Diminishing rookie success

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8/2/2019 9:22 PM

Ive noticed as of late that it takes riders a few years to start getting wins or strongly being a championship contender.
Probably due to kids being serious younger now so when they turn pro their more ready
I cant remember the last REALLY good rookie

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8/2/2019 9:35 PM

Forkner AC.

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8/2/2019 10:56 PM

OR Racer46 wrote:

Forkner AC.

How many years are they in the pro ranks without a championship though?

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8/3/2019 2:14 AM

I think the OP has a fair point, don't know what the answer is though?

Seemed more common 10-20 years back that a rookie could come in and be a star. In the 450s Dungey may have been the last to do it? 250s: Can't think of the last rookie to come in and be in the championship run?

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8/3/2019 2:37 AM

Amateur racing in the US is fucked up.. kids who should be in the nationals learning their craft are dicking about doing 4 lap races nobody gives a shit about.

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8/3/2019 5:17 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2019 5:21 AM

philG wrote:

Amateur racing in the US is fucked up.. kids who should be in the nationals learning their craft are dicking about doing 4 lap races nobody gives a shit about.

This.

Amateurs who were going into factory rides used to essentially be waiting to turn 16 then jump into the series at whatever round they were eligible. Now, they turn pro at 17.5 after LL and don’t finish their first full season until they’re 19. Then an injury or 2 and they’re 21 or 22 finally battling for a title.

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8/3/2019 5:22 AM

I don't think it's a bad thing... It was exciting when guys could come in and immediately win but I think it says more about the talent of the other pros when they can't.

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8/3/2019 5:27 AM

rehan53 wrote:

I don't think it's a bad thing... It was exciting when guys could come in and immediately win but I think it says more about the talent of the other pros when they can't.

Exactly. We are up against a glass ceiling with speed as the bikes being so good and fitness so sought after.

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8/3/2019 5:32 AM

I believe the last rookie to win their first race was Eli Tomac.

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8/3/2019 5:42 AM

racin mason wrote:

I believe the last rookie to win their first race was Eli Tomac.

Correct but the way you worded it made it sound a little common. Only Tomac and Stewart won their first race

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8/3/2019 6:20 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2019 6:22 AM

To be honest, RC and Stewart were the last ones that just came in and dominated. Chad Reed only raced one year in the 125 class, but won 6 out of 7 SX in the East. Took RV a year to get comfortable in SX. Dungey won his first ever SX race, but didn’t get a title until his 3rd year.

I mentioned this in the MB thread. It takes a while to learn Pro level race craft and develop and get used to Pro speed. He has 20+ years of that. Once you get it, it doesn’t really go away. It’s why guys like Brown, Emig, Reynard etc..... can go to LL and clean house. If MC or any of these guys that are retired and still ride always clean house there.

As for today’s Rookies, the tracks are a little more gnarly than anything they are used to in SX. They are used to SX Future style tracks and those are nothing like an actual SX track. Like anything, it takes practice and time. In the outdoors, they have to learn the speed and how to maintain it physically and mentally for 35-37 minutes. Mentally because they are the local fast kid and are used to dominating. Then they get thrown on a gate with 39 other guys that are the local kid who always dominates. Mentally it takes a while for them getting 10th-20th place when they are used to winning all the time. They just have to get physically and mentally conditioned to Pro speed.

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8/3/2019 7:11 AM

philG wrote:

Amateur racing in the US is fucked up.. kids who should be in the nationals learning their craft are dicking about doing 4 lap races nobody gives a shit about.

I usually ignore your miserable ramblings on here because you only have 2 contributions; shitting on everything US and TM supermoto. But tell me this, who is the last rookie to walk into MX2 and start winning? Must be something wrong with the EMX system, right?

The top amateurs haven't raced a 4 lap race since they were racing peewees. They hit a rotation of amateur nationals with long motos, not unlike the 7 race EMX series. The only difference is they are stand alone races, not a series run in conjunction with the nationals.

The top pros in the 250 class on both sides of the pond are just way too polished these days to let some kid come in and start winning races.

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8/3/2019 7:22 AM

Can't wait to see how Jett Lawrence does next week.
He has to be the youngest rookie ever. He's not even 16 today. He turns 16 next week if I'm not mistaken.

Unadilla is quite similar to the tracks he raced in Germany when he won the national Youngster cup title there at 14 y/o.
If he gets good start I would not be surprised to see him in the top 5

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8/3/2019 7:25 AM

There's also more, bigger 250 teams today than there was when RC and Stew made their debuts.

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8/3/2019 7:32 AM

racin mason wrote:

I believe the last rookie to win their first race was Eli Tomac.

AC won his first supercross race as a rookie and was bound to be champ until he tore his shoulders up, which pretty much affected the rest of his career from then on. We are just now getting to see what could have been. Rookies that come and win right out the gate are few and far between it takes a super special talent to come in and win right away and we only see those every so often.

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8/3/2019 7:39 AM

racin mason wrote:

I believe the last rookie to win their first race was Eli Tomac.

jingram4 wrote:

AC won his first supercross race as a rookie and was bound to be champ until he tore his shoulders up, which pretty much affected the rest of his career from then on. We are just now getting to see what could have been. Rookies that come and win right out the gate are few and far between it takes a super special talent to come in and win right away and we only see those every so often.

A regional sx win while impressive isn't quite the same as winning a National. Putting together 2 30min motos against the entire field

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8/3/2019 8:05 AM

Big fish in little pond syndrome. You have parents paying for rides in amateurs. It’s not different than what is going on with AAA kids baseball and the rest of the stick and ball sports. Once they make it to a collegiate level, very few of them actually perform.

Out of each Loretta’s graduating class, maybe 1-2 will actually pan out into a career.

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8/3/2019 8:25 AM

The way the sport has progressed it’s going to be harder for a 16 year old kid to come in and dominate. Can’t overlook the value of experience of the older guys. Even in the NFL it takes a couple of years.

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8/3/2019 9:49 AM

Not every amateur star will be a success in the pro ranks. Sad part of racing is there are only about 5-6 riders that can win championships.

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8/3/2019 9:52 AM

Lots of kids are really good, but, they're kids. Right around 16 or so, they start to not want to be an 'athlete', too hard. So they do their best with 'talent'. Most don't make it. Plus, girls, trucks, all that gets in the way.

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8/3/2019 9:56 AM

Training facilities make all the kids the same.

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8/3/2019 10:25 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2019 10:28 AM

I thought Tomac was the only person to win their very first pro race?

JS7 won his first National but he had already ridden and won SX races.

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8/3/2019 10:38 AM
Edited Date/Time: 8/3/2019 10:39 AM

250f is a lot more bike than a 125

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8/3/2019 10:45 AM

loftyair wrote:

Lots of kids are really good, but, they're kids. Right around 16 or so, they start to not want to be an 'athlete', too hard. So they do their best with 'talent'. Most don't make it. Plus, girls, trucks, all that gets in the way.

100% accurate

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8/3/2019 10:45 AM

There is much more depth now that the riding facility kids have grown up. Look at any other wction sport now, it’s crazy how young they are starting these little dudes and how good they already are. I just saw what looked like damn toddlers skating at the X Games doing adult tricks.

It’s a very talented field up at at the front. Just the way it is but we get better racing out of it.

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8/3/2019 10:51 AM

JB 19 wrote:

Training facilities make all the kids the same.

Maybe it's riding professionally made, groomed tracks all the time? Back in the day you'd show up and race a dusty hardpack piece of crap and it was normal. IDK.
When I first came to CA, I was doing laps and I noticed everybody pulled off. Then I noticed we had a slight misting of rain, and nobody wanted to deal with it. I thought that was funny- back East if it's not 6 inches of mud, it's a good day.

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8/3/2019 11:09 AM

The sport has gotten harder, plain and simple. You need talent, backing, a fantastic bike, a fit body, relentless determination, and more than a little luck to win a single moto these days. Never mind the necessity to do well in two of them to get an overall win.
Even among the groomed factory kids these days, it's a tall order to ask them to go right out and win.

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Braaapin' aint easy.

8/3/2019 11:20 AM

Sierra Ranger wrote:

Maybe it's riding professionally made, groomed tracks all the time? Back in the day you'd show up and race a dusty hardpack piece of crap and it was normal. IDK.
When I first came to CA, I was doing laps and I noticed everybody pulled off. Then I noticed we had a slight misting of rain, and nobody wanted to deal with it. I thought that was funny- back East if it's not 6 inches of mud, it's a good day.

Except you make it sound like the riders are worse now. The talent bar has just been raised as the sport progresses. It’s kinda wild to compare the 250 and 450 lap times because half the time they are the same or damn near.

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8/3/2019 11:37 AM

The high cost of the sport in the amateur side , is weeding out a lot of the talent in the pro ranks , that used to come from the middle class income families . The middle class kids can’t afford to race anymore . We are now seeing the talent in the pro ranks , coming from only the upper income kids , because they are the only ones who are in the sport . It’s just numbers , law of averages . Talent can come from any economic class , and talent rises to the top in any sport ... but only if it’s in the game to begin with . I suspect that the kid born with the most natural MX talent , in the history of MX , is out there right now somewhere .... playing soccer .

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8/3/2019 11:51 AM

4 Stokes

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