Kids - empty threat follow thru ratio (sorry lappergate - parenting question)

I've been careful not to make the punishment something that hurts me too. In other words, I want to go to the races, so that's not the thing I take away. The kid's telephone, though? Oh heck yeah, he doesn't need that and it doesn't change my life one bit. 

I missed race's when I was a kid for not doing good in school and I'm still pissed at my parents for it

Let me put it this way. I was 10 at the time. Riding was what my dad and I did together just about every weekend. I got a progress report with a D in one class for whatever reason. A bunch of my dad’s friends were coming into town and we were all supposed to go riding together. Well, my progress report showed up Thursday and the only thing my dad took from me was my bike and going riding with him and his friends. Didn’t get the bike back until my grade went up to a B. 

That was the one and ONLY time my bike was ever taken away from me and I made sure I never let it happen again.  

Stop making empty threats and actually take it away from him. You’ll learn it either means a lot to your child or you’ll learn it’s not a big deal and you move on to taking away other things they care more about. 

Father of 2, now age 35 & 38.  From my perspective your last sentence summed it up. Threats mean nothing to him because history has taught him you'll cave in. Time to follow through, it sucks to be "The Asshole" but fuck it your job is father, not friend. My advice would be follow through. "Look you either do these simple tasks we've asked you to do or we're both staying home and doing yardwork or cleaning the garage or some other unfun chores". And the time is now, at 13 he's going to start being rebellious, the longer you don't follow through the more he's going to not take you seriously.  Here's a thought that might help because I know it's not easy.  Think about every stand up honest genuine hard working person you know, everyone I know that fits that description tells me the same thing, "My parents didn't let me get away with shit"  The first couple times it's going to suuu-uuuuck, he's going to be pissed, you're going to be a combo of pissed and feeling like an asshole, but you gotta think long term and suck it up.  I'd put money on it only having to happen a couple times and he'll get it.  Just my $.02  Go Dad go !  

You're not helping 😄😄😄😄

If he’s 13 and knows your words are hollow you’re probably already toast. The bar is set as soon as junior understands the words coming out of your mouth. By no means am I a perfect parent but my kids both knew when I or my wife spoke, there was bite behind the bark. Good luck, if you act quickly and decisively you may still be able to turn the tide. Parenting is the hardest most important job on earth and there’s no days off. 

The idea of not being able to ride and race was the only thing that kept me on track in school from ages 11-17. 

3.0 GPA was required as well as chores around the house, and I knew there was no negotiating if I didn't follow through on my end of the deal. 

As an adult in the real world you have expectations to meet, and if you don't meet them you don't get to live the lifestyle you want and do the things you want. I think it's important you let your kid experience that no matter how much it hurts you. 

Find out why they're not delivering, no threats needed. My kids are the worst version of themselves around my wife and me, but their teachers, aunt's, grandparents, and friends parents all tell me how awesome they are. Sometimes you get an idea that your kid isn't trying hard, but they may just be relaxing around you because it's their safe space. Also, if they have ADHD like my kids and I have, long term threats don't work because of the now/ not now way our brains work. I don't like it, but I do take away electronics if they're not doing what they're supposed to do. I can lock devices from my phone immediately so there is a now consequence. Telling either of them they won't be able to go riding with me in 5 days wouldn't work because that's not a now problem. 

For our daughter it was electronics and if she really pushed it we'd threaten to take her bedroom door off. I never had to go that far but man did the threat of taking that door off get her motivated. That was my wife's idea and boy did it work. For the boy it was wheels, anything with wheels, no tricycle, no big wheel, no bicycle, no dirt bike, no skateboard. The skateboard would always get results, that was his favorite "Wheeled" toy. (To this day actually)  It sucks but at some point you gotta be "The bad guy" 

I couldn’t touch my bike for multiple summers because I had bad grades in school. 

Doesn't sound like it worked if it was multiple summers... This is why I'm more of a find out why they're not delivering. I could give 2 shits about grades, I graduated high school with a 2.3 gpa, never took the act or sat. I got into a jr college no problem and then into OSU and KSU. I really clicked in college and my GPA went to 3.6. I hated k-12 so I'm not concerned with grades as much as I am how good of a person they turn out to be. 

The freedom of riding is what made me keep my grades decent enough to graduate. My parents were more pissed that I was apathetic and hardly trying in school, not that I wasn’t capable of getting better grades. There were weekends I missed riding because I got bad grades or didn’t turn stuff in. Racing and riding was the only thing that I looked forward to and enjoyed. 

I have an older brother who was actually a lot faster than me on dirt bikes, and probably would’ve been a really good racer had he applied himself. Instead, he took the route of partying and the bikes got withheld, he eventually dropped out 3 months before graduating and fucked his life up pretty good from his early 20s and it’s still following him into his early 30s. He’s made some family dinners really awkward by saying that the only reason he is the way he is, is because my parents didn’t let him race and gave everything to me instead. 

I wish I would’ve done all the fun stuff he did in high school. I did plenty of fun/dumb teenager stuff, but I always walked a very tight line because I knew all it took was one fuck up for those bikes to be posted on Facebook marketplace the next day. The older I get the more I realize how important moto and the lessons it taught me are. 

There is some good advice here & for what its worth…I 100% agree with Sumdood!

My son is 32 now and all through his childhood, I would ask him…WHO exactly is my first supervisor…He would stumble around trying to remember MY bosses name…I would cut him off telling him that I’M my first supervisor! It is MY job to supervisor MYSELF and that I do NOT and should NOT need whoever my actual supervisor is to babysit me or have to tell me, what time to show up for work, what tools I need to have with me, to always have my gear in order etc! That is MY job & IF I supervise myself, my boss & I can just get our work done & be pals BUT if I can’t be a man & supervise myself…I would leave my supervisor NO choice but to SUPERVISE ME…and I would start suffering the consequences, lost hours, lost pay, maybe even a lost JOB! 
I told him regularly that he had the very same choice, as I was here to be his FATHER first & his riding buddy/pal secondary to that.

He alone had the decision to make and the reality was HE could choose to supervise himself, making sure he was pulling his load, from the most basic crap, like brushing his teeth, flushing the toilet, (wtf is it w/teenage boys & flushing turds? 🥵) keeping his room in order, maintaining his grades, helping with his responsibilities around the house (trash detail etc) and he and I could just be riding buddies & pals OR if he could NOT supervise himself, he would leave me (& his mother!) NO CHOICE but to be his supervisor FIRST!

It was tough at times BUT like others have said, he came to realize that words & actions have consequences, and HE alone had the power to determine what the outcome would be! 
There is NO shame in setting fair & reasonable expectations and holding him accountable! He will have to learn it at some point, much better to learn it from dear ol’ Dad, even if it requires you having to be a hard-ass a time or two! Way better to miss a weekend of riding now than learn a HARD lesson from a Boss that NEEDS a reliable/dependable employee that he can count on when the going gets a little tough later on!

And the happy bonus??! Just WAIT until the day comes that you HEAR your SON saying/passing along the EXACT same thing to your grandkids that you said to HIM while trying to get them to straighten up & fly right! It’ll put a tear in your eye & a lump in yer throat, when your Son tells you, you were the BEST Dad ever and your advice while hard at the time, was EXACTLY right! 🥹

Good Luck with your conundrum! 
We are ALL hoping you find the right path to a resolution & your Son can see that you’re only trying to do whats in HIS best interest! 😎 👍❗️

Dad of 6, 5 girls 1 boy. Hate to sound like that guy but my kids know if I say it I follow through with it. I was always told sometimes you have to throw the couch through the front window. (Not literally) my youngest is now 22 and they are successful in their careers.  

Make strategic consequences (not consequences blurted out in a moment of frustration and anger)...and then follow through on them 100% of the time.  (strategic consequences are things that are of significant-but non-essential-value to your child, they don't hurt you, and are things you can actually follow through with...My favorite strategic consequence is the phone...my kids know I'm looking for an excuse to take that thing away from them, and they'll know I'll do it.)...

Nothing is hurting your kid more than hearing a consequence and being conditioned that it will just go away if they whine/cry/ignore it/complain/beg plead long/loud enough...that will work at home...but one day, its not going to work, and "in the world" (Not at home) it's a lesson that will be taught, and its a much harder lesson to learn there. 

And he's 13...it's almost too late...when he's 16, 17, 18...it's only going to get much much much worse for you at home.  

So your kid a favor (one he will thank you for later) and follow through every single time.  It usually only takes one or two times...kids are smart.  

He might be mad at you for a minute...but you're his parent first, not his friend.  He'll get over it.  And your relationship will be much better because he will respect you more rather than looking at you as a push over or someone he can manipulate.   

Very few places you can have these conversations anymore. My sons oldest is going to be 3 in August, so he's in the terrible twos phase right now. He's starting to have temper tantrums, starting to hit etc., testing mom and dad damn near daily. The other day my son said he had to give him a whack on the butt and put him in his room until he screamed, cried and finally gave up and fell asleep. He (my son) said he felt like shit and was worried his kid would hate him lol. I reassured him by saying do you remember getting spanked as a kid ? "No not really" But you always knew that me and Mom weren't fucking around when we raised our voices correct ? "Yes"  That's because we spanked you when you were 2-1/2 till probably 3-3-1/2. Then one day it clicked that Mom and Dad don't fuck around, then a few years later you didn't even know why you knew, but you knew. Same thing with him. Sure enough the next day I asked how his son was doing after his traumatic afternoon the day before. He said he was acting like he didn't remember it and was extra glad to see him when he got home from work. They went in the back yard and he pounded out some laps on his Stacyc. I know a lot of new parents are anti spanking like it's going to traumatize them or teach them to be violent, I say bullshit sometimes it's all they understand.  This new trend of "Explain to them why what they did is bad and how do you think it made the other person feel" blah blah blah. If I didn't get my ass beat for doing some dumb ass mean shit I considered that getting off scot free. Oohh I got a talking to how scary.....😆 Sorry if I sound old school but fuck that noise, sometimes you gotta whack em. It's just a fact. 

The best thing my dad EVER said to me was "im not your friend... Im your father. You will understand this someday".

I was turning 25 (now 47) and it hit me how hard it was for him to punish me. I think it hurt him more than me to take my racing away but he did. 

That to me is the true test of a father. The ability to to the hard stuff when it matters.

Good luck and be consistent. 

I've got 2 kids, one boy one girl and they both ride. My daughter is an angel, good grades and well behaved.

My son on the other hand struggles with school. I don't care so much about his grades as long as he tries but I do care about his behaviour. I had told him that if he got in trouble at school he wouldn't get to ride that weekend. One Thursday I get a call from the school and had to go pick him up for misbehaving. When I picked him up I told him there would be no riding that weekend. Anyway, Saturday morning rolls around and he comes in a 5:30am to tell me its motocross day. I told him he had been naughty and we weren't going. Little did he know that the track had a shit tonne of rain overnight and was closed but it worked for a while. 

I had to do this one more time but this time his sister and I went riding and he had to sit there and watch us. I could see it killing him but he didn't complain and he learn't his lesson.

After each time his behaviour improved, he's 13 now and a pretty good kid

My daughter's 10. Ground her, whoop her (by todays standards), remove everything from her room, she dont care. Last year she cared because I took her 85 away for a month. She got to watch me ride a couple times. I felt a little bummed she wasnt riding, but i didn't show that and she learned a lesson, so it was a tough win for us (parents). 

Pretty unpopular opinion, it seems nowadays.

But the other hand isn't a fist. It's a strong hand of discipline, sorely lacking with too many.

I'm old enough that when I was a kid, child therapy was taking an ass-whipping with a belt and being sent out to mow the yard.

Crying while mowing ultimately served me quite well in the five decades since -- both in life, and in racing motorcycles.

Think of it, if you can or if you will, like kids learning that... You make a mistake. You crash. You get hurt. You get back up, dust yourself off... and get on with it.

My boy is six. If he’s being a shit head mom says he’s not racing. I tell him if he’s being a shit head his ass will be coming to the races but there won’t be an iPad to watch on the drive. There won’t be a Stacyc or bicycle coming with. And he will be watching all his buddies race and his dirt bike will be at home. Has worked for us. I haven’t had to follow through with it yet. 

He can get pretty mouthy so I keep a plastic syringe with vinegar in it in the kitchen and one at the shop. I think he’d rather lose a finger than get vinegar in the mouth. Last week he got lippy and told me that he’ll just run and hide. I said well son I will eventually find you and then I might be mad. So sure you can go run and hide or you can be a man and get your ass on the chair and open up. Either way you’re getting vinegar. So choose wisely. He chose the chair. 

More parents need to look to Brian Deegan for inspiration.  He has raised three children to be respectful, hard working, good natured kids on their own path of success as adults.

Fixed it for you:

Look to Brian Deegan. He has raised three children.

A few things to consider…

- kids will absolutely know your pattern if you fail to correct undesirable behaviour.

- if riding together is something that’s important to you both then maybe choose another punishment.  Something that is specific to him.  That way he can still suffer the negative consequences but you aren’t compromising important bonding time.

- this depends on the particular behaviours but if it’s a situation that allows some judgement then my approach is to deliver the punishment just often enough that they know the threat is real but not so often that it becomes oppressive and they feel it’s always a no win situation.

- finally make sure the behaviour is something they have discretion and control over.  Eg school grades at a certain level may not be realistic or achievable.

this 120% if adhd involved. they've got to have space to own it and accomplish it how they want and the +/- feedback needs to be immediate. pathological demand avoidance means they will never take their grades seriously or whatever it is if they don't see the purpose and they think it's all for you and not them. give him space to develop a sense of pride in taking care of his own affairs. 

Another broken record trying to fix things.

why was hailie so slow in arca at phoenix? the car?

“Make strategic consequences (not consequences blurted out in a moment of frustration and anger)”

Hugely important, in my opinion. 

I don’t remember too many times where I punished my kids while I was still angry or upset. Growing up, the things that always ‘got my attention’ was when my parents, coaches, teachers, etc would get quieter but deliberate in what they were saying. It was always a trigger for me that what they were telling me at that moment was something that I’d better pay attention to and heed well. My kids have turned out the same way. 

My wife used to make more impulsive threats. I used to tell her that she went too quickly to the ‘nuclear option’. I tried pointing out to her that she never really followed through with it and she’d be better off choosing a ‘smaller’ but easier to follow through punishment, but it took her awhile to come around to it. 

I would bet that if you asked my youngest, who has had the most behavioral issues, what his worst punishments were as a child, he’d say that it was having to wait for the alarm to go off so he would be able to stop standing in the corner. 

It sucks but sometimes you gotta shoot a hostage 

I plan on doing the same with my kid if he acts up. If it wasn't for racing I wouldn't have graduated and probably be in jail.