Steel Frames

Related:
Create New Tag

8/11/2018 6:49 PM

The Japanese bikes are getting very good and kind of running out of things to do. Every year they try to add more flex to the aluminum frames, but itll never be the same. What do u think the chances are one of the Japanese manufacturors goes back to a steel frame. It would be a huge change and immediately improve the bike if done right. Ktm is clearly doing very well with theirs. Any chance of this?

I know aluminum frames are cheaper but the bikes are getting very expensive anyways. Id vote yamaha because they keep searching for better steering performance. I almost said Suzuki to set them apart which they badly need plus elec start, etc... but then I thought about how theyre already the best steering and really have no need. Yamaha already has the most unique setup I think a steel frame could put em over the top.

|

8/11/2018 6:53 PM

KTM marketing shines through again with this one.

|

8/11/2018 7:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 8/12/2018 5:52 AM

I think some of the "FEEL" is due to the perimeter type frame being a box and not able to flex as much. I also think a single back bone type frame will flex a lil more regardless of the frame material. Ala "Yz two stroke". Could be wrong though.

One things for sure. I sure do like being able to clean my frame with scotch bright and it come out looking new again.!

|

8/11/2018 9:06 PM

If aluminum frames are so much cheaper for OEM's, why don't all of the Japanese trail bikes (TT-R230, KLX140, etc...) have them?

|

8/11/2018 9:57 PM

steel frames have more feel. same for mountainbikes. aluminum mt bikes suuuck

|

8/12/2018 12:00 AM

Steel is not all the same. Right before the OEMs switched to aluminum, the Japanese frames were not pure high-quality 4130 chromoly steel, but more of a hybrid of mild steel to safe money. The Japanese steel frames would stretch and change dimension over time, ask Chad Reed.

Play bikes can get away with mild steel frames because they are not put through the stress of say a motocross bike.

Standard Mild steel is cheap and easy to work with, Real 4130 Chromoly steel is way more expensive and harder to shape and bend unless you get a softer condition material then heat treat it after being bent and welded.

Aluminum frames are easy to make, cost less and don't stretch.

|

8/12/2018 12:50 AM

2004 YZ250 with SSS + 09 swingarm = lovely.

|

There's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear.

8/12/2018 4:37 AM

SPYGUY wrote:

If aluminum frames are so much cheaper for OEM's, why don't all of the Japanese trail bikes (TT-R230, KLX140, etc...) have ...more

Massive price difference in mild steel and chromoly steel. Pretty significant difference in chromoly steel grades as well. Trail bikes arent chromoly frames, they are mild steel with stamped steel pieces welded in. IE: cheap

|

8/12/2018 4:53 AM

There's nothing wrong with an aluminium frame.

|

8/12/2018 5:30 AM

milliebays wrote:

steel frames have more feel. same for mountainbikes. aluminum mt bikes suuuck

Carbon is the only way to go in the world of cycling.

|

8/12/2018 7:33 AM

ledger wrote:

2004 YZ250 with SSS + 09 swingarm = lovely.

Now that’s a bike I’d like to ride. PC pipe, JD Jet, VPR and wowwwiee

|

8/12/2018 8:41 AM

"There are only two choice carbon or aluminium for mountain bikes " chromoly is gone !
"XCO and enduro riders carbon fibre - However, for downhill racers, aluminium is a serious alternative"
Steel frame are only used as a cheap alternative !

|

8/12/2018 10:27 AM

VRR7 wrote:

"There are only two choice carbon or aluminium for mountain bikes " chromoly is gone !
"XCO and enduro riders carbon fibre - ...more

lol no.

plenty of people still building in steel.

alloy is used because its cheap and can be made sufficiently strong. steel maintains a weight penalty.

though, those concerned more about feel than weight have kept steel in business.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-shan-n5-in-the-making.html

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/production-privee-steel-shan-n5-review.html


https://www.stantonbikes.com/

http://forums.mtbr.com/bike-frame-discussion/steel-hardtail-decisions-1065628.html

|

8/12/2018 11:16 AM

Photo
|

My post is my opinion. If you don't agree with it, I'm OK with it.

8/13/2018 1:36 PM

ledger wrote:

2004 YZ250 with SSS + 09 swingarm = lovely.

I have this bike an set-up already, but I like my 09 YZ 250f too much to rob the swingarm off of it quite yet!

STEEL IS REAL!!!!

|

8/13/2018 1:51 PM

VRR7 wrote:

"There are only two choice carbon or aluminium for mountain bikes " chromoly is gone !
"XCO and enduro riders carbon fibre - ...more

Look at all your boutique custom frames, most deal with steel and Ti.
I have a steel cx bike and that’s a smooth riding bike. I’ve had several Niner Sir9 and I wish I kept them. My carbon is nice, but hard to beat steel, especially in a hardtail.

|

8/13/2018 1:56 PM

drt410 wrote:

The Japanese bikes are getting very good and kind of running out of things to do. Every year they try to add more flex to the ...more

Why does anyone need e-start

|

8/13/2018 2:04 PM

Funny you mention this, a friend and I had this same conversation in the garage during our weekend BS session.

So much money and time in R&D has been put into alloy frames that I don't think they'll switch back. That's nearly admitting 20+ year design flaw and there's too much pride to make that change. There are many other things they can improve upon without a complete frame change to get the desired results. For the consumer, it's almost negligible, but for the serious racer, you can only feel minor differences. Not enough I think to reverse engineer to a new/old frame design for the big 4.

|

8/13/2018 2:49 PM

This is popular discussion in our 'shop. I personally hate the Alloy frames, I find them really harsh.

Have you ever counted how many separate parts go into a frame?
On the 96 CR250, (I'm a Honda guy, it's all we work on so I use them for reference) the frame has something like 60 or more separate, individual pieces. Tubes, plates, gusset, threaded inserts, brackets etc. They all have to be stamped/pressed/bent and each part has to have a fixture or jig and then has to be welded.
On an 04 CR250 frame (I had them side by side in the 'shop) I counted less then 30 (I think it was 24) seperate parts.
That's just the main frame, not including the subframes!!

A lot of stuff billed as "inovation" and the newest and greatest isn't at all. It just the factory trying to sell you a cheaper/easier to produce version of last year's product. (Honda's Power-Valve "evolution" is a perfect example of this!)
Alloy frames aren't better, just cheaper.

|

Check out our website! www.phildentonengineering.com E-mail if you don't see what you're after!

The finest Titanium, Stainless Steel and Billet alloy components in the world!

Engine building, Race prep, Restoration

https://www.facebook.com/PhilDentonEngineering

8/13/2018 3:14 PM

Realistically if there were ONE Japanese mfg that could make some serious gains with a good steel frame in my opinion would be Yamaha. Simply replacing the frame spars with good tube steel in a similar frame design compared to what they have, they could really cut down on the bulkiness of the front end of the bike. Of course there would need to be some major changes to accommodate the airbox but overall I think they could make a much slimmer and overall smaller looking and feeling bike with a steel frame instead of the aluminum one they use now.

|

8/13/2018 9:04 PM

JWACK wrote:

I think some of the "FEEL" is due to the perimeter type frame being a box and not able to flex as much. I also think a single ...more

Didn't Reed HATE the AL framed YZ two strokes though?

|

Ride like a girl!!!
2016 KTM 500 EXC-F
Current project: 2007 Kawasaki KX250-R7 retro build
Current project #2: 1987 Kawasaki KX250-E1 rider/racer resto
1989 KX125 resto
1987 RM250 resto

8/14/2018 5:33 AM

queen of spodes wrote:

Didn't Reed HATE the AL framed YZ two strokes though?

I think he liked steel better. And it may be better. But consider this. How many years of testing and development did the steel frame bike have in comparison.? Of course your going to like what your comfortable on and have a bazillion laps logged already.

|