 1:20pm
It's the same as a seat belt. It won't save you every time but it will improve your chances of surviving if you need it.

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