Did Ping say Suzuki was bringing the 2 stroke back to the US?

TeamGreen
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9/8/2011 12:23pm
In other words, your "fair price" notion doesn't mean crap beyond setting a price you won't pay. They'll charge what they can get and not sell...
In other words, your "fair price" notion doesn't mean crap beyond setting a price you won't pay.

They'll charge what they can get and not sell them if they can't. Maybe that'll be less or more than what you think is "fair." But a bike imported from Japan that cost $6k at 2008 yen/dollar rates would be over $8k at today's exchange rate.
Bingo
TeamGreen
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9/8/2011 12:26pm
Re-issue = $7k-ish

Re-chassis = $8k-ish
APLMAN99
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9/8/2011 12:53pm
In other words, your "fair price" notion doesn't mean crap beyond setting a price you won't pay. They'll charge what they can get and not sell...
In other words, your "fair price" notion doesn't mean crap beyond setting a price you won't pay.

They'll charge what they can get and not sell them if they can't. Maybe that'll be less or more than what you think is "fair." But a bike imported from Japan that cost $6k at 2008 yen/dollar rates would be over $8k at today's exchange rate.
There you go. So the YZ250F should cost $8k instead of what it does, $7,150.00 Inflation exchange rate, obviously is not what the price is set...
There you go. So the YZ250F should cost $8k instead of what it does, $7,150.00 Inflation exchange rate, obviously is not what the price is set. It is cost vs profit and demand. Saying they will set the price they can get. That is only half right as you should have added that final part in. Depends on how many they want to send. Example: 100 at $7000 or 300 at $6000. But in that scenario, the $6,000 makes them more. Right? Wrong. They have to include the part that it may deplete sales from another line. So it all has to be worked out, together. It isn't as simple as you state. You sound like you know some economics. But when there are two competing products from the same company, things get alittle complicated.
What would make you think that selling 300 @ $6000 would "make them more"?

That's an impossible assumption without having any clue on costs.

The idea that the price of any of the bikes is "artificial" is also silly.
MXD
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9/8/2011 12:54pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Re-issue = $7k-ish

Re-chassis = $8k-ish
WAY OFF! There is no way they would sell a "re-chassis" machine for the same price as a RMZ450 - $8150 for 2011. A re chassis machine for just over 7K, I would believe that.

The Shop

9/8/2011 1:00pm
In other words, your "fair price" notion doesn't mean crap beyond setting a price you won't pay. They'll charge what they can get and not sell...
In other words, your "fair price" notion doesn't mean crap beyond setting a price you won't pay.

They'll charge what they can get and not sell them if they can't. Maybe that'll be less or more than what you think is "fair." But a bike imported from Japan that cost $6k at 2008 yen/dollar rates would be over $8k at today's exchange rate.
There you go. So the YZ250F should cost $8k instead of what it does, $7,150.00 Inflation exchange rate, obviously is not what the price is set...
There you go. So the YZ250F should cost $8k instead of what it does, $7,150.00 Inflation exchange rate, obviously is not what the price is set. It is cost vs profit and demand. Saying they will set the price they can get. That is only half right as you should have added that final part in. Depends on how many they want to send. Example: 100 at $7000 or 300 at $6000. But in that scenario, the $6,000 makes them more. Right? Wrong. They have to include the part that it may deplete sales from another line. So it all has to be worked out, together. It isn't as simple as you state. You sound like you know some economics. But when there are two competing products from the same company, things get alittle complicated.
APLMAN99 wrote:
What would make you think that selling 300 @ $6000 would "make them more"? That's an impossible assumption without having any clue on costs. The idea...
What would make you think that selling 300 @ $6000 would "make them more"?

That's an impossible assumption without having any clue on costs.

The idea that the price of any of the bikes is "artificial" is also silly.
Seriously? Make up any profit number $501 or over for the $6000 bike and show me what you mean?
APLMAN99
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9/8/2011 1:09pm
Seriously? Make up any profit number $501 or over for the $6000 bike and show me what you mean?
That's the key phrase, "make up"......
9/8/2011 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 1:30pm
Seriously? Make up any profit number $501 or over for the $6000 bike and show me what you mean?
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's the key phrase, "make up"......
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes more profit. That is just a fact at 3 times sales. Again, this is an example. But in this case, you have to include the fact that it will cut into RMZ250 sales. Jeesh, sometimes, I just shake my head here.
mxb2
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9/8/2011 1:22pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 1:58pm
Has anyone actually contacted a suzuki dealer in the states for some facts?
mxtech1
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9/8/2011 1:22pm
Why are you guys all trying to be economists?? Suzuki probably employs hundreds of people that sit and analyze data trends, inflation, market values, and economic conditions so they know how to price vehicles.

It's not complicated. The price of the bikes will be similiar to KTM and Yamaha. Even if they only update cosmetically the price is still going to be on par with KTM and Yamaha. If they redisign the bike, then the bike will be towards the higher end of this price gap. If you think they would ever MSRP them for the 2008 value MSRP, ha! Why on earth would they sell a product for cheaper when they know they can get a higher MSRP? They wouldn't. It's called maximizing profit.

The RM 250 05+ bikes paid for themselves and the R&D $$ to go along with. This is one reason why it was so easy for them to cut back sales. Companies like suzuki spend so much money, time, and R&D on their new four strokes that they have to push those 4 stroke lines to start bringing maximum revenue to cover their defecits.

I'm all for it thought. If they released a 2012 RM250 I would be pre-ordering one ASAP.
500guy
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9/8/2011 1:24pm
Seriously? Make up any profit number $501 or over for the $6000 bike and show me what you mean?
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's the key phrase, "make up"......
Welcome to the 2 stroke taliban hit list
9/8/2011 1:25pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 1:30pm
mxtech1 wrote:
Why are you guys all trying to be economists?? Suzuki probably employs hundreds of people that sit and analyze data trends, inflation, market values, and economic...
Why are you guys all trying to be economists?? Suzuki probably employs hundreds of people that sit and analyze data trends, inflation, market values, and economic conditions so they know how to price vehicles.

It's not complicated. The price of the bikes will be similiar to KTM and Yamaha. Even if they only update cosmetically the price is still going to be on par with KTM and Yamaha. If they redisign the bike, then the bike will be towards the higher end of this price gap. If you think they would ever MSRP them for the 2008 value MSRP, ha! Why on earth would they sell a product for cheaper when they know they can get a higher MSRP? They wouldn't. It's called maximizing profit.

The RM 250 05+ bikes paid for themselves and the R&D $$ to go along with. This is one reason why it was so easy for them to cut back sales. Companies like suzuki spend so much money, time, and R&D on their new four strokes that they have to push those 4 stroke lines to start bringing maximum revenue to cover their defecits.

I'm all for it thought. If they released a 2012 RM250 I would be pre-ordering one ASAP.
Well, I think the reason people like me are speaking of price, is because across the water, they do sell for similar to 2008 prices. The reason their cost is down, to build them, is due to the fact they are being built in Brazil, not Japan. So thus, Suzuki can make a choice either way.
APLMAN99
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9/8/2011 1:41pm
Seriously? Make up any profit number $501 or over for the $6000 bike and show me what you mean?
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's the key phrase, "make up"......
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes...
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes more profit. That is just a fact at 3 times sales. Again, this is an example. But in this case, you have to include the fact that it will cut into RMZ250 sales. Jeesh, sometimes, I just shake my head here.
Yes, it is completely made up and worthless. That's why you tried to later qualify it with a minimum profit threshold.

That's part of what makes your questioning FTE's economics acumen so ironic........

And no, selling 3 times the product doesn't guarantee making more in profit. Most of us who've been in business know that first hand.
burn1986
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9/8/2011 1:57pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 1:57pm
inflation calculator from 08 to 11 would bring it to 6399 from this website http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=6099&year1=2008&year2=2011

no idea if thats accurate
Well, not to back up, but the 2008 RM250 was listed on the Suzukicycles.com website last year for $6,099. If you clicked to buy one, then they contacted a dealer closest to you and sent you an email. The dealers were sold out of them of course, but there was no inflation on these since they were a 2008 model.

I know you're asking about a 2012 model, but I think everyone knows that there is no reputable evidence of any Japanese company, other than Yamaha that has any desire or ambition to ever produce another 2-stroke for the United States. In fact, I bet Yamaha will soon discontinue the YZs. Sure, it would be nice, and they would sell out immediately for several years (regardless of the price), but it will never happen. I realize this may be harsh, but Honda has stated over and over that 2-stroke it never wanted 2-strokes, but only made them because they didn't want to get beat in the Nats. Suzuki quit making a large bore 2-stroke after 1984 and refused to make one since. Yamaha followed suit in 1992. They held on with their antiquated YZ490 and eventually discontinued it.

IMO 2-strokes will only come from Europe. The Japs will cut their dirt bikes before they produce a 2-stroke (and severely punish the AMA if they try to change the rules for them).
Propaganda!
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9/8/2011 2:09pm
500guy wrote:
[img]http://a5.mzstatic.com/us/r1000/010/Purple/2b/2f/69/mzl.grjgscao.320x480-75.jpg[/img]
Don't be angry at him....

Very few of us know each other's situation. Even here in Jersey where the recession has been considerably less impactful compared to other regions of the country, people are hurting.

Lots of Honda Motorcycle dealers are on the ropes around here. Powersport Honda, which was one of those "Everything Honda" dealerships with a HUGE showroom displaying every single Bike and ATV Honda made, is now in a different building about 1/10th the size, because they aren't selling much.

Also, Hanover Power Sports which was another of the big Honda Dealerships around here just moved a few doors down the highway. They went from having a large showroom (1000 Square Feet +) full of offroad bikes back before the industry tried it's Fooper scheme, to having an offroad showroom the size of a single room at Holiday Inn Express. And what was really comical last time I was there was that most of that room they had was taken up by 3 Dusty CRF150's, one of them from 2008.... and 4 Dust Gathering 250 SXF's that weren't going anywhere very soon from what it looked like....

If I was a Honda Dealer right now, or any poor seller locked into a 100% BLUMPER showroom.... Or if I was someone who even worked at one of those places and was hoping to keep my job... I'd act a lot like 500 Guy.

He's not having a flare because someone said their 2 stroke was better, or faster, or lighter... He's flaring this time just because people think that a line of bikes they want to buy may become available here agaiin after being absent for a long time.

The only reason to be upset about Suzuki Re-Introducing the RM's here is if you're somehow personally invested in the Fooper's market share.

If I worked at "Powersport Honda", I might feel like this "RM's back in the USA" thing was not good, especially with so many of our Big Red Foopers sitting around.

For anyone who doesn't need to HOPE HOPE HOPE the new Foopers sell.... This is either no big deal to you, like you won't even notice, OR IT'S VERY COOL NEWS!!!
9/8/2011 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 2:28pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
That's the key phrase, "make up"......
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes...
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes more profit. That is just a fact at 3 times sales. Again, this is an example. But in this case, you have to include the fact that it will cut into RMZ250 sales. Jeesh, sometimes, I just shake my head here.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Yes, it is completely made up and worthless. That's why you tried to later qualify it with a minimum profit threshold. That's part of what makes...
Yes, it is completely made up and worthless. That's why you tried to later qualify it with a minimum profit threshold.

That's part of what makes your questioning FTE's economics acumen so ironic........

And no, selling 3 times the product doesn't guarantee making more in profit. Most of us who've been in business know that first hand.
I seriously believe you have no clue about profit margins on motocross bikes from OEM's. It is a fact that at 3 times sales from a $6,000 RM250 and $7000 price, that Suzuki will profit more on the RM250. Leaving out anything about RMZ's profit or loss from this. Of course, if you are selling a $2 item selling 3 times doesn't make you more profit necessarily. We are talking about Motocross bikes. So not only are you wrong. Never mind. Suzuki does exactly what I just did and makes numbers up, to figure out what would make them money, if they shipped RM's over. Why? Because like you, me, and everyone else, they have no F'ing clue exactly how many will sell, and what affect it will have on sales of the 4 strokes. I'm done. Go ahead post your dumb ass response.

By the way 500guy. Welcome to the dumbass list, if you wanna argue that 3 times sales won't bring more profit on an RM in the scenario given. When the RM hits US land, your avatar officially becomes "Fail." Not: "dead or not coming back." Like you've posted so many times. Funny how all you guys make fun of me, but I keep on showing you I'm right as time passes.
Lightning78
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9/8/2011 2:35pm
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH SOME OF YOU?!?! Yes ping did say Suzuki is going to start importing RM 2 strokes again and I'm assuning offer a 144 kit for the 125 or Athena or Eric gorr which is the best choice I for one am "super pumped" to know this ...... Now people are getting what they want, arguably the BEST 250 2 stroke ever produced......and now all of a sudden everyone starts to piss and moan about price? I swear some of you would complain if they Hung you with a new rope geezus!

I was parked next to don maeda from transworld he saw my 06 rm250 walked over and flat out told me that was the best 250 2 stroke ever made even after they tested the 12 ktm250sx he said the RM was still a little better.....we should be THANKFUL Suzuki decided to start importing them again not crying about it .... I will ride them forever as imo they are the best bikes I've ever ridden. Guess my numerous calls to their marketing dept might have made a difference I have called them numerous time telling them they would sell out each and every year if they started importing them again and refered them to vital and had them look up all the 2 stroke threads to see how many people would love to have the option to buy them again.

Since Travis claimed to have bought out all the old stock of them hearing ping say that was the best news UBS heard all year and he said it came from someone that would know
Arkmx
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9/8/2011 2:58pm
Another great article from MXA.?

Why does MXA harp on two-strokes when Yamaha is the only Japanese manufacturer to make them?

Dear MXA,
MXA is the only magazine that even wastes time and space to test two-strokes anymore. Isn’t it obvious that the motorcycle manufacturers don’t make them anymore. Yamaha is the only Japanese two-stroke left. Give it up!

MXA is not telling you what to buy and we aren’t anti-four-stroke. We just want to see affordable motorcycles offered to the public (not to mention bikes that can be fixed in a garage by its owner for about one-fourth the cost of a four-stroke rebuild). If you don’t want a two-stroke, or have some schizoid fear of them, don’t buy one…but the motorcycle industry is rapidly pricing itself out of the budgets of the people who made this sport popular in the first place. And the costs aren’t just the initial investment in the machine, but also its upkeep, labor costs and parts bill. We test every bike made and you don’t have to be a high school graduate to see that the number of four-stroke tests and articles in MXA far outweigh the number of two-stroke stories. The interplay between the two types of engines seems to set people’s nerves on end…and they want to defend their $9000 purchase by trying to stop people from buying the other type.



The 2011 Suzuki RM250 sells for 2000 British Pounds less than the RM-Z450 in England. That is $3146 less.

Additionally, Yamaha is not the only manufacturer to still make two-strokes. Suzuki still manufactures the RM125 and RM250—but U.S. Suzuki does not import them. We have included pages from Suzuki of Great Britain showing that they sell the bikes. You can go to www.suzuki-gb.co.uk to see for yourself.

Also, Italian manufacturer TM and British-brand Maico have new American importers. And, you conveniently forgot KTM, who sells more two-strokes than any other manufacturer and might well be on its way to being the number one selling brand for offroad motorcycles in the near future.

At 4288 British Pounds, the 2011 RM250 is a bargain over the 6331 pound RM-Z250. The RM125 costs $3313 less than the 250 four-stroke in Great Britain.




Link to Suzuki RM's in Great Britain... Suzuki - UK
Crush
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9/8/2011 4:23pm
They haven't stopped em down here so I would assume it's not a rumour
jndmx
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9/8/2011 5:20pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 5:22pm
Crush wrote:
They haven't stopped em down here so I would assume it's not a rumour
Yeah I don't think they ever stopped making them just stopped importing them into the US.

I have seen the RM125 offered overseas every year after they stopped being sold here.
Spergen
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9/8/2011 5:26pm
Why would they export them all over the world but not to the no1 consumer of off road bikes ? (USA) dont think they ever stopped selling them here in the UK
Wadded_Up
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9/8/2011 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/8/2011 5:56pm
A 2012 RM250 for $6,000.00 is a sales dream for the dealers..........It will never happen and if it did and supply got low, the stealers would boost up the price anyway. I love going to a dealership and hearing from the sales person how rare a certain product is and they can get well over list price, plus setup, fee's etc. They can eat shit now, I don't know how many times I heard that shit from a salesman. I'm sure there are a few people on here who can see both sides. I've been on the other side far to many times. IMHO, the dealerships would find a way to screw it up anyway. Then they will bitch about no profit on MX bikes anyway (parts....duh). Those motor scooters really sell lots of parts huh......
Spergen
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9/8/2011 5:51pm
MXD wrote:
I don't know if he was joking or not but he mentioned on the BTO Steel City podcast that Suzuki was going to start importing the...
I don't know if he was joking or not but he mentioned on the BTO Steel City podcast that Suzuki was going to start importing the 2 strokes again. Was he serious or is the joke on me?
Dsigner wrote:
If I had a dollar for ever time I heard this rumor, I could develop my own 2012 RM-250.
You mean like this !



Wadded_Up
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9/8/2011 5:58pm
Is that a Hondsuki?
gsxr6
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9/8/2011 6:01pm
we (the usa) were the only ones stupid enough to really take the bait. now people are so broke bikes are out of reach. hence 1000s of leftover bikes each year. again the four stroke mx bikes have an excellent core fan/buyer base. the 4t will be just fine. i myself will never buy one got kids to feed and still insist on being able to ride. the 450s are amazing to ride no doubt. im too fat for a 250f they feel really slow to me. however the smile i get on my face whenever i smash past a buddy on a 450 is awesome. i feel like a 250 two stroke well built is about 5 or so percent more than i can really handle. which is perfect for fun. yes the 450s passed me like i was standing still on raceday no doubt. but gosh my 250 two stroke is fun.
reded
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9/8/2011 6:05pm
Spergen wrote:
You mean like this ! [IMG]http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/spergen/228746_10150183161184151_663429150_7038332_3475589_n.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/spergen/222309_10150183161889151_663429150_7038335_6717183_n.jpg[/IMG]
You mean like this !



(I ask this question much like a 15yr old boy asks how it is to get laid for the first time)

Sooooooooo, how is it?
Spergen
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9/8/2011 6:33pm
Spergen wrote:
You mean like this ! [IMG]http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/spergen/228746_10150183161184151_663429150_7038332_3475589_n.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x374/spergen/222309_10150183161889151_663429150_7038335_6717183_n.jpg[/IMG]
You mean like this !



reded wrote:
(I ask this question much like a 15yr old boy asks how it is to get laid for the first time)

Sooooooooo, how is it?
I have no idea its a friend of a friends bike and took the pics off facebook, from his comments he loves it to bits. took alot of doing though.
MXD
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9/8/2011 6:47pm
I understand that its cool to have the latest and greatest in technology but to me, part of the appeal of the RM 2 strokes is the old school steel frame.
Tiki
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9/8/2011 7:15pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Re-issue = $7k-ish

Re-chassis = $8k-ish
And California-ish = 0
CR250Rider
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9/8/2011 8:28pm
it's dead wrong to think they wouldn't sell good here in the USA
APLMAN99
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9/9/2011 6:44am
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes...
WTF? It was a made up example. LMFAO. They don't sell 100 or 300 units. In my "example" It shows how more product being sold makes more profit. That is just a fact at 3 times sales. Again, this is an example. But in this case, you have to include the fact that it will cut into RMZ250 sales. Jeesh, sometimes, I just shake my head here.
APLMAN99 wrote:
Yes, it is completely made up and worthless. That's why you tried to later qualify it with a minimum profit threshold. That's part of what makes...
Yes, it is completely made up and worthless. That's why you tried to later qualify it with a minimum profit threshold.

That's part of what makes your questioning FTE's economics acumen so ironic........

And no, selling 3 times the product doesn't guarantee making more in profit. Most of us who've been in business know that first hand.
I seriously believe you have no clue about profit margins on motocross bikes from OEM's. It is a fact that at 3 times sales from a...
I seriously believe you have no clue about profit margins on motocross bikes from OEM's. It is a fact that at 3 times sales from a $6,000 RM250 and $7000 price, that Suzuki will profit more on the RM250. Leaving out anything about RMZ's profit or loss from this. Of course, if you are selling a $2 item selling 3 times doesn't make you more profit necessarily. We are talking about Motocross bikes. So not only are you wrong. Never mind. Suzuki does exactly what I just did and makes numbers up, to figure out what would make them money, if they shipped RM's over. Why? Because like you, me, and everyone else, they have no F'ing clue exactly how many will sell, and what affect it will have on sales of the 4 strokes. I'm done. Go ahead post your dumb ass response.

By the way 500guy. Welcome to the dumbass list, if you wanna argue that 3 times sales won't bring more profit on an RM in the scenario given. When the RM hits US land, your avatar officially becomes "Fail." Not: "dead or not coming back." Like you've posted so many times. Funny how all you guys make fun of me, but I keep on showing you I'm right as time passes.
It's hard to decide where to start with your silliness.....

Just the fact that you believe Suzuki simply blindly makes numbers up to decide on the number of bikes to build and ship says plenty. Obviously you've not been involved in any major commerce, or you'd understand the data gathering and interpreting concepts that go into production decisions. It's clear, however, that it is completely foreign to you.

Just out of curiosity, do you truly believe you'd triple your sales of forslyk if you dropped the price by 15%? If so, why haven't you? Obviously you'd make a lot more money selling it at $30 than you have at $50, so what's the hold up?

Oh yeah, not even you believes your crap..........

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