Neck braces... Your opinion

ToolMaker
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ToolMaker 10/27/2013 10:28pm
10/27/2013 10:28pm
I don't believe you'll ever be able to verify the crash was worse or better because of the brace. I think they are a worthwhile piece of safety gear. I started many years ago in a machine shop when safety glasses were optional. I chose not to wear them. While I didn't lose my eyesight, looking back I see it was a stupid decision. I think any piece of safety gear takes time to catch on. To this day you can find people that will tell you they are safer without seat belts driving their car. I think the data will eventually show less damage as a whole, but as an individual digger how can you say what would have, could have, should have happened.
TM
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Tiki 10/27/2013 10:39pm
10/27/2013 10:39pm
McGinnis_339 wrote:
2 strokes + slower speeds= No need to wear a neck brace. Stupid 4 strokes
Ha ha half right. I haven't seen a whole lot of slow two strokes. Maybe my slow speed, some of those kids haul mail!
cablecable 10/28/2013 2:25am
10/28/2013 2:25am
so if neck braces do nothing why does pretty every other motorsport run them? F1 the most highly regarded and they all use them
MX690
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MX690 10/28/2013 4:49am
10/28/2013 4:49am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2013 4:51am
cablecable wrote:
so if neck braces do nothing why does pretty every other motorsport run them? F1 the most highly regarded and they all use them
Completely different neck braces for completely different types of accidents. Just because one works ( Hans) it doesn't mean the other one will or does.

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Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 10/28/2013 5:46am
10/28/2013 5:46am
cablecable wrote:
so if neck braces do nothing why does pretty every other motorsport run them? F1 the most highly regarded and they all use them
MX690 wrote:
Completely different neck braces for completely different types of accidents. Just because one works ( Hans) it doesn't mean the other one will or does.
Yes, but they're all designed to basically do the same thing, limit hyper extension of the neck.
steveada
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steveada 10/28/2013 7:21am
10/28/2013 7:21am
They will save your life, kill you, prevent a broken neck, cause a broken back, cause a head injury, prevent paralysis, cramp your riding style, and make you feel secure when riding.
JM485
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JM485 10/28/2013 9:20am
10/28/2013 9:20am
steveada wrote:
They will save your life, kill you, prevent a broken neck, cause a broken back, cause a head injury, prevent paralysis, cramp your riding style, and...
They will save your life, kill you, prevent a broken neck, cause a broken back, cause a head injury, prevent paralysis, cramp your riding style, and make you feel secure when riding.
Laughing if you believe everything you read on here that pretty much covers it.
toddh
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toddh 10/28/2013 10:13am
10/28/2013 10:13am
dantheman wrote:
I'm not trying to be a smartass here so don't take it that way ;) I started watching/riding MX in '87, so that's 26 years. The...
I'm not trying to be a smartass here so don't take it that way Wink

I started watching/riding MX in '87, so that's 26 years. The David Bailey video for Leatt's was published here in '07.
Speaking of PRO's only, how many have suffered paralysis without neck braces? I can only think of two, Bailey and Fonseca.
I say PRO's only cause they obviously ride/race the most and at such a higher level.

MX/SX is dangerous, we all know that. This very board is littered with injury riddled posters. Pretty much if you ride, you've broken/torn something... multiple times. My point is, at the time David made that video I just didn't "see" widespread neck injury and or paralysis.

I'm not for or against neck braces, I only thought the original design was flawed. And since they have moved away from that well, that's proof enough for me to believe my doubts.

Just a few thoughts...
Seriously? You can only think of two? Let's try again.
Choppy
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Choppy 10/28/2013 10:26am
10/28/2013 10:26am
LEATT has done a study on the brace, with doctors who have no affiliation with the company signing their names and reputation on the line saying the data in the study is correct, but that won't be enough for the doubters.

Hey, if you want to take your RYNOganic supplements and listen to an ex-racer tell you they will "kill you" be my guest. Of course this same genius gets in fights at Mammoth...

I don't care what you guys do, but the data is out there if you really care
flyinb501
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flyinb501 10/28/2013 10:33am
10/28/2013 10:33am
Griff.747 wrote:
So it might have been done before, but what are your opinions on neck braces. Good, bad, or indifferent. Also why do you think more pros...
So it might have been done before, but what are your opinions on neck braces. Good, bad, or indifferent.

Also why do you think more pros don't wear them?
My opinion is that you are an idiot if you ride without one. I broke my neck back in 2000 (made a full recovery), and I can confidently say that a Leatt brace would have prevented my injury. Try wearing a halo for 3 months. It is hell. And we all know there are much worse case scenarios that can come from a broken neck. If you don't want to take measures to help prevent that, then I don't know what else to tell you...
flyinb501
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flyinb501 10/28/2013 10:34am
10/28/2013 10:34am
By the way, I have a carbon pro Leatt and it's not even noticeable when I have it on.
JM485
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JM485 11/4/2013 8:12pm
11/4/2013 8:12pm
I tried using logic earlier in this thread, it has no effect on them. Good luck trying though.
Fearo
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Fearo 11/5/2013 1:19am
11/5/2013 1:19am
I bought my Leatt Brace (the original KTM-licenced one) in 07 and have never thrown a leg over a bike without my brace on since. I am a firm believer in the product and I've also decided never to buy a neck brace from anyone other than Leatt, because I strongly believe that without Dr. Leatt pioneering this thing, none of the other companies would be making one today (or at least not as advanced as it is now.)
fanger
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fanger 11/5/2013 4:25am
11/5/2013 4:25am
the amount of times i've face planted and been concussed from not being able to tuck/move my head due to the neck brace restricting movement is ridiculous, i've always worn a brace since they came out, but i won't continue to do so after i left it at home one day and had another crash where i would have face planted with it on, but didn't because i had no neck brace restricting my movement and easily tucked my head and rolled out of the crash, broke a collar bone in the process but i'd rather that than noodle myself for the 100th time.

I'm not saying this to bag or try prove anybody wrong, but I think it's a serious flaw in the design (i know the restricted movement is what saves the neck). just curious if any research has been done into the subject and what the results were? i look forward to heearing back from you Phil.
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seth505 11/5/2013 7:28am
11/5/2013 7:28am
fanger wrote:
the amount of times i've face planted and been concussed from not being able to tuck/move my head due to the neck brace restricting movement is...
the amount of times i've face planted and been concussed from not being able to tuck/move my head due to the neck brace restricting movement is ridiculous, i've always worn a brace since they came out, but i won't continue to do so after i left it at home one day and had another crash where i would have face planted with it on, but didn't because i had no neck brace restricting my movement and easily tucked my head and rolled out of the crash, broke a collar bone in the process but i'd rather that than noodle myself for the 100th time.

I'm not saying this to bag or try prove anybody wrong, but I think it's a serious flaw in the design (i know the restricted movement is what saves the neck). just curious if any research has been done into the subject and what the results were? i look forward to heearing back from you Phil.
Dude, if you are face planting/getting concussed a "ridiculous" amount then it sounds like you need to calm down or ride differently...stay safe bro!
CamP
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CamP 11/6/2013 10:29am
11/6/2013 10:29am
The "tuck and roll instead of wearing a brace" argument is idiotic.
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Jharper 11/6/2013 11:56am
11/6/2013 11:56am
TeamPropainTurbo38t wrote:
I wore one for two years. I didn't notice it after the first weekend BUT the fact that I noticed it the first 5 motos I...
I wore one for two years. I didn't notice it after the first weekend BUT the fact that I noticed it the first 5 motos I did with it makes me feel that it changed my riding position. I started jumping ramps about 4 years ago and really noticed it. I think because you look up a little more because of how steep the face is. I took it off 2 years ago and I rode (on ramps atleast) 100 x better and more comfortable. There are two sides to each story. I am sure that having a Leatt or AS or Atlas brace has saved people from paralysis and on the flip side I am sure wearing the brace has caused people paralysis or even death(McFarlane? Roziki?). It's probably got results similar to a seatbelt except a seatbelt has a BAZILLION X more testing where as neck brace testing is VERY limited. I wear my seat belt(by choice). I am aware that I can still die with my seatbelt on. I do not wear a Leatt or any other neck brace by choice. I am aware that I can die with or without one as several people have. My reasoning for not wearing one is that I am in my comfort zone. Dave
TeamPropainTurbo38t wrote:
And you don't see TP wearing one.....and that fugger is still walkin....
I feel exactly the same. Lately while riding moto I prefer to have one on, but it hinders so much movement on ramps that it may cause a crash that never would have happened in the first place.

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GeorgiePorgie 11/6/2013 2:15pm
11/6/2013 2:15pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2013 2:20pm
Bret wrote:
Consumer testimony can't be used as proof that a neck device prevented injury or saved a life. I could just as easily claim that since I...
Consumer testimony can't be used as proof that a neck device prevented injury or saved a life. I could just as easily claim that since I was wearing my lucky socks in every crash and was never injured, the socks prevented my injuries. Without some sort of acquired data from the crash to back up the claim, it is speculation at best.

I was under the impression that compression injury is the most common and damaging injury to the spine. A neck brace will not protect against this sort of impact. Looking at the design of the product, it appears to be able to handle hyper-extension prevention quite well.

In the end, it really is a choice that boils down to what makes the rider more comfortable. I am one of the few guys at the track that wears a kidney belt and a chest protector. They may or may not serve any useful purpose but I feel funny riding without them. As for neck devices and knee braces, I don't wear either one by choice. My decision is based on conversations with medical professionals, articles I have read, and by evaluating the products myself. While there may be certain types of crashes and impacts that these devices do exactly what they are intended to do, there are limits. In my opinion, these devices have a narrow range of protective capability. I also feel that they can introduce injury that can be equal to or worse than the one they were designed to protect against. I think I would rather have my joints and ligaments flex than concentrate the forces of the impact to another location. While you may or may not agree, this is my decision and I am completely comfortable with it. Your mileage may vary. Bret
Indy mxer wrote:
Fine don't wear one. Nobody here is saying you should. Do what works for you. But your lucky socks analogy is laughable and lacks common sense...
Fine don't wear one. Nobody here is saying you should. Do what works for you. But your lucky socks analogy is laughable and lacks common sense.

It seems your basically saying all of us who believe they work and have examples of where they did, are full of shit.
Leatt has the research but it's not credible. A doctor told a rider his opinion was it saved him from further injury but what does he know.
Many on here, including myself have had bad wrecks where we were glad we had one on but we can't prove it helped.
Blah, blah, blah.
Some of you will never be convinced, and that's ok. But you can't prove a negative.
The research is out there saying they help. Any saying they don't work?

And btw, they do offer a certain amount of protection from compression. It will only let your neck compress to the point where your helmet hits the brace. Then it's transmitted to the collarbone/shoulder area.
Indy mx:You're kind of a typical asshole on this subject. Nobody knows whether these things work or not. When there's data from engineers that show me explicitly they work. I'll put one on. I'm not going on opinions of everyone. All I'm saying is that there's no evidence. And personally which shouldn't mean shit to anyone but myself: I'm not wearing them.

Furthermore: I'm trying to be all professional, don't take this as me stabbing you, or calling you an idiot. And I apologize for the asshole comments, but you're attacking everyone for going against this Neck brace ideology. I'm not attacking everyone else for going with it!

Your knees are not made to hyperextend. I’m not trying to brag or be a dousche, but I work in surgical ICU. Yes, I’m just a silly stupid nurse. The real brains of the outfit are always the doctors. (sarcasm heavy) There are very good doctors, and very bad doctors. Just as there are very good nurses/bad nurses, good plumbers/bad plumbers.
Your hans device statement is invalid as well. We are not strapped into a car and we do not rightfully sit up.
A rider flips over the handlebars (pretty common crash) that leatt brace restricted movement and pile drived my friend into the ground. It was like diving perpendicularly into an empty pool. Say he didn’t have it on, would his have rolled and gave a little and not compressed his t5? We still don’t know for sure. But that doesn't mean WE DO KNOW FOR SURE THEY HELP PEOPLE.

WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT NOBODY IS TESTING THESE THINGS AND WE DON’T KNOW IF THEY WORK OR NOT. I do wear knee braces. Again, you knee is not designed to hyperextend or move laterally. Next time you do any of those let me know how it feels. (Next thing someone will say is “oh it’ll break your femur” again, maybe who knows. It’s all personal choice and what makes you feel safe)

Ill be back in 8 pages, and I'll get fed up by the 4th page to read your responses on attacking everyone that i'll stop and try to answer a few questions.
GeorgiePorgie 11/6/2013 3:21pm
11/6/2013 3:21pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2013 3:41pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Nobody testing them?

Oh, ok.
Oh, ok. I'm sorry.

I should have said there are no 3rd parties testing these things. If there are, I'd like to see the data. And in fact, if I can see some engineering team show me concrete facts that have nothing to with any of the companies....

Leatt, Alpinestar, Atlas.....all of them. I'll go out tomorrow and put one on if it's proven they can help.


No offense to Davey at Leatt or any other company, But in house testing I don't trust. Yes, it's all done in good fashion. But politicians are all for the people as well. Maybe that's a rude way to put it, and I apologize. But I just would feel more comfortable with organizations/engineers/companies (like DOT/SNELL ECE for helmets) that test these things that have absolutely no affiliations with the companies.

I'm gonna stop beating the dead horse. No reason to make more enemies based on opinion only.
JM485
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JM485 11/6/2013 3:46pm
11/6/2013 3:46pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Nobody testing them?

Oh, ok.
GeorgiePorgie wrote:
Oh, ok. I'm sorry. I should have said there are no 3rd parties testing these things. If there are, I'd like to see the data. And...
Oh, ok. I'm sorry.

I should have said there are no 3rd parties testing these things. If there are, I'd like to see the data. And in fact, if I can see some engineering team show me concrete facts that have nothing to with any of the companies....

Leatt, Alpinestar, Atlas.....all of them. I'll go out tomorrow and put one on if it's proven they can help.


No offense to Davey at Leatt or any other company, But in house testing I don't trust. Yes, it's all done in good fashion. But politicians are all for the people as well. Maybe that's a rude way to put it, and I apologize. But I just would feel more comfortable with organizations/engineers/companies (like DOT/SNELL ECE for helmets) that test these things that have absolutely no affiliations with the companies.

I'm gonna stop beating the dead horse. No reason to make more enemies based on opinion only.
If you are so sure they don't work and that there is no third party study saying they do, why not do a damn study yourself? Obviously Leatt is not qualified to do such a study, since they are just a greedy company with no knowledge in the field what-so-ever (read: heavy sarcasm) I'm sure I am not the only one sick of people posting useless crap in this thread that has no logical premise to back it up, so can you please provide ONE study that says these things cause more harm that good? I highly doubt we will see a response.
GeorgiePorgie 11/6/2013 4:05pm
11/6/2013 4:05pm
I don't have the tools necessary, or funding to produce a study like that.

And I never said Leatt is not qualified. They are probably more than qualified. Everyone has good logic on both sides, they will be tested by a third party one day and we will all know what your chances are (probably down to an exact percentage) of them helping you in a motocross crash.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 11/6/2013 5:34pm
11/6/2013 5:34pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2013 5:43pm
I'm 50.

I ride in Baja & just rode the Vet Worlds. I pretty much ride all sorts of stuff "in-between". My Wife got me my 1st Neck-Device. A Leatt.

Why? She "over-heard" a conversation between me & my rider (Jiri Dostal) on the matter & she went out, on here own, & got me one via TLD's 1st shipment of the big'Ol Grey plastic ones (Still have it!). I opened a box at Christmas and there it was. I sat down w/my BYU educated Ortho-ped and he saw the "Anti-Compression" advantages IMMEDIATELY!

I've been wearing one ever since.

In June, 2011 I lost an argument w/ a Rock the size of a new VW Beetle. Right Shoulder: Cuff, Labrum & long-bicep DESTROYED. Compressed (slight) some T & C vertebrae...

I was wearing the Leatt.

My Dr. as mentioned above had to do a coupl'a surgeries to put me back together.

Now, we are both "Believers".
scrubbin627 11/6/2013 5:38pm
11/6/2013 5:38pm Edited Date/Time 11/6/2013 5:40pm
I will not ride without one. Dress for the crash...

edit...my avatar pic was taken in 2005 before I owned one
Indy mxer
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Indy mxer 11/6/2013 6:10pm
11/6/2013 6:10pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm 50. I ride in Baja & just rode the Vet Worlds. I pretty much ride all sorts of stuff "in-between". My Wife got me my...
I'm 50.

I ride in Baja & just rode the Vet Worlds. I pretty much ride all sorts of stuff "in-between". My Wife got me my 1st Neck-Device. A Leatt.

Why? She "over-heard" a conversation between me & my rider (Jiri Dostal) on the matter & she went out, on here own, & got me one via TLD's 1st shipment of the big'Ol Grey plastic ones (Still have it!). I opened a box at Christmas and there it was. I sat down w/my BYU educated Ortho-ped and he saw the "Anti-Compression" advantages IMMEDIATELY!

I've been wearing one ever since.

In June, 2011 I lost an argument w/ a Rock the size of a new VW Beetle. Right Shoulder: Cuff, Labrum & long-bicep DESTROYED. Compressed (slight) some T & C vertebrae...

I was wearing the Leatt.

My Dr. as mentioned above had to do a coupl'a surgeries to put me back together.

Now, we are both "Believers".
No way! That Doc doesn't know what he's talking about because he didn't do any research on neck braces.
The douche bag that says he's a nurse clearly states they don't work!!
So why would we believe an orthopedic surgeon.

Anyway, like most people on here I'll continue to wear my neck brace. Which for me is Leatt, although I think they're all good.

But as I said before, if you don't want to wear one don't.
Just don't come on here insinuating we're all stupid because we think they work!
Austin824
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Austin824 11/6/2013 9:28pm
11/6/2013 9:28pm
I honestly think if they made a neck brace it's going to help, if it didn't help why would they make one.
48dirtbikekid
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48dirtbikekid 11/6/2013 10:16pm
11/6/2013 10:16pm
Indy mxer wrote:
No way! That Doc doesn't know what he's talking about because he didn't do any research on neck braces. The douche bag that says he's a...
No way! That Doc doesn't know what he's talking about because he didn't do any research on neck braces.
The douche bag that says he's a nurse clearly states they don't work!!
So why would we believe an orthopedic surgeon.

Anyway, like most people on here I'll continue to wear my neck brace. Which for me is Leatt, although I think they're all good.

But as I said before, if you don't want to wear one don't.
Just don't come on here insinuating we're all stupid because we think they work!
It goes both ways, the people that don't want to wear one are entitled to their opinion as well. A lot of top pros who do this for a living don't wear one, a lot do, all a matter of opinion!
GeorgiePorgie 11/6/2013 10:21pm
11/6/2013 10:21pm
TeamGreen wrote:
I'm 50. I ride in Baja & just rode the Vet Worlds. I pretty much ride all sorts of stuff "in-between". My Wife got me my...
I'm 50.

I ride in Baja & just rode the Vet Worlds. I pretty much ride all sorts of stuff "in-between". My Wife got me my 1st Neck-Device. A Leatt.

Why? She "over-heard" a conversation between me & my rider (Jiri Dostal) on the matter & she went out, on here own, & got me one via TLD's 1st shipment of the big'Ol Grey plastic ones (Still have it!). I opened a box at Christmas and there it was. I sat down w/my BYU educated Ortho-ped and he saw the "Anti-Compression" advantages IMMEDIATELY!

I've been wearing one ever since.

In June, 2011 I lost an argument w/ a Rock the size of a new VW Beetle. Right Shoulder: Cuff, Labrum & long-bicep DESTROYED. Compressed (slight) some T & C vertebrae...

I was wearing the Leatt.

My Dr. as mentioned above had to do a coupl'a surgeries to put me back together.

Now, we are both "Believers".
Indy mxer wrote:
No way! That Doc doesn't know what he's talking about because he didn't do any research on neck braces. The douche bag that says he's a...
No way! That Doc doesn't know what he's talking about because he didn't do any research on neck braces.
The douche bag that says he's a nurse clearly states they don't work!!
So why would we believe an orthopedic surgeon.

Anyway, like most people on here I'll continue to wear my neck brace. Which for me is Leatt, although I think they're all good.

But as I said before, if you don't want to wear one don't.
Just don't come on here insinuating we're all stupid because we think they work!
Aye yi yi. Let me go bash my head into the wall. Me saying I want to see more testing is not me "clearly" saying neck braces don't work.

Scroll up some and read where I said if I had 3rd party testing and it was proven it would help me by 1% I'd buy one tomorrow. If it was proven it would help me by 0.01% I would buy one tomorrow.

You should trust your nurses, they communicate with your doctors. The doctor sees you for what 15 minutes a day or less? We can recognize when things go wrong, it's our job to see this and notify them. Now, as you read that I hope you're NOT taking that as me saying "I recognized the leatt didn't work, you must go take more X-rays, run more tests and do a few surgeries because the leatt clearly doesn't work." Because that is NOT what I said.

My whole point is I can't prove (personally) or see third party testing whether they work or not. However, if you would open up your thought process, that's me also saying they very well could actually work. I don't know how to be more clear on the subject.


I'm done talking about this. Continue if you will but this my nail in the coffin.
Potts
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Potts 11/7/2013 1:26pm
11/7/2013 1:26pm
I've tested my Leatt and survived but my Arai did not! I won't ride without one!

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