4 stroke maintenance

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11/24/2013 10:40 PM

So someone tell me again how 4 strokes cost more to ride/race than 2 strokes. Don't get me wrong I love smokers too, I just don't understand the argument that they are killing the sport and cost more to ride. Racing 250 two strokes I would get about 50 hrs outta a top end and it would cost me around $200 to replace that. I would also burn up a clutch in 50 hrs at another $100-150. My cranks would go at around 100 hrs and would be a top and bottom end at that point and cost $1000 to get back up to steam. Don't even start with me about 125's.....
On my 450 I replace my piston at 80hr, not cause I need one like I would on my two stroke(at 50 hrs), but just cause I feel like I should. It cost me $275, my clutch is fine cause it's a fing 450 and you don't need to clutch with all that torque. I've lost my bottom end on my last three 450's at around 130 hrs, at that point I do a bottom end, as well as a piston and cylinder to the tune of around $1,200. Maybe I'm lucky but I've owned a new 450 every year since 07 all with over 100 hrs and I've never touched a valve.
I usually sell my bikes around 150 hrs, the 250 has cost me about $2,000,three top ends, three clutches and one bottom end. At 150hrs my 450's cost me about $1,400.
Honestly I love both bikes, as each are a blast to ride, I've just never understood the cost argument.

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11/24/2013 10:46 PM

You sir, are the exception to the rule.

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Chuck Norris is 1/8th Scottish. This has nothing to do with ancestry, the man ate a fucking Scotsman!

11/24/2013 10:56 PM

Maybe so, that's why I posted this, I've always heard all this talk about how expensive 4 strokes are and I just haven't seen it personally. Again this is not a 2vs4 thread both are awesome in there own right, I just felt like in my experience 4 strokes are cheaper to ride/own rather than more expensive.

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11/24/2013 10:59 PM

Been around since the early two strokes, then into the four stroke era and I can tell you, there is no comparison. lol But whatever you are doing you are doing it right. Keep it up and you should be a happy four stroke rider!

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[LINK TO IMAGE]

Chuck Norris is 1/8th Scottish. This has nothing to do with ancestry, the man ate a fucking Scotsman!

11/24/2013 11:30 PM

Agree 100% with you dude.

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Go Hawks!

11/24/2013 11:52 PM

We are in the same boat but I will never speak of repairing the bikes to be on the same level.
I have been fortunate never to blow an engine, sounds like you have too.

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11/24/2013 11:54 PM

urbanlift707 wrote:

Maybe so, that's why I posted this, I've always heard all this talk about how expensive 4 strokes are and I just haven't seen it personally. Again this is not a 2vs4 thread both are awesome in there own right, I just felt like in my experience 4 strokes are cheaper to ride/own rather than more expensive.

Because one day when a valve drops or when your piston cracks and destroys evertyhing internal in your four stroke engine it will set you back really good. That's the difference, the head and everything that comes with it are not cheap.
Perhaps they are more reliable than the two stoke but when it fails, it will give you headache.

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#1
KX125

11/25/2013 4:37 AM

Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2 strokes included.

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11/25/2013 5:15 AM

Part of the reason you have found the four strokes cheap to run is because you're running 450f's as opposed to 250f's and partly because you buy a new bike every year. At around three years old the four strokes begin to start having issues with reliability while the two strokes stay pretty much the same throughout their lifetime. So while the four stroke is cheaper the first three years the two stroke is cheaper after that.

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11/25/2013 5:29 AM

I have had good experience with 250F. Every 50 hrs(season) it gets topend and cam chain. Put a 290cc on 2 years ago so I go through clutches more now. Did valves and springs last season at ~125 hrs as maintenance. I am certainly not as hard on a bike as a real racer though, just a vet weekend warrior. Going into the 5th season on this machine. 2009 YZ250F

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11/25/2013 5:35 AM

I'm with you Urbanlift Bro.

I'm going to read this thread periodically to see the 2-stroke mafia tell you that you are wrong haha

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United States of America

11/25/2013 7:30 AM

450s are pretty damn reliable. That said, it seems like your prices are kind of wack? Top end is more like 150 and I'm not sure how it would cost me $1000 to do top and bottom end unless maybe you are replacing every single part in the motor including bearings in the transmission? Honestly, I don't go through clutches on my 250 2strokes but I'm not a pro level rider either.

Either way, it's cool in your case you seem to be making out pretty well comparing the two. They are all fun as hell to rip on a track.

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11/25/2013 10:07 AM

newmann wrote:

Get back to us on your 250F experiences. I don't think too many people have complained about reliability issues on open class bikes, 500 cc 2 strokes included.

This times one billion!!! 450's are not bad compared to 2 strokes, maybe even better in some cases as the op stated. But a 250f, which is WAY MORE FUN to ride than a 450, will put you in financial and mental dyer straights just trying to keep that dang thing running!

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11/25/2013 11:44 AM
Edited Date/Time: 11/25/2013 11:46 AM

1000$ for a bottom on a 2stroke? are you out of your f'in mind?! Maybe if you blew the whole thing up and the crank, case and transmission got chewed up pretty badly. But see how much that same incident costs on a 4stroke...

The reason people love the low 2 stroke cost is because the MX engines are made for performance rather then durability like let's say a Honda 650XR (low HP mono, runs forever). Engines of an MX bike wil blow eventually, 2 or 4 stroke it does not matter. The thing is WHEN it blows (and i mean blows, everything including the case is chewed up. So your looking on CL for a casehalf or for a welder/machineshop), the smoker is 1/3rd cheaper to overhaul then the 4stroke.
Add to that, every guy can do a smoker rebuild in his shed, the rebuild of a stroker is allot more complicated for the average joe. People also have kids to feed and a wife to maintain. Unexpected costs have to be as low as possible. Riding MX and keeping low unexpected costs are not going well togeather... So the smoker is the best answer for that.

If you're buying a new stoker every year then you're avoiding the engine failures most of the time, but your bikes cost allot since the resale value of a stroker is pretty low. (over here atleast)

I have nothing against strokers, i had 2 before and im riding a KTM 690 as dual sport. Thing is that 690 is bulletproof compared to MX strokers. For MX i'l have my cheap 2500$ smoker because i'm not up for dumping 10k every year for a 450 that i can't even hold on to.

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11/25/2013 11:54 AM

I think it's great to hear something other than a horror story involving four stroke maintenance, although as some people have pointed out $1K seems steep for a two-stroke rebuild (I think I paid $350 for an entire top/bottom kit with gaskets and bearings for my KX 250, but I also did my own work so there wasn't a labor cost.)

I've had three 450Fs, and two of the three all needed new valves/head recut in addition to piston when I got them.
This was obviously due to maintenance neglect on the part of POs. Are you saying you haven't had to adjust a valve, or haven't checked them?

Just curious, have you been on the same brand this whole time? Because if you have, I'm going to buy that brand if I ever buy another 450!

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11/25/2013 12:23 PM

I agree 100% I own a 2009 YZ450F and in those 5 years it has taken two pistons at over 120hr each. One clutch set of frictions and steels, and i have only inspected side play & up and down each time ive had the cylinder off. Bike has been solid and i do all my on work. With that said i have a YZ490 that has cost me more $ and more time due to the nature of the bike and how i ride it but that doesn't bother me, thing is a rocket and scares me almost every time i ride it. That's why both types of motors rock in their own way.

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11/25/2013 1:58 PM

Again, how many have complained about the maintenance costs of an open class bike?

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11/25/2013 2:02 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/25/2013 2:02 PM

All I do is change the oil on my 450. No other issues. Far less maintenance than the 2 strokes I had.... I wouldn't go back!!!


The tin foil hat wearers can keep crying.....

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The message posted above is most likely my opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact....

11/25/2013 2:51 PM

I've avoided this topic for a while, but what the heck. I've raced a 250F since 2004, and have competed in every skill level class over the years as well. Over the past 3 years I have also owned a few two strokes (2 YZ250s, 2 KX125s, and currently an 05 KX250) with the hopes of having a cheap, reliable, practice bike. In ten years of racing 250Fs (04,05,06,07, 10 Hondas, 10,13, and currently two 14 Kawasakis) I have had one catastrophic engine failure due to a leaking head gasket (my fault) where I destroyed a rod, cases, cylinder, head, etc. I'll admit to the two stroke fans, that one hurt. In addition to this I've experienced two minor issues on these bikes, one when the 04 CRF sucked dirt and needed intake seats recut and valves replaced, and a KX cracked a piston but nothing else was damaged. If you include 450's, I've cracked 3 pistons, none of which took out any other parts. All other bikes have been trouble free with simple top end replacements every 20-30 hours, and I have put as many as 200 hours on a 250f, and over 350 hours on a couple of 450s without changing top ends nearly as often. OEM top end kits can be found for around $150 and anyone who can change a two stroke piston should be able to do a 250F provided you can read a manual. The addition of lining up a pair of cam gears and a chain is a poor excuse.

Conversely, of my five two strokes, I managed to blow up all but the 125 I sold before I put more than 5 hours on. Every time I have blown up a two stroke I have damaged the cylinder plating, crank, and of course, piston. I have never found any reasoning behind this, as the bikes were pretty much stock with the possible exception of a pipe. The longest I have ever run a piston on a 125 was 15 hours, and a 250 28 hours before it blew. So to rebuild these bikes you are looking at $480 (price for a top & bottom end kit from motosport), plus the cost of either replating a cylinder or replacing it ($300-500).

With that being said, I like my 250 two stroke. It's fast, handles well, and has a unique feeling to it. Quite frankly though, I trust my four strokes far more. Regardless of which one I'm on I seem to have fun though.

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11/25/2013 2:57 PM

newmann wrote:

Again, how many have complained about the maintenance costs of an open class bike?

No one, because the only people I know with them are straight line heroe's and six pack warriors....not exactly the type to do routine maintenance.

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Tomac and/or Anderson for 2020.....

11/25/2013 3:01 PM

I've never blown up a 4 stroke. Since going to 4 strokes in 2007 I've never had one problem.

Guess Ive been lucky...cool

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Racing motocross since 1996

11/25/2013 3:52 PM

It really is good to hear. All of the time I was on 450s, I honestly felt worried that the countdown to death was on a much faster clock. Still not sure that I will go back... I keep thinking about this: ">

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11/25/2013 4:06 PM

My 2010 CRF250R that I raced just about every weekend had 150hours on stock valves and stock crank. Had to adjust one valve once and put 3 pistons in it, one every 30-40 hours.

My 2009 was a similar experience.

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11/25/2013 5:05 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/25/2013 5:08 PM

what i want to know is how you jokers are counting the hours. do you all have hour counters hooked up? the bitch is on a stopwatch? or is it a guess? i had a buddy that would claim changing oil every 3 hours and i know for a fuckin' fact that thing was never connected to anything to count the time. more than likely most (not all, some of you dorks are weird like that) of you are pulling time out of your ass.

only reason i ask is since i bought my 300, i have over 50 (realistically 30) hours on it. we're moto-bros, everything is more and bigger than in reality. a 60 foot table turns to a 90 foot supercross triple pretty fuckin' quickly depending on the participants of the conversation (and when i say participants i mean the blonde in the SRH shirt you're trying to panty drop).

CLT809, no offense but i'm calling bullshit... 28 hours on a 250 is all you could muster? do you have an ocean front property for sale in Arizona too, bruh?

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11/25/2013 5:15 PM

Bro, I run the Works Connection hour meter/tachometer on my machines bro!

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United States of America

11/25/2013 5:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/25/2013 5:42 PM

I ride a lot. My 04 Yz250f seized one crank in 9 years because the oil pump impeller broke. Still had original head and valves in it when I sold it this spring. I change the oil and filter every other "ride." Sometimes each ride if I rode a lot or its really hot out. Nine months on my 2013 yz250f this year and the valves still in spec. Going to tear down this winter to check everything else.

I follow my manual pretty closely and I believe it saves money. The guys that designed, built, and tested that engine wrote it. I think they have a good idea of when things wear and are going to need inspected/replaced.

"100 hrs and I've never touched a valve" If you have never touched or adjusted a valved at 100hrs with several bikes you are lucky I think. An exception to the rule as TerryK said.

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11/25/2013 6:10 PM
Edited Date/Time: 11/25/2013 6:13 PM

where your missing the money difference is that when you say your buying a brand new bike every year costing you around 2k per upgrade, the old smoker you forgot about is still an 05 old dogger in the shed thats still going strong and not loosing any money per year at that point.

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11/25/2013 6:42 PM

My experience with smokers is that most people don't want 'em to smoke. They don't like spooge running down their silencer. So, they mix their oil about 50 to 1. Sometimes even less oil than that. Try running your four stroke about half a quart low for 50 hours and see how they do.

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11/25/2013 6:48 PM

Yamaha hour meter mounted under the seat, actually reads the accumulated hours from both my 2008 and 2009 YZ250F's.... it reads 281.1hrs. Chinese ones for $8 from ebay are likely just as good though. I attribute success to changing oil at 3-4 hrs and keeping the air filter fresh.

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11/25/2013 7:28 PM

peelout wrote:

what i want to know is how you jokers are counting the hours. do you all have hour counters hooked up? the bitch is on a stopwatch? or is it a guess? i had a buddy that would claim changing oil every 3 hours and i know for a fuckin' fact that thing was never connected to anything to count the time. more than likely most (not all, some of you dorks are weird like that) of you are pulling time out of your ass.

only reason i ask is since i bought my 300, i have over 50 (realistically 30) hours on it. we're moto-bros, everything is more and bigger than in reality. a 60 foot table turns to a 90 foot supercross triple pretty fuckin' quickly depending on the participants of the conversation (and when i say participants i mean the blonde in the SRH shirt you're trying to panty drop).

CLT809, no offense but i'm calling bullshit... 28 hours on a 250 is all you could muster? do you have an ocean front property for sale in Arizona too, bruh?

Do you even know what an hour meter is? In case you haven't checked, hour meters are pretty cheap to buy and easy to install. They're very common. In fact everyone I know that rides a 4 stroke has one.
I'd say your assumption is wrong and you're talking out of your ass.

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