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What we have now is you sign up for 2 or 3 classes just to get some track time. By the time you oh for 2 or 3 classes you wouldn’t be paying more for the long motos I’m proposing.
I don’t want to sit around for hours to get a 6 minute moto and then sit and repeat.
It sounds like nobody likes the current race format.
This would fix that.
I’d pay around 100-125 for 70 minutes of race track time ( 2 x 30 minute motos plus a 10 min practice.)
Compared to 4 x 8 minute motos (signing up for 2 classes 2 motos each 50 bucks a class)
Amen. Way, way way, way, way too many classes. Did I mention...way too many classes.
sounds like you need to get together with the parowan guy who has a venue and maybe desire to make a go at something like you are proposing...
I proposed higher speed increases risk of injury. that is not my opinion, that is physics.
Obstacles (or lack of obstacles) will effect liklihood of a mistake or crash, but a mistake or crash isn't the same as an injury.
Obstacle (risk of mistake) & Speed (risk of injury)
2 distinct but related variables.
You're advocating for reducing Obstacles (Risk of Mistakes) because you say it will reduce risk of injury.
Yes, somewhat, because less mistakes will happen. However, the full picture is that Reducing Obstacles also increases speed, and Speed is the predominant driver for Risk of Injury.
If you remove all of the obstacles you get a flat track, where there may be fewer crashes/mistakes, but the higher speed means more severe consequences for a mistake/crash.
Conversly, if a motocross track was deep ruts all the way around, super steep jumps with bad transitions (think endurcross log crossings)......... you'd have more crashes but less people getting injured (because of low speed).
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Brother how many folks are life flighted from turn tracks? Or grass tracks? How are we still arguing this same point?
There's too many problems with motocross racing at the local and regional level to discuss on this medium of communication.
Who knew drifting a 1200cc flat track bike on dirt with street tires was tricky…
That’s not what we’re discussing here.
I think they are 500cc and they do have knobbies.
here ya go.
Motocross is more dangerous due to speeds and obstacles. So sure take your “speeds” as a win but it’s the speeds and obstacles. You can make the tracks more mellow without making them faster it’s not hard to figure out.
Motocross has families losing kids, dads, or life altering injuries regularly.
Flat track doesn’t.
I’m not remotely saying let’s turn moto into flat track , but more natural gp style tracks, less sx influence tracks.
Hope life is treating you well Jeff 👊
You lost me at 30 minute motos.
No fucking way I'm racing 30 minutes in 110 degree Texas weather.
Big stage: “Americans can’t ride in the mud”.
Local track: “it sprinkled three days ago practice/race cancelled”.
There’s winter right?
What’s the alternative? 4 lap motos? Why bother? How tough are we? Other athletes do their marathons, mud runs, fitness events they aren’t 8 minutes. 4 lap races are a joke.
A big problem is most modern tracks are built on flat land and truck in dirt to create the track. This lends it's self to a more SX type track as you can't do much else than build jumps.
A natural terrain track offers more diversity of natural obstacles that keep it from getting too fast while still being challenging enough to excite the average rider.
I'm old but i still like big jumps and going fast just not into taking a hospital trip cos I missed something due to a minor mistake. I don't want to have to ride perfect to survive.
There will always be risk no matter the track style. That's why we ride the risk is part of the excitement that draws us in. It's the degree of risk that makes a difference and that has to take into account the skill and experience of the rider so it's a bit tough to build to suit all.
I tried to build a track that I would enjoy and that would be challenging for pros and beginners and it has worked well.
All skill levels have found their pace and have fun knowing there is nothing crazy to deal with.
I'm not saying everyone should build a track as that's not feasible but if you can it's a great experience. In 2001 I was looking to get out of Phx and after selling my house in 2004 I started looking for some land. I fortunately found a piece of property i could afford that allowed me to move to and build a very nice GP style track.
Then the complaint would be dust, not noise.
I'm not sure about 30 minute motos, for everyone as in my opinion wrecks happen when riders are fatigued. More forgiving jumps or not. 15-20 minute motos for amateur/weekend riders sounds good enough. Maybe for the vet expert level classes.
I think a large part that is hurting the growth of the sport is the cost in general. Want proper boots, helmets, pads etc, easily 1k+.
New dirtbikes, even waiting a year for a leftover will run you at or under 10k for most full sized bikes. Hell, Husky is charging 6k msrp for a 65 these days. Of course you can get a KX or YZ for cheaper MSRP, but I've seen dealers add $1,800 in fees and taxes for a YZ65. Dealer fee, freight, assembly, docs etc.
Of course can save some going used, but never know what surprises you'll have.
I think you don't even need to race to grow the sport/viewership. You just need the next generation riding bikes. But the amount of tracks in Florida, for example, that have closed in the past 15 years is quite a bit, for how big Florida is at in general for motocross. It can be 1-2+ hours easily for the local track, and if it's too crowded or crazy jumps, then 2-3 hours for the next track.
Years back I had a buddy who had 30 acres that we built a track on 1-2 acres. Took months to QA/QC get the berms, jumps all at a decent level. I get why some tracks charge what they do nowadays between insurance and operating, but at $40-50 a head just for practice laps it adds up when you're getting kids involved too.
Pit Row
i laughed when i saw that too......
you ever stop to think that it's the vets who pay the bills?
Is this AI?
Compare fatalities in professional flat track and pro motocross and get back to me.
Why exactly? I have no interest in anything flat track and this isn’t a discussion about pro racing. This is about improving local tracks and local racing.
Interesting thoughts and discussion here. On the safety aspect, I largely agree with the OP. Also the point about the prevalence of man-made jumps on otherwise flat MX tracks is a good one. Bikes are clearly faster and more capable than they were in the 70s when I started racing. Tracks are very different, and serious injuries (requiring immediate emergency care/ambulance trips to the ER) are way up from that time.
The constant dilemma for track owners is making their tracks safe but still exciting. Excessively fast tracks are a problem, but I do believe that large, fast gap jumps and oddly-contoured jump faces and landings are the bigger issue. I don't know what you see at your local tracks, but I rarely see an EMT call for a crash on a fast straight, but instead see nearly all of them for crashes in or after large, man-made jumps.
FWIW I did the math about a year ago on the MSRP of a brand new YZ125 vs the early 80s and it has basically stayed consistent with inflation. But for some reason, everyone wants a CRF450 WE or similar and then wants to bitch about how expensive the sport is.
Agreed. And of those crashes about half of them are from coming up short, a little sideways, bouncing off the short abrupt landing, landing the opposite way and then hard crash.
If the landing was rounded and tapered and the jumps weren’t as oversized as they are, those type of crashes all but disappear.
Everyone else just gets to race for free then?
Here is Grok’s AI Answer:
Motocross (Supercross & Pro MX)
• Pro-level deaths are relatively rare in recent decades. Wikipedia’s list of motorcycle racing deaths shows only a handful in major AMA/Australian series over 20+ years: e.g., Jason Ciarletta (2004 Supercross), Josh Lichtle (2011 AMA MX, heat exhaustion), Andrew McFarlane (2010 Australian MX), and Joel Evans (2025 Australian ProMX).
• Broader motocross (including amateurs/youth at tracks) has higher numbers. A 2025 USA TODAY investigation found at least 158 youth (under 18/19) deaths on dirt bikes/motocross tracks since 2000 (~6+ per year), with nearly 2/3 at tracks. This made it the deadliest youth sport by their analysis (far above football). Many involve head/chest trauma or inconsistent safety.
• Pro riders benefit from better medical presence, gear, and track standards, reducing fatalities despite high crash/injury rates (jumps, whoops, big impacts).
Flat Track (American Flat Track / AMA Grand National)
• Historically higher fatality counts, especially pre-2000s, due to high speeds on ovals, pack racing, and sliding crashes. The Dairyland Classic memorial lists dozens of pro/AMA-sanctioned flat track deaths over decades (many in the 1960s–1990s).
• Recent pro examples (2016–2022): Kyle McGrane & Charlotte Kainz (2016 Santa Rosa Mile), Jamison Minor (2017), Alec Muth (2018), Ryan Varnes (2022). Multiple incidents in short periods drew safety concerns during AFT’s resurgence.
• Flat track sees more “multi-rider pileups” and thoracic/spinal injuries from side impacts or run-overs.
Comparison & Context
• Motocross has more publicized youth/amateur deaths and high injury volume (concussions, fractures) from big air and technical tracks. Pro fatalities appear lower frequency in top series.
• Flat track has a longer historical toll in pro ranks due to close-quarters racing at speed, though modern AFT has improved safety (barriers, medical). Recent clusters (e.g., 2016–2018) raised alarms about young pros.
• No clear “per race” or “per rider” rate exists publicly. Both are dangerous; motocross risks come from height/speed impacts, flat track from traffic and low-sliding crashes. Overall motorcycle racing fatalities are low compared to street riding, but elite competition pushes limits.
• Factors like field size (motocross gates are larger), track evolution, and reporting affect numbers. Pre-modern safety eras (no air fences, basic helmets) saw far more deaths in both.
Bottom line: Flat track shows more documented pro deaths historically and in some recent clusters, while motocross has a heavier youth toll. Both demand respect—modern gear, training, and rules have reduced risks, but they’re still high-consequence sports. Specific rider names or eras can get more targeted stats if needed.
Because they can't be throat punched online. And a lot of keyboard warriors desperately need to experience a throat punch occasionally.
Hey guys, it's a voluntary public forum.
You have the power to ask questions and share your own opinion about the topic at hand.
The tough guy routine seems like you don't have anything valuable to contribute to the discussion; but seek validation so you're fishing for up votes.
How do you know wrecks are more common when riders are fatigued? Are there long motos somewhere that you are using as your point of comparision?
The GNCC guys should all be dead after their 180 minute races?
Post a reply to: Grow the sport? Fix local tracks and racing.