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So, I thought it was interesting that we saw Stark racing a pretty well known race series. Are the powers that be, so pro 4 stroke, that we can't even get a 150cc 300cc 2 stroke rule for 250/450 classes? Come on, it's 25 years later, give us a bone or something....
Should be cc for cc. It’s 2026 we know a 250 is a 250.
Dude, ALL the powers that be have said NEVER. It's futile. We all get the reason for that. 4 strokes aren't quite as great as they told us over and over and over. But we need to move on from that, because they won't even have a conversation about that, we need to try for something.
IMO should be a 250 class based solely on displacement regardless of 2t or 4t, and an open class, 2t, 4t, electric, whatever. With the WSX format you'd need to allow electric in the 250 class though.
This is just my ideal for all series, but this is very unlikely to ever happen as the manufacturers don't want it to
Yes, most people agree with what we the fans think or want. Of course it should be cc for cc, but that would also eliminate all 4 strokes. Thus, it means zero to the powers that be, because they don't want 2 strokes to take back over. Allowing 150 and 300 doesn't threaten their 4 strokes, thus, we need to fight for something that we have atleast a little chance to achieve. Fighting for something that will never happen seems futile
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4 strokes would still be the most popular bikes. The Australian MX2 series used to allow 250 2 strokes and no one who was contending for top 5s and above was riding a 2 stroke. EMX250 allows 250 2 strokes and the 4 strokes sweep the podium probably 90% of the time
Are the rules still stock 2 strokes? Once 1 company started winning, on let's say 250 and 450 2 strokes. 4 strokes would disappear from mx. It hasn't happened, because no company has brought their A game to it and or they can't modify the motors like they want. Plus, a 350-450 2 stroke would be much more deadly to a 450f than a 250 vs 250. Either way, like they've said to everyone, they won't even consider it. So I don't get people fighting for something that they can't get. There's literally 0 chance ProAMA will ever allow equal displacement. FIM is only slightly relaxed about rules, allowing Stark.
Same here in Sweden. 250 2t is allowed in mx2 and most of the riders that use them is ”old” pro’s that want to ride a fun bike. The younger up and coming riders that got some type of ambition still goes for the 4t.
There is only one solution
Nope, Beta currently and Fantic previously were even running works 250 2 strokes in EMX250
With the OEMs not being so involved, I hoped WSX would try some more interesting things with the 2 classes. 250(F) & 450 just aren't different enough from each other imo. Also, I am pro-Stark/Ebike, but I think they should be in their own class.
The 250 2 strokes used to be able to compete in MX2 in Aus but can't anymore, as for EMX250, I don't know if that's current or what's going on there because there are multiple riders currently racing the championship on a 250 2 stroke
2025 and 2026 rules for Australia. Seems like they actually have the rules I'm asking for 150cc vs 250f. 300cc vs 450f. Maybe they got changed because the 2 strokes were doing too good. Who knows, but that's the rules. Only 1 of 2 outcomes when a 2 stroke does too good. Change the rules, or the 4 strokes goes away. The latter will not happen, with OEMS making the rules.
You can allow the 2-strokes to be whatever size you want in WSX and no one is going to choose them anyway.
Not true. The riders will ride what they get paid the most using. If "someone" offers a rider that isn't a factory rider, a "certain" amount of $, they will ride that bike.
My 250xc is without a doubt a faster machine than my 250xcf. Is it faster over the course of a race? Thats the question.
Im no pro. Not even close but I imagine those guys still choose the 4stroke due to it being easier to ride for a longer period of time. Especially when it was some 20k engine making 55 hp
Nobody gave a fuck about the twostrokes when the fourstrokes invaded mx, whats the difference now?
Starks are not affected by altitude but sucks in the whoops, it all evens out eventually.
Have You ever heard of the CR450 2 stroke, the CR480, and then CR500. Big bore 2 strokes have existed before and went away. Way back they used to have 125,250 and even 500's racing Supercross and the 250 class evolved to be the top class.
Manufacturers want to race a bike that is similar to what they sell. Their racing budgets come mostly from the advertising budgets. Manufacturers don't want works bikes or we would have the exemption still. The general public has voted that the majority do not want to ride big bore 2 strokes, and in Supercross especially I think they would be a disadvantage. Even the earlier straight Rythmes that Pastrana raced his RMzilla 500 against 450's in a straight line , he didn't dominate and I would argue he may have done better on a 450.
Maybe outdoors a big bore 2 stroke might be the choice on some tracks. But the powerstyle of the 4stroke makes them easier to ride and helps the handling. Being able to keep revs lower and keep Your chassis free, VS revving all the time and binding up the suspension.
Another point is that the WSX allows a 250 2 stroke in the SX2 class according to the rulebook.
Pit Row
I do kinda find it funny when people lobby for 2 strokes to be allowed and have equal displacement as 4 strokes so they would gain an advantage., but that electrics should have their own class because its too big of an advantage..................
But right now they all have their strengths and weaknesses. I think that the average rider would be faster on an electric than a gas bike. But as skill level increases that gap closes. The ability to shift and keep the engine in the perfect RPM gets better and the electric motors advantage of not depending on RPM to make its power is much smaller. Throttle control also improves and the smoother power delivery of the lectric is also then a smaller advantage .
At the pro levels , I think the chassis setup is going to make the biggest impact. And Stark is very new to Proracing and so is electric. Setting up a 4 stroke for SX is difdfernt than setting up a 2 stroke. It will take some time to learn what may work on electric that wouldn't on 2 or 4 strokes.
I personally LOVE seeing the Vargs racing against the ICE bikes. It's showing that they are not a giant advantage most of the time. EFI bikes had a slight advantage over the bikes with carbs back before everybody had EFI. So I really don't see them being different enough to warrant an entire different class. In that case, have a 2 stroke and 4 stroke only class too right? I see electric as more of an evolution in power delivery than a revolutionary development. There were dualshock bikes racing against single shock bikes at one point. Thats a bigger advantage than electric will be for a longtime.
all this 2 stroke obcession here is getting annoying to say the least......
even with all the exemples and proofs that 2strokes can race cc for cc in some series and very few do it by their own choice and without significant results.......still they keep comming here with their same old shit that if 2 strokes were allowd to race they whould win.....i even read here that mx would die if 2strokes were free........
understand something....anyone can buy a 2stroke, anyone can race a 2stroke, anyone can sleep with a 2 stroke........just leave us all out of your annoying old obcessions.......
learn about the sport, educate yourself.....things change, tesla gave us electricity, gates gave us internet, jobs gave us the i-phone......there is an all new world out there, ejoy it or please stfu in your cave.........
Remember this thread in 9 or 10 years, the entire field will be electric… 🤷🏼♂️
As others pointed out, 250 2 strokes have (had?) been allowed for a while in Canada, once in a while they got good results but that never was a popular choice for privateers.
I think it's pretty much similar in Australia, right now it's as OP said for MX: 300cc 2T in MX1 and 150cc 2T in MX2 and undiscriminated in SX: up to 250cc 2T or 4T in SX2 and up to 450cc in SX1.
And as Sasquatch wrote, 250 2T are allowed in WSX SX2, it's just that nobody bothers racing them.
Please chime in others more knowledgeable than me in Canada and Australia series.
I don't think many knew about the sx1 and sx2 rules until that was posted. Thanks, and Interesting. I'd say, next year, it is possible that there will be someone sponsored on a 2 stroke. Interesting that the big bikes don't have the rule, so a Beta 350 or new Kawi 327 could be raced. Hopefully that gets added for next year.
If they went equal displacement the four stroke wouldn’t go away. It’s much easier to ride and we’ve gotten lazier. So some people will race them for the sound, some for the economics, but they wouldn’t take over. Not sure what the reasoning not to do it is??
You are correct that there is no 2T made right now that can really compete in the 450 class because development on open bikes stopped when Reagan was president. They really messed up letting 250cc bikes race the 125 class. Nowadays a modified 250 2T makes about what a modified 250 4T makes, one just does it cheaper at 8500rpm and the other at 15500 more expensive rpm. The only reason they don't want them together but allow a Stark has to be politics.
When in doubt, follow the money...
Yes. Factory the 2stroke is just faster. But with some cheese that 250f makes real power real fast.
Yes, I have owned both a four stroke and two stroke of some variety or another for years now. There is no doubt four strokes hook up better, but I think two strokes are more "fun" though. It is easier to go fast consistently on a four stroke, but the two stroke feels faster.
Yea its just the way it is. I know the xc is a faster machine especially with the tbi making them more "4stroke".
However if I could pick a bike to go run a mideast series on to win a class its a 250f all day. Everything about them is just easier to ride. No where near as fun but the truth is for most of us the modern 250f especially with a few changes is probably the best "race" bike ever made.
Racing isnt always about raw power.
Why would anyone downvote this? It’s just displacement rules? Obviously the auspromx rules are the best and most ideal.
Post a reply to: Stark is allowed, can't we atleast get 150cc and 300cc 2 strokes for wsx?