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That sounds like a lot of rider stuff...
3rd in the Prow class for a 35+ rider is Great, good job. But how big where the jumps that you wouldn’t clear them good on a 125 ? In that case it’s the bike. But yeah everyone is different on what they like. I like a stiff fork with a plush shock with slow rebound . I like to keep the back wheel on the ground driving & try to manual where I can. Unless I,m jumping . Lol
Your preferred bike is a yz250 and your comfortable on it so a 450 isn't going to make a difference? I can't ride a 2 stroke to save my life so I am far slower and uncomfortable on one. Just like guys rave about 350s, different strokes for different folks is mainly the point I'm making there's not a blanket answer that the bike is only 10% of the equation there's far more to it.
The jumps aren't all that big, slow technical track. I think there was a kid on a 65 jumping most things but I can't ride a 125 so the bike definitely makes a difference.
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Indian not the arrow.
No
You ever try to not crossthread a seat bolt or handlebar clamp bolt on a kawasuki?
I mean technically speaking if it was 90% rider wouldn’t an elite guy be able to get 4th with no bike at all? 🤓
There is comfort, sure. I just don't think there's a magic bike that will make somebody suddenly faster than his previous "fastest self." Sure, some bikes would make you slower or less likely to rise your own potential.
Maybe the 10% is more like 15%, or even 25%. It is still more about the rider than the bike.
That's the fallacy of any split %. Do the top 10 riders range from 0% to 90% in that equation, or 89% to 90%? How much does the 10% of the bike vary?
With the amount of testing Broc Tickle is doing on triple clamps it seems clear to me that what appears to be splitting hairs is significant in feel to the riders. At the "sharp end" as Malin likes to say, chasing a feeling is a very real thing.
You describe what wasn't a great bike in stock form.... like the mods on there have turned it into lammy's title winning 96'.
Conversely, if it is more than 10% bike, wouldn't an elite bike beat more than 4 of the fast 40 with no rider at all?
The fact remains that in racing trim, the slowest or worst set up 450 in the main event is 99% as capable as any of the works bikes. OK, let's call it 98%.
Take Eli, Hunter or Kenny and make them trade bikes with Kevin Moranz or Cade Clason. The elite guys still land in the top 10. Guys who qualify from the LCQ improve a few spots but not many.
It's funny talking about this rider vs bike ratio has triggered a memory from one of the great outdoors movies. I think it was jeff spencer?? Was training andrew short at the time and he was explaining how moto is so hard because it's the perfect balance of rider and machine. He said cycling was all about the athlete whereas car racing was all about the car but that he thought moto was that fine balance in-between the two.
So from the weekends race the average winning lap time was around a 51, 2% off that pace is a 52... You honestly think tomac would only be a second slower on Moranz KTM 450?
If you give his bike straight off, just bars, levers, foot pegs, sag, throttle play and so on could throw him 2-4sec off easily.
If you allow them to fully customize that, what is left? Engine. Chassi. Suspension. I don't think Tomac would be within 2 sec on APs bike. Maybe within 3. He wouldn't be able to turn it (or at least old AP setup)
But its not correct to say it's 99% rider. Because that last 0.5sec (1%) the riders can't make up for typically. That's why you see pretty much all riders searching for settings. If they could just "ride around it" all the time with a change in "attitude" or racing lines, they would have systematically figured it out a long time ago.
Jett isn't here even. You would see everyone one of them fiddling even more if he was, looking for those extra tenth. Even Hunter that seem to ride around it.
Kenny is a great starter, very strong mentally. Starts are all mental people say. He is still going between clutch setups and engine mapping right now to find something.
It's more bike then what people think.
This is my point, Tomac can be 2% off on his own bike just by the the clickers or sag not being perfect let alone throwing him on someone elses bike!
OK, let's call it 4% off and two seconds. Yes, I doubt his works KTM is good for more than about two seconds for a rider of Eli's caliber.
Let's even extrapolate to 10%. That's five seconds. Moranz's qualifying time was 54.951, Tomac's was 50.962. There's your five seconds. I'd be willing to bet those five seconds are not all bike, either. (Eli is a better rider.)
Pit Row
Yeah 100% from the hit , it’s a Hyper Rush through the mid to 12k. Hyper shift on the mid it’s faster to cover ground or rev it out. I let A riders take it for a spin on a hard pack track, they said it’s hard to ride. You hv to carry momentum, it’s a hyper quick torque ripper, Great for starts. Probably makes me 80% faster. I run C12 in bulk . Sounds similar to a Factory Husky from late 90,s but more bark & hyper mid chatter. It’s fun as hell.
Tomac was 3% slower in the main than in qualifying on his own bike on the same track. Moranz was 1% slower in the main than qualifying. But, I'm sure throwing Tomac on Moranz bike would barely make a difference....
This rider is pretty good for not practicing in 10 years
So we all agree now...
A really good rider could beat everyone on a Hodaka Super Rat
Yeah, they should. Didn’t Short podium SLC on a stock(ish) 450 in 2012 or 2013 after Larry Brooks and Chaparral left him without a ride?
Edit: A pair of 6ths at Oakland and A3 in 2013.
It's the joint. Beastie Boys.
Eli Tomac is a pretty good rider. If he was on a 1978 hodaka 125 and I'm on a 2022 yz125?
Im pretty good, Eli is likely beating me.
Think about it
Kinda already happened. Remember when Jerry Robin smoked most of everyone at Loretta’s on an ‘85 CR in 2013?
https://www.motosport.com/blog/profile-jerry-robin-that-guy-who-rode-th…
Yeah but Bro is saying an elite rider with no bike at all. Not a stock bike, but no bike.
Which is goofy shit because, then they're not an elite rider. They're not a rider at all with no bike.
Perfect example I think a 92-97 cr125 , 04-07 cr125, 02-07 cr250 are competitive bikes in AM racing , local level for sure. And it’s not that the rider is superior. The new bikes are more about making it easier to ride. I think there Marketing gimmicks. During a race your racing & it’s a blast . For sure you’re not thinking about percentages . Go race you,ll see where you fit in. End of your race everyone has something. Like I need to practice my rt rutted turns etc. the reason I bring it up , is because I think guys want to race but think they need a new bike.
Probably
Didn't the PulpMX Holeshit shitout answer the Bike vs Rider question?
Post a reply to: Its the bike