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Buying a new 2 stroke is like buying any other niche' product anymore.
I get tired of hearing people talk about what a "great deed" KTM and Yamaha are doing.
In my area they are running supply & demand right up the shops and customers brown eye.
The local KTM shop: Has to buy a bulk of 4 stroke off road bikes just to get a few smokers. The smokers are sold before they are uncrated and the shop eats floor costs on the thumpers because they sit all year.
No chance of getting more smokers till the next year or until the floor bikes are taken care of. Once again in limited quantities and having to buy valve munchers to get a few.
Local Yami shop: Is lucky to get 1 125 & 250 each year. For 800-1K more I can get the 450 all day.
Meanwhile the yz 250 production gets slashed, price gets upped and it has not had a legit update since 2006.
Funny how a 2012 450 is light years ahead in development/R&D hours and cost to build.
Yet is only 4-5 payments more than a bike that has set on the shelf for 6 years with 0 overhead invested.
How many people would walk into a shop and pick a new 06 yz450 over the 12 for less than a grand difference?
Yet people sit around and praise this; unreal.
Beleive me I typed that part about the rmz quietly......lol.
- No premix cost.
- I run Shell Rotalla now which is super cheap and keeps my engine perfect.
- No need to change pistons evey other months unlike the 2 strokes that was loosing power that soon.
- The 2 strokes feel like an old rattling piece of junk after a year where the 4 strokes still feel and pull like new after 2 years.
- How the hell do you justify buying a new "8 years old" YZ250 for almost the same price as a 4 stroke?
Anyway, raced both for years, I'll keep my 4 strokes as far as cost is concerned thank you very much...
Flame on.
You must have a good job. When you're earning what the majority of this country is earning, I think you'd be singing a different tune.
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Free shipping: VITALMX
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
Great way to get someone to hear your message.
You left out;
2012 YZ 125 $6,290.00
Not that I would pay that for a 12 year bike, but hey how 250F's has Yamaha sold with there 13 year old motor in them?
Also, in amateur race mode, every how often are you changing pistons/gaskets on a 2-storkes? reeds? pipes? Maintenance is easier but it ain't cheaper. You don't change top end as much on a 450 4-stroke, unless you are racing AMA Pro or going to LL, which we know is not in the future for 99% of the people on this forum, you included.
Buying a stupid used 2-strokes like others said on this thread, let me laugh out loud because your $1,500 - or even $2,500 - 2-strokes will cost you at least $1,500 before you can be competitively racing B class in your area. And, with a 2-strokes, you never know what the guy has really done with it before and you will surely have a flywheel or/and cranks and/or top end change in the very near future. In the end, you will be very close to $5K with a 5 or 6 year-old used bike, all paid cash, when you could have financed a problem-less 250F or 450F.
Overall there is no drastic difference. Except, of course, for the weekend warriors that only ride practice or just woods, once or twice a month, like most on here.
As far as business and OEM strategies and what the consumer want, you above all should know, if we are where we are today with the 4-strokes, it's because we the consumers made it happen, our demand made the OEM concentrate on the 4-strokes and we embraced it.
Oh, so now we changed our mind (because we're getting old and fat) and decided we don't like blondes, we prefer brunettes? fine, but let' not blame it on others, let's be adult a bit and accept accountablility.
Now I'm older and fat, so I will probably look at a 2-strokes to go trot around the parks on weekend, but if my boys go racing, then there's nothing better, easier to ride, with the best power/weight ration and gnar than those amazing 250F, 350F or the mighty 450F, the Formula 1 of MX race bikes!
Dual Sport
22.821 Units (2010: 19,969). Down 2,852 (-14%)
Off Road
51,057 Units (2010: 60,256). Down 9,199 (-15%)
Street Bikes
269,386 Units (2010: 265,095). Up 4,291 (+1.6%)
Scooter
24,474 Units (2010: 23,432). Up 4,042 (+17%)
Total 367,738 Units (2010: 368,752) Down 1,014 (-1.0%)
The more recent data suggest that banks are financing everything but dirtbikes and dualsport. Streetbikes are up 1.6% and scooters are up 17% Might have more to do with gas prices and not a credit crunch.
C class actually......lol.
And that would describe roughly 60-70% of the motorcycle buying public I would estimate.
Unless you are riding hard and pulling a Barcia with the rev limiter over every jump those bikes are fine.
You're last point is exactly what I was saying in my first post.
After a season of top ends and clutches its going to be close.
What do you guys think a fair price is for the current yz 250 being sold?
For myself, it's always been easier to find a lightly trailridden 125 for under $2k than plop down two or three times that for a bigger bike that I wouldn't be any faster on. Like any bike, Steve47, on a 2 stroke ya gotta change bearings and rod every now and then to keep her from rattlin'....
Those of us that are still doing well feel that things are perfectly in line and in fact they are. Bike prices have risen right along w/ my income, housing, fuel, etc. and have not inflated unreasonably. In fact for the tremendous performance they offer they are quite the bargain.
But a huge number of Americans are slipping out of the middle class making MX pretty unaffordable. This isn't the fault of the Manufacturers, the AMA, or 4 strokes.
and before anyone asks, yes i am a Z class rider ...............well i mite be up to M now!
A clean used 2008 CRF can be had for less than $2500. I saw a damn clean '06 KX450F for $2K, too.
That's as cheap as it get's for the Recreational Track-Day MXer and the tech is as current as you need.
Pump Gas, no oil. Change our engine oil often/change the filter every 3rd oil change (per Honda!). Clutches last FOREVER. Cheap after-mkt parts are EVERYWHERE...notably for the Honda. Add a big tank and you're winning your class at off-road races, too. Keep your valves adjusted and your good. No differnt than a 2T exhaust vlave system...
Reeds, Clutches, 2T oil, Plugs...etc. It ALL costs money, too.
Case closed.
But, you can put your Oil Covered glasses back on and "see it your way". It's what you do.
This is where some of you try to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about: Right.
I ride BOTH.
Pit Row
This is the biggest crock of BS I've heard in a very long time...
FU!
No-one asked for your Logic or Sensibility!
Damn you!
This is an ANTI-EVRYTHING thread!
GO AWAY!
(Kinda like a Occupy Vital thread, if you will)
The whole new bike 4-2 stroke bitch fest nonsense is really a charade for people who want new bikes regardless of whether they "need" it, but can't afford it and feel the need to complain. The industry and consumers got fat on cheap credit.
Bikes have gone up in cost almost every year since I got into the sport in 71. Any new bike is pretty expensive these days regardless of engine type. There's have always been people who could swing it only if they made payments. Lenders say no now.
full top end,
cranks, gears, shock, fork, exhaust.....
That being said, I'm also pretty sure that they were all going slower than I was on my 450.
I like two strokes, and If there were a viable racing structure for two strokes, I would have no hesitation to switch back. If we decided that all +30 classes should be two stroke only, I would jump for joy. Until then, I'll be shimming valves and changing oil, because I can't give up the seconds-per-lap that a two stroke would cost me. Like them or not, four strokes go faster around a track over the course of a moto than two strokes, even for us mortals.
For that matter, why can't the manufacturers and AMA do as was suggested earlier, come up with some sort of technology limited class standard that would make MX accessible?! Something that would still be capable of doing the obstacles but not as expensive to maintain? Woods riders would create a shadow market and boost the sales as well.
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