How bad was the Cannondale MX400 really ?

GTM
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Amherstburg Ontario CA
7/13/2023 6:19am
ge217 wrote:
Reliability wise, absolutely terrible, specially electronics.  With the Ohlins suspension stock on it though, handled pretty well for that big of a bike during that time...

Reliability wise, absolutely terrible, specially electronics.  With the Ohlins suspension stock on it though, handled pretty well for that big of a bike during that time. Had really explosive power. Only bike I ever jumped over the gate (before it drop) on. I had a dealer bike, once I started having issues with it just shutting off, Cannondale asked for it back, shortly after they went under.

The prototypes are in the museum at Barber Motorsports. They have wires going everywhere.

20220511 100129

 Barber .... 

2
ge217
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Vero Beach, FL US
7/13/2023 8:59am
ge217 wrote:
Reliability wise, absolutely terrible, specially electronics.  With the Ohlins suspension stock on it though, handled pretty well for that big of a bike during that time...

Reliability wise, absolutely terrible, specially electronics.  With the Ohlins suspension stock on it though, handled pretty well for that big of a bike during that time. Had really explosive power. Only bike I ever jumped over the gate (before it drop) on. I had a dealer bike, once I started having issues with it just shutting off, Cannondale asked for it back, shortly after they went under.

The prototypes are in the museum at Barber Motorsports. They have wires going everywhere.

GTM wrote:
 Barber .... 

20220511 100129

 Barber .... 

Barber is one cool place.The amount of stuff there is unreal! For the people who have never been, put it on your bucket list.

In the library they have a book for everything they have in the museum. Also have the machine shop to make any part they need to complete something. It’s been a good while since I’ve been there, 2008 or so. They had bought everything from Cannondale in an auction when they went under. They had a few Cannondale bikes when I was there last.

 

2
Crossup
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7/13/2023 11:21am

People that I know that worked on the project said that the engine budget was $10 million and the chassis budget was another $10M. The engine was under powered by the time they got it to market. That's why they started to make a 4 wheeler version.

Banana_oil
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Gothenburg SE
7/13/2023 1:40pm
ge217 wrote:
Reliability wise, absolutely terrible, specially electronics.  With the Ohlins suspension stock on it though, handled pretty well for that big of a bike during that time...

Reliability wise, absolutely terrible, specially electronics.  With the Ohlins suspension stock on it though, handled pretty well for that big of a bike during that time. Had really explosive power. Only bike I ever jumped over the gate (before it drop) on. I had a dealer bike, once I started having issues with it just shutting off, Cannondale asked for it back, shortly after they went under.

The prototypes are in the museum at Barber Motorsports. They have wires going everywhere.

GTM wrote:
 Barber .... 

20220511 100129

 Barber .... 

That chimney!!

The Shop

Pop Shmoke
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7/13/2023 8:27pm

It would have been really cool if an american company had succeeded in breaking in to the us dirt bike market. I really wonder how much more support the racing series/tracks, local tracks.. etc could have gotten if there was an american company with factories/workers/jobs to lobby for the industry.
 

Cannondale was/is a really innovative company that makes some of the best bicycles. Unfortunately they tried to innovate on literally everything at once when breaking in to a new market, which basically never works. If they had went for a more conventional motorcycle who knows maybe they could have been like ktm and had a slow build over time. I feel like cannondales very public and very spectacular failure scared away other potential us companies who could have tried to enter the market as well.
 

With ducati, triumph, and beta all entering the market at once theres probably not any room for any more manufacturers, hell one may even need to go (suzuki? Hope not) but it would still be as cool today to get a us manufacturer. I guess with the alta and harley it would have technically counted, but that didnt work either.
 

I wonder if cobra ever ponders building an 85cc and 125cc? Sure they have their niche, but with yamaha releasing a new 65 recently, plus ktm putting out husky and gasgas 50s theyre probably losing a lot of market share. If they want to grow as a company theyll need to do something, but I dont really see them putting out big bikes. 

Dave v3.0
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Ozark, AL US
7/13/2023 8:42pm

Watched Robbie Reynard destroy the field at the 4 Stroke National held at Cycle Ranch in the early 2000's on one of those. 

Until the engine ventilated itself.  In both motos.

I'm sure Robert Reynard was not amused.

1
PFitzG38
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Newport Beach, CA US
7/16/2023 8:01am
I don’t have a utube page to many ads would love to try a Cannondale tho saw one once leaned up against a tree in what...

I don’t have a utube page to many ads would love to try a Cannondale tho saw one once leaned up against a tree in what I believe to be some farmers place out kind of near lewiston area on a dual sport ride years ago you could ride for miles and miles and not see a soul on those old farm roads my buddy and I just had to stop and take a look no one bee came out but we weren’t there long basically just had to confirm  that our eyes weren’t deceiving us it had a eerie aura about it almost like seeing a serial killer in public or something it’s a shame we never got to see the bikes true potential and they folded so fast I would bet that eventually after 10 years or so they could have got their stuff together but guess we will never know kind of like Alta they say electric is the future sure if you live in a suburb and only ride at the motocross track but now you can’t even use a generator in California so how are you supposed to charge the thing between rides probably have to buy a second very expensive battery it reminds me of the pharmaceutical companies they want 3000 dollars for a month of my wife’s medicine without insurance how is anyone supposed to even pay that… anyways thanks for posting the video man I just can’t get with the utube thing but this one I may have to make an exception and watch the ads

Ride on!
BB #975 

Farmer J wrote:

Thats why you download ad blocker browser and you get zero ads. Same as YouTube premium. 

And then sideload SmartTube for your android / firestick streaming device and no mo ads ever

PFitzG38
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7/16/2023 8:08am
Ramrod wrote:

Better for Cannondale to try and fail than to not try at all...

Definitely……or not!

7/16/2023 8:11am Edited Date/Time 7/16/2023 8:14am

I was out for a desert ride in Plaster City back in 2001 the first time I saw a Cannondale in person. The guy unloaded it, put on his gear, started the bike and rode it no more than 200 feet before it quit. I watched him push it back to his truck, motor dripping oil, loaded it back up and he left.

Some guy raced a Cannondale at Day in the Dirt back in 2010ish (when it was at Pala). The bike was leaking oil the entire time we were waiting in the staging area to practice starts.

1
7/16/2023 2:12pm
BBA wrote:
I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of...

I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of the technology on it.  The owner said it was the biggest pos he had ever owned. I never did see him actually out on the track with it though. Not long after that MXA hit the newsstands with their article warning everyone just how bad the bike was, and the rest is history. I wouldn't mind having one now just to tinker with. 

Concerning MXA warning everyone how bad it was What magazine had it as the bike of the year?

1
7/16/2023 3:45pm
BBA wrote:
I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of...

I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of the technology on it.  The owner said it was the biggest pos he had ever owned. I never did see him actually out on the track with it though. Not long after that MXA hit the newsstands with their article warning everyone just how bad the bike was, and the rest is history. I wouldn't mind having one now just to tinker with. 

Maicoman07 wrote:

Concerning MXA warning everyone how bad it was What magazine had it as the bike of the year?

Dirt Rider. Ken Faught was the editor at that time, probably the worse Moto journalist of all time and not just for the Cannondale debacle. They had a TV show where they would test bikes and do shootouts - told all of his test riders they were not aloud to say anything negative about any of the bikes. All tests, be it bikes, parts, Accessories, etc were all paid advertisements.  

5
7/16/2023 4:41pm

I'm a bit of a collector and thought two things when the bikes came out:  first, that all the innovation was quite impressive and, second, that the thing would in all likelihood become a collector bike.  I've since acquired three of them:  Bike #80, brand new, unstarted, without the recall head mod and with both sets of new plastic (black and red);  a brand new X440; and a rider X440.  As new, collector bikes, these are great to look at and the list of innovations gives talking points for hours.  As a rider, they definitely have issues.  The first thing of notice is the noise.  Because of the short header space, they had to reduce the length of the exhaust can in an effort to stretch the header as far as possible.  So its noisy, and it revs quickly.  Don't be looking for much torque in this package, as even the 440 sounds (and rides) more like a 300 than something close to a 450.  And maybe that was a contributor to the poor reliability, as guys revved the crap out of them in an effort to get it up to speed.

I think part of bigger problem was that, despite being creative on one hand, on the other hand the Cannondale engineers were following some (or too much) of the old school thumper design, principally that any thumper needed to have a dry sump engine with a giant oil reserve stored both in the cases and the frame.  Three quarts of oil and all the supporting architecture for it makes duplicating the smaller cases design of the '98 YZ400 much harder to achieve.  Maybe they figured all that oil would cure any internal design flaws in the motor, but I suspect there was no amount of oil that would fix everything.  This also contributed to the top-heavy feel of the bike - that, and the giant radiator and heavy frame material (even aluminum is heavy when there is too much of it).  The fuel injection was an impressive add-on, but the electric start probably added a bunch of complexity and weight that was hard to justify.

That being said, I always try to get the rider out a couple times a year.  As an old guy, I'm probably about the same speed on the Cannondale as I might be on a modern bike, and riding round on a unicorn can be plenty of fun as well.

Cdale.jpg?VersionId=SRmnXpJ1Q

 

7
Nairb#70
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Ivoryton, CT US
7/16/2023 5:21pm

I dont think I completed the lap that I started on one at OCR in Bithlo, FL. It was in a different galaxy than my YZ 426. Dont forget, Keith Johnson (New England) holeshot nearly every national moto in I think 99 or 2000 as factory rider, only to DNF. Just a totally unfortunate situation.

1
BBA
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somewhere, NC US
7/16/2023 6:24pm
BBA wrote:
I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of...

I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of the technology on it.  The owner said it was the biggest pos he had ever owned. I never did see him actually out on the track with it though. Not long after that MXA hit the newsstands with their article warning everyone just how bad the bike was, and the rest is history. I wouldn't mind having one now just to tinker with. 

Maicoman07 wrote:

Concerning MXA warning everyone how bad it was What magazine had it as the bike of the year?

XC706 wrote:
Dirt Rider. Ken Faught was the editor at that time, probably the worse Moto journalist of all time and not just for the Cannondale debacle. They...

Dirt Rider. Ken Faught was the editor at that time, probably the worse Moto journalist of all time and not just for the Cannondale debacle. They had a TV show where they would test bikes and do shootouts - told all of his test riders they were not aloud to say anything negative about any of the bikes. All tests, be it bikes, parts, Accessories, etc were all paid advertisements.  

I totally agree about Faught and when he left DR and Jimmy Lewis took over the mag totally was much better right away. 

1
1
7/16/2023 7:14pm

Any actual owners remember the steering head brace being added as recall? I would love to find a well sorted Cannondale for a couple tomes a year rider. Wish I never got rid of mine.

1
burn1986
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bossier city, LA US
7/16/2023 7:17pm
I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years...

I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years so I was super pumped to make that happen last week after finding a living breathing example to ride. Here's what happened...

 

 

Really well done enjoyed it 👍

1
Mossy940
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La Quinta, CA US
7/18/2023 8:08am Edited Date/Time 7/18/2023 10:05am
Ramrod wrote:

Better for Cannondale to try and fail than to not try at all...

I`d bet they might disagree......

I can confirm those at Cannondale at the time did not find it amusing -

Once upon a time I worked for a guy who was a VP for Cannondale during the time they came out with the dirt bike….I made what I thought was a funny dig at the bike, and holy shit was I informed that was not ok.

A lot of people put everything into that bike, and the fact it still bothers those involved so much says a lot -

2
Dhallmark
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Lancaster, TX US
7/18/2023 8:14am

Didn’t shift well, little down on power but fun to ride.  

chaseodc
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Fort Myers, FL US
7/18/2023 9:52am

I had seen this a while back here in Fort Myers. Looks to be in really good shape and the conversion was well done. It was cool to see one in the wild still. 0615191717

 

7
BobbyMyers
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Aj, AZ US
7/18/2023 8:40pm
I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years...

I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years so I was super pumped to make that happen last week after finding a living breathing example to ride. Here's what happened...

 

 

Dial up Jim Gibson, he was hired to race and ride the scooter...  think. 

wreckitrandy
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Granite Falls, NC US
7/18/2023 11:45pm
I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years...

I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years so I was super pumped to make that happen last week after finding a living breathing example to ride. Here's what happened...

 

 

BobbyMyers wrote:

Dial up Jim Gibson, he was hired to race and ride the scooter...  think. 

Gary Jones managed to win a vet title on one if memory serves. 

1
7/19/2023 3:39am Edited Date/Time 7/19/2023 3:40am
AzTrooper wrote:
I seem to remember the Cannondale having what they called a cassette transmission.  I cant for the life of me remember with any certainty why they...

I seem to remember the Cannondale having what they called a cassette transmission.  I cant for the life of me remember with any certainty why they called it that. I seem to remember something about it being a modular design or something. 

                      John

Yeah, I believe it was totally removable w/o splitting the cases; you could pull the trany out one side....pretty cool "works bike" type stuff....

I heard it was Cannondale’s first attempt at BB30A, the whole bike. 

PN27416
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Coopersburg, PA US
7/19/2023 3:45am
I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years...

I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years so I was super pumped to make that happen last week after finding a living breathing example to ride. Here's what happened...

 

 

BobbyMyers wrote:

Dial up Jim Gibson, he was hired to race and ride the scooter...  think. 

I think you meant Jeff Gibson. He did race it at a few nationals.

2
ATKpilot99
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Lake Geneva, WI US
7/19/2023 3:58am
I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years...

I've always been fascinated by the story of the Cannondale Motocross bikes and have wanted to make a video with the infamous MX400 for many years so I was super pumped to make that happen last week after finding a living breathing example to ride. Here's what happened...

 

 

BobbyMyers wrote:

Dial up Jim Gibson, he was hired to race and ride the scooter...  think. 

PN27416 wrote:

I think you meant Jeff Gibson. He did race it at a few nationals.

Keith Johnson also . His best moto finish was a 14th at Broome Tioga .

1
7/19/2023 12:33pm
I was out for a desert ride in Plaster City back in 2001 the first time I saw a Cannondale in person. The guy unloaded it...

I was out for a desert ride in Plaster City back in 2001 the first time I saw a Cannondale in person. The guy unloaded it, put on his gear, started the bike and rode it no more than 200 feet before it quit. I watched him push it back to his truck, motor dripping oil, loaded it back up and he left.

Some guy raced a Cannondale at Day in the Dirt back in 2010ish (when it was at Pala). The bike was leaking oil the entire time we were waiting in the staging area to practice starts.

I bought my MX400 used, but looked like brand new. I never rode it other than in my yard, could never get it to run for long. I wound up parting it out on Ebay! Even had the frame DMV titled, thought I had won the lotto when I got it, then felt the burn of the taxes after owning it for a month, LOL!

7/19/2023 9:25pm
BBA wrote:
I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of...

I only saw one Cannondale at a track back in the day. I thought it was an awesome looking bike and was curious about all of the technology on it.  The owner said it was the biggest pos he had ever owned. I never did see him actually out on the track with it though. Not long after that MXA hit the newsstands with their article warning everyone just how bad the bike was, and the rest is history. I wouldn't mind having one now just to tinker with. 

Maicoman07 wrote:

Concerning MXA warning everyone how bad it was What magazine had it as the bike of the year?

I think I remember those articles. The first was written in the standard  MXA hyperbolic and thin fashion. As a young adult I was impressed with what Cannondale had done, according to MXA.  Then the second article stated the bike was a disaster claiming they listened to the wrong people for final set up, if I recall correctly.
 

I couldn’t figure out how it went from so good to so bad, and that’s when I began to really question what magazines were telling us.

2
Heavyhitter
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Machias, WA US
7/20/2023 3:43pm
chaseodc wrote:
I had seen this a while back here in Fort Myers. Looks to be in really good shape and the conversion was well done. It was...

I had seen this a while back here in Fort Myers. Looks to be in really good shape and the conversion was well done. It was cool to see one in the wild still. 0615191717

 

I swear I saw this as a bike build on here! 

Heavyhitter
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Machias, WA US
7/20/2023 3:45pm
chaseodc wrote:
I had seen this a while back here in Fort Myers. Looks to be in really good shape and the conversion was well done. It was...

I had seen this a while back here in Fort Myers. Looks to be in really good shape and the conversion was well done. It was cool to see one in the wild still. 0615191717

 

https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Bike-Builds,46/2003-Cannondale-X440-SM-C…;

 

I think its different, what a trip there is 2 of em at least haha

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