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So the only way to make a decent living in this country is to go into debt? Plumbers struggle with student loans? My son-law is an electrician, he doesn't have that problem, maybe it's because I was allegedly born rich?
Sure, why not? It's a great job.
Let me ask the following in an adult, serious and hopefully reasonable sounding tone….
I’ll stipulate the idea of education as an investment in our society.
But, who’s setting the price of that investment and the unrealistic “value” of it. I literally have NO INTEREST in paying for student loans at Princeton, Harvard or Cornell prices. I honestly believe those institutions have scaled the price of their degrees…their contribution to our society…
To a price that’s not reasonable.
Also, I’m not seeing the value of my money going to the UC system…nor places that are teaching 18th Century French Art History.
So, all of that brings me back to “who” are we paying for and what was the value of their education? And, again, I didn’t sign these contracts for these loans. That’s really the point here.
I’m not happy with the idea of you paying someone else’s debts. Doesn’t matter if it’s the ridiculous bail outs of the financial institution that shit the bed 15 years ago or these ridiculous strident loans that have been allowed to escalate to insane levels…
There’s a lot more to be said for that money staying with you and your family for your own future contributions to our society.
This is where I’m coming from & hopefully it doesn’t read like something that comes from any sort of political thought process; because, it doesn’t. It comes from one family man to another.
Perhaps your insistence of me being wealthy at youth has nothing to do with confiscating anything. But it certainly displays a bitterness, and resentment of people better off than yourself and a lack of belief people can improve their lot in life without help. Obviously, you believe, there is no way my kids could get academic scholarships unless I was born wealthy. Kind of a stretch, but it displays a mindset.
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Please tell me how your son in law became an electrician
He did go to school, but paid his way through, it wasn't expensive or long. His journeymen's is earned through his employer. Honestly, it is a great job.
These are all good, decent questions and would need to be considered before any meaningful decisions or changes should be made.
Whether or not private education is included is a very good question, but as stated most of the need to attend those schools is covered by the institution itself. Those universities only really receive anywhere close to the full tuition from the very wealthy who attend.
I may disagree with your view that the UC system isn't worth it, but that's a matter of perspective I suppose. My son is a mathematician, and the UC system is probably the top 'system' of schools in the world when it comes to that field. They may have some areas that seem like fluff, but a lot of the time we (including me) think that because we really don't have an interest in them, and we don't completely understand how there could be that much to learn about those fields. I am guilty of that, I am sure.
The "18th Century French Art History" part is something that I think applies to that point as well. I have no interest in learning about that in depth, but I have taken similar classes and feel like it has helped me look at things differently than I might have otherwise. Some of my favorite (and most thought provoking/changing) classes had nothing to do with my major but were huge in my overall development as a person. I wouldn't have wanted to major in Philosophy, but I use things that I learned in my Philosophy of Religion class almost daily. Same with Anthropology classes. And there is a need to preserve those lines of study, even though they may not make the degree holders wealthy the same way that a degree from Harvard Law has the potential to.
So I can't say that I have a hard and fast idea of what I would like to see as far as changes to the availability of higher education, but I would definitely like to see it improved and cost less. And yes, that includes making it overall cost less than it currently does. Just not sure how to get there!
youre so damn condescending. Let me make this very clear, I could not care less how your kids got to where they are today. The only thing I have any interest in, is what you consider to be poor, because you thought Bezos grew up poor.
This is not a gotcha moment where I hope you say the wrong thing so I can show how your kids had an advantage over less fortunate, because you had more opportunities than you are implying that you had.
So, were your parents 25,000 acres poor, or skipping meals poor. There is wide range on what people consider to be poor.
Do you require tax returns? I will say this, today my day is being spent hauling and spreading gravel. Something that appears beneath most people here who are implying non-college jobs are beneath civilized people. I didn't even trade school to do this. Do you think I had rich parents buy my truck? Bet you do, it's the only way you think somebody can get ahead isn't it.
Honestly no condescension or offense intended. My apologies, just observations of the dialogue.
Maybe I am wrong about Bezos, I thought he was born to a 17yr old unwed mother?
All good brother, have a great day.
Poor is just an interesting topic to me, as I stated, everyones definition is different, so I wanted to hear yours.
FWIW, I don't think having daddy's money is the only way to get ahead in life, but I do believe it makes it easier for those with the right mindset. Rich parents can either produce rich kids, or fuck ups that never learn how to work. Much in the same way that someone who grew up poor can better their life, or get stuck in a "im destined to be poor" mindset.
Had an acholic father that the mother left, and she got remarried.
His mothers parents appeared to have wealth (the 25,000 acres) and loaned him $300K
Did Ok with 300k.
300K to 153 billion is alright, somewhat disappointing, maybe he will do more in his next life
Trade school material?
300B plumbing company
We need to make sure we tell every lower income child that if they aren’t fortunate enough to be one of the select few to get a scholarship, they need to go into the trades or another job that requires no degree. That would make society much better.
Pit Row
Well like I wrote before, we'll just have to call BS on your posts. Because everything so far has been just that. The posts all seem to be interjected with "hey look at me, I did it" "hey look at me, I'll take a bullet" "hey look at me, I pay kids" but in real life you supported your kids and paid their way so they don't have any debt and want to claim others have the same advantage. And I can say emphatically you never told your son or daughter to be a plumber. I know a lot of kids that were VERY smart with university intentions. Their study and projects consumed a lot of time, pair that with athletic involvement, again time consuming. Here anyway, it's unlikely if not happening at all that you won't get on varsity if you're not in club sports during the rest of the year, or a complimentary sport. IE: waterpolo needs to be in swim in the off season. So your claims that your kids had a job, very suspect. I don't count working for you a "real job" as you would cater their hours to around scholastic requirements, not what real jobs do, be here or get fired. Also, even something as simple as proper meals. But the fact that you don't realize the country needs stem degreed kids means your opinion should not be considered. There's a lot of people here that did very well without degrees, that's not the issue, You just don't seem to get it. And your poor people should just accept anything "that isn't difficult" is just short sighted and archaic. But I get it, nobody gave you a yacht.
Cheers, TM
You make a lot of assumptions friend.
Well brother, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
Cheers, TM
Stanford is now going to offer a class to study Taylor Swift. I guess that will help people with their "overall development as a person"?
There’s more, of course. Jeffs said:
BRB, signing up for college.
Anyone here willing to pay my debt if my career as a T Swift historian doesnt work out?
Taylor Swift…”English Class”…songwriting…must be some amazing contributions to the literary arts at Stanford.
Stanford’s recent fail with a circuit court judge’s guest speaking event was a real eye opening look into how there’s no decorum in the modern university setting.
I remember when we were pursuing the finer details to The Standard Model at SLAC. Damn, how things change.
If I ran into you at the track, I'd bring you over a beer, just cause I felt sorry for ya.
Any help is appreciated - God bless
Sounds like it could be interesting, although nothing that I would have taken if I were a student. I don't know much about Taylor Swift other than she is a pop star and my wife and daughter's thought it would be fun to go to her first show of her tour in Phoenix.
Again, this is a good example of making an assumption of a class without really having any knowledge of what it will actually be, or whether or not we feel the subject is 'worthy' because we don't have that interest. It could be a dud of a class, or it could be fantastic if done correctly. As I said, it probably isn't something that I would take but I definitely was a bit jealous of my son when he took a History of Folk Music class on the way to his math degree!!!!
C'mon, Manny. Do you think that this class is somehow affecting the scientific work at the SLAC? That's a non sequitur at best!
I take it you don't like Biden's programs...or him as a person. It's worth reiterating some of the good he has done...as well as the other Demacratic presidents, in comparison to ALL of Republican presidents in the last 3 decades.
I'll start with jobs created and the national deficit in relation to the GDP.
The US economy added 339 thousand jobs in May of this year, well over the 195 thousand that were expected. The US has had 29 consecutive months of jobs growth, starting with Biden’s first month in office; he has presided over the creation of 13.1 million jobs in just over 2 years, more jobs that have ever been added during any presidential term, even in 4 years. But he’s not the only democratic president to have presided over a strong economy. Of the 49 million jobs created since 1989, 96% have been created under democratic presidents. That’s 47 million jobs added under democratic presidents and 1.9 million added under republican presidents. Biden alone has created almost 7 times as many jobs as the last 3 republican presidents combined. Not Great for a political party that’s branded themselves as the party of jobs, jobs, jobs! George H. W. Bush started his presidency with an unemployment rate of 5.4%; he left the office with the rate at 7.3%. Clinton brought the unemployment rate back down to 4.2%. George W. Bush brought the unemployment rate back up to 7.8%. Obama left his office with the unemployment rate at 4.7%. Trump brought it back up to 6.3%. When Biden came into office the unemployment rate was headed upwards at 6.4%, 30 months later it’s at 3.6%....are you starting to see a trend? Here is a visual.
Republicans have allowed the unemployment rate to rise under their watch while simultaneously allowing the deficit as a percentage of the GDP to surge; every single republican president of the last 3 decades has watched this deficit increase and every democratic president of the last 3 decades has watched it decrease. In fact, during Trump’s term, all of those fiscally responsible republicans voted unanimously to add 7.8 trillion dollars to the debt to give themselves a tax cut. A quarter of ALL the US debt was accrued under Donald Trump himself; so, this idea that republicans are fiscally responsible might be a nice branding for them, but it’s undermined by every single factual economic metric that exists.
Don't compare Biden to the almighty, compare him to the alternative(s).
I took a history of rock and roll and history of motion pictures classes as general education requirements when I was in college. They were easy BS classes but I did learn a few things from them from some really good teachers who were very knowledgeable and passionate about the subjects.
Sure there's lots of BS degrees, but you don't want to throw away the whole lot. You want your engineers, scientists, medical workers, computer nerds, and teachers to have a well rounded knowledge about their fields.
For those of you that didn't go to college, there's alot more to learn than what you hear on Joe Rogan.
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