Panic Button for Chase/Kawi?

2/25/2026 6:14am
Spoonguy wrote:
Here's a take, maybe Chase isn't as good as we thought? He does well on Honda, leaves, Lawrences do better. He does well on KTM, leaves...

Here's a take, maybe Chase isn't as good as we thought? He does well on Honda, leaves, Lawrences do better. He does well on KTM, leaves, 33 yr old Eli does arguably better. Eli arguably looks better than he did on Yamaha. Maybe put Chase on an ordinary bike, he is ordinary? Perhaps he wasn't as good as we all thought, maybe?

revkev151 wrote:
*Jett has done better on the Honda, and I think it's pretty unanimous that he's a generational talent. Eli doing this well on a KTM is...

*Jett has done better on the Honda, and I think it's pretty unanimous that he's a generational talent. Eli doing this well on a KTM is a surprise but he is also the second winningest rider in sx ever, so not the most fair comparison there either. 

I don't think Chase is as good as Eli or Jett in the long term and falls more in the Roczen category, where he has crazy speed but gets bit my mistakes and when another rider gets in his head. Wins races and even championships when things fall his way but in the highest pressure situations against another rider I wouldn't put my money on him. 

Also, he took a year to adjust to the KTM, so I'm not worried too much about his results this year, although im not paying his salary. He seems like someone who needs the bike to be EXACTLY what he wants it to be and that takes time. I just think there's a very wide gap between Eli and Jett and "ordinary" and he falls within that gap.

Yeah I'm not sure why the sky is falling because of Chase's reaults thus far. Didn't most of us call this? The first year on Kawi...

Yeah I'm not sure why the sky is falling because of Chase's reaults thus far. Didn't most of us call this? The first year on Kawi, at least indoors, would be a thow away. His average finish through 7 rounds in '24 was 4.85. His average finish through 7 rounds for '26 is 5.14. And I'd argue his win this year was more "real" than his win in '24 that came from a mudder. This is the same ole Chase. Talk of him getting out of his Kawi contract 7 races into it is wild

Chris, Spoonguy, rational thinking and actual stats don't fly around here. Wild speculation and lack of critical thinking rule this place unfortunately. 

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Justthefacts
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2/25/2026 6:29am
aees wrote:
Just went through Lewis interview with Tickle.IDKM. Kawi has a cultural problem. They are into the second year of a major cluster fuck, and Tickle isn't...

Just went through Lewis interview with Tickle.

IDKM. Kawi has a cultural problem. They are into the second year of a major cluster fuck, and Tickle isn't allowed to suggest how to fix the issues. Only to ride what the team serves him and provide feedback.

He also said, if it was my bike and I could do and suggest what I wanted, I would have it dialed in 3 days and be done with it 😄

You can of course interpret things he said in many ways with this in a vaccum, but adding up everything it's they need to make changes to that team. Definitions of insanity? Kawi right now.

U happen to have a link to that interview.  Have been waiting for it since they spoke about it coming out. 

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philG
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2/25/2026 7:32am
MXracr157 wrote:
Can't really "subtract" stiffness from the frame as I understand the rules.  Teams can add material or bracing but cannot remove material or portions of the...

Can't really "subtract" stiffness from the frame as I understand the rules.  Teams can add material or bracing but cannot remove material or portions of the frame.  Now, I guess you can "Subtract" stiffness by changing engine hangers, so there is that.

JazzyJJ wrote:
Do you know how closely they check that? Maybe take away a little material here and there on the inside on the frame, would anyone ever...

Do you know how closely they check that? Maybe take away a little material here and there on the inside on the frame, would anyone ever know?

truck wrote:
I seem to remember Jeremy Albrecht talking about bringing something from the Nascar world that can measure material thickness, but for the most part it seems...

I seem to remember Jeremy Albrecht talking about bringing something from the Nascar world that can measure material thickness, but for the most part it seems frame is visual inspection and measurement. Surely if a team was motivated enough they could find a way to reduce the strength of the frame in ways that wouldn't be noticed but doubt that kind of trial and error and ruining frames along the way is in the budget for most. 

You can measure it all with an ultrasonic thickness gauge, i have one on my machine that will measure internal wall thicknesses and all sorts of stuff that you can only get to one side of. Not hard to come by as a manual unit , mine is on a CMM so is programmable and fully automated. 

Back in the day when Ilmor was building their MotoGP bike, it was a  partnership , between Ilmor, and Suter, where we would provide the engine, and Suter the chassis. 

The bike turned out to be unrideable, for reasons nobody could fathom, suspension tuning did nothing and the riders were lost. 

We did a post mortem on the chassis after the funding was pulled and Suter had made it out of 1.2mm material instead of 1.6mm , which they had used on 250 stuff , but it wasnt man enough to handle the HP from the 800.   Nobody checked it . Millions down the drain.  

 

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2/25/2026 7:41am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2026 7:41am
Pop Shmoke wrote:

Pc hasnt been having a lot of luck lately tho.

BS12 wrote:

The PC bike's never been the problem. 

I don’t think the PC team has a cultural issue with management like the factory Kawasaki team does. Mitch has always been tight on bike setup and changes, but I don’t think Mitch is afraid to admit that he might not be right all the time and someone may have a better idea than him. The guy he brought over from TRD to head up his 4 stroke development in the early days is a good example. Also letting some guys make the change to Fat Bars. 

Mitch’s choice for riders really has made me scratch my head in the last 5 or so years though. It will always be my favorite team, but I really don’t know what he’s doing with some of the guys he keeps around. 

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The Shop

kawasa84
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2/25/2026 7:55am
MXracr157 wrote:
Can't really "subtract" stiffness from the frame as I understand the rules.  Teams can add material or bracing but cannot remove material or portions of the...

Can't really "subtract" stiffness from the frame as I understand the rules.  Teams can add material or bracing but cannot remove material or portions of the frame.  Now, I guess you can "Subtract" stiffness by changing engine hangers, so there is that.

Didn't KTM remove a support bracket or gussett from the frame for Webbs bike that Marvin kept in place? Maybe my memory on that is not what I thought it was?

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kawasa84
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2/25/2026 8:06am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2026 8:08am
MXracr157 wrote:
Can't really "subtract" stiffness from the frame as I understand the rules.  Teams can add material or bracing but cannot remove material or portions of the...

Can't really "subtract" stiffness from the frame as I understand the rules.  Teams can add material or bracing but cannot remove material or portions of the frame.  Now, I guess you can "Subtract" stiffness by changing engine hangers, so there is that.

kawasa84 wrote:
Didn't KTM remove a support bracket or gussett from the frame for Webbs bike that Marvin kept in place? Maybe my memory on that is not...

Didn't KTM remove a support bracket or gussett from the frame for Webbs bike that Marvin kept in place? Maybe my memory on that is not what I thought it was?

Yes, my memory was right. During the 2021 season, Webb had the frame support bracket removed according to RacerX. But researching further than the RacerX article, Webb actually spent his own money to buy a stock 2021 KTM450 and had Carlos Rivera put his factory motor and suspension in the "stock" KTM chassis. Which did not have the "factory chassis" support bracket. After 9 rounds of not making the podium with the chassis gussett, Webb immediately returned to form and made the podium the very next race on a chassis without the support gussett. So you are right by what the rulebook says. I'm right that my memory isn't going quite yet, because RacerX reported it as the gussett was removed from the frame Webb was running and not right away that he was running a stock chassis.

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kawasa84
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2/25/2026 8:25am
Delusional. Lots of plumbers and carpenters here. Argue with a wall.

Delusional. Lots of plumbers and carpenters here. Argue with a wall.

IMG 0548 3

This brings up a dilemma. I saw Jeff Emig's hometown listed as Independence, MO?  Yet I know he was born and lived in Kansas City, Kansas. I have a close friend who was also a coworker of mine too, who was classmates with Jeff in grade school and even showed me his yearbook many years ago with Jeff. 

Maybe he listed Independence, (suburb to the KC metro) because he lived there for a time also?

Pop Shmoke
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2/25/2026 8:34am Edited Date/Time 2/25/2026 8:34am
Pop Shmoke wrote:

Pc hasnt been having a lot of luck lately tho.

BS12 wrote:

The PC bike's never been the problem. 

Definitely agree, but if pc takes over 450 then mitch chooses the riders too. Its mitch’s rider selection that keeps biting him with injuries and age.

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NicNak
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2/25/2026 9:12am
Delusional. Lots of plumbers and carpenters here. Argue with a wall.

Delusional. Lots of plumbers and carpenters here. Argue with a wall.

IMG 0548 3
kawasa84 wrote:
This brings up a dilemma. I saw Jeff Emig's hometown listed as Independence, MO?  Yet I know he was born and lived in Kansas City, Kansas...

This brings up a dilemma. I saw Jeff Emig's hometown listed as Independence, MO?  Yet I know he was born and lived in Kansas City, Kansas. I have a close friend who was also a coworker of mine too, who was classmates with Jeff in grade school and even showed me his yearbook many years ago with Jeff. 

Maybe he listed Independence, (suburb to the KC metro) because he lived there for a time also?

I mean dudney is from iowa not texas but they show texas as his hometown. I think it's whatever they tell them.

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ryanxmx31
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2/25/2026 10:44am

Kawasaki is one of the only ones not adding material to there frame they have a soft frame according to a lot of magazine test riders, maybe the riders are feeling a different things because the frame is flexing in various conditions. Honda has found this out in the last few years as you can see the frames are braced again with added steering dampeners, to me Kawasaki is just behind development in this area 

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Bark it
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2/25/2026 11:51am

I remember reading a comment (maybe on this forum) that the poster said “ he knew some vet pros and none of them liked the kawi. When pushed at that level it didn’t handle well.”  But lots of average riders like the handling.  Frame flex, geometry, or both? Fahie did say they added bracing to the frame and swingarm around the time they were switching to some PC parts.

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2/25/2026 11:57am
Pop Shmoke wrote:

Pc hasnt been having a lot of luck lately tho.

BS12 wrote:

The PC bike's never been the problem. 

Pop Shmoke wrote:

Definitely agree, but if pc takes over 450 then mitch chooses the riders too. Its mitch’s rider selection that keeps biting him with injuries and age.

Mitch doesn’t necessarily pick all the riders. There are some riders he’s told to sign. 

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chasetwo79
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2/25/2026 1:18pm

The bike handles fine. It's the engine. It makes its best power being wound out. It's different than most 450s. It doesn't like to be short shifted or lugged at all. And if you're a rider who hasn't historically lived in the highest of RPMs, you're not used to the vibration a lot of that can bring through the frame and it tires you out faster. It's why it's a great bike for average riders and if you're a top 5 percent rider you're going to have to work harder on it in ways 

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truck
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2/25/2026 3:08pm
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ohh_454
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2/25/2026 10:54pm

By who? Corporate Kawi?

Corporate Kawi told Mitch not to sign Marchbanks for ‘26, Mitch said he deserves a ride and will pay him out of his own pocket (corporate kawi pays Mitch’s riders), Mitch signs Marchbanks again, then corporate Kawi offers Marchbanks the 450 ride lol 

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Tyler D
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2/25/2026 11:45pm
chasetwo79 wrote:
The bike handles fine. It's the engine. It makes its best power being wound out. It's different than most 450s. It doesn't like to be short...

The bike handles fine. It's the engine. It makes its best power being wound out. It's different than most 450s. It doesn't like to be short shifted or lugged at all. And if you're a rider who hasn't historically lived in the highest of RPMs, you're not used to the vibration a lot of that can bring through the frame and it tires you out faster. It's why it's a great bike for average riders and if you're a top 5 percent rider you're going to have to work harder on it in ways 

But don't peaky bikes do better with higher average corner speeds and don't more advanced riders usually maintain these higher avg speeds? 

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philG
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2/26/2026 12:28am
Tyler D wrote:

But don't peaky bikes do better with higher average corner speeds and don't more advanced riders usually maintain these higher avg speeds? 

But when you rev the bike, the rotating weight of the crank changes how the whole bike behaves, how it corners . and how it behaves in the whoops.  Why do you think they ride whoops in 4th gear ? 

Again, this is basic science principles, not rocket surgery, saying you just have to rev it more is great for anything that goes in a straight line, but the instant you need to turn it, it changes everything , just like when you go to mousse tyres, the extra weight makes a difference because it is rotating mass. 

Kenny and Prado do not rev the shit out of their bikes, they use massive bottom and midrange to get the job done without having the thing spinning at warp factor 10.  RV ,and Tomac rev the shit out of stuff.  

Tall gears, low revs and roll speed , make the lap time, thing is , i always thought Sexton was good at that on the Honda and the KTM, but he just seems to charge into corners now. 

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Tyler D
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2/26/2026 12:51am
Tyler D wrote:

But don't peaky bikes do better with higher average corner speeds and don't more advanced riders usually maintain these higher avg speeds? 

philG wrote:
But when you rev the bike, the rotating weight of the crank changes how the whole bike behaves, how it corners . and how it behaves...

But when you rev the bike, the rotating weight of the crank changes how the whole bike behaves, how it corners . and how it behaves in the whoops.  Why do you think they ride whoops in 4th gear ? 

Again, this is basic science principles, not rocket surgery, saying you just have to rev it more is great for anything that goes in a straight line, but the instant you need to turn it, it changes everything , just like when you go to mousse tyres, the extra weight makes a difference because it is rotating mass. 

Kenny and Prado do not rev the shit out of their bikes, they use massive bottom and midrange to get the job done without having the thing spinning at warp factor 10.  RV ,and Tomac rev the shit out of stuff.  

Tall gears, low revs and roll speed , make the lap time, thing is , i always thought Sexton was good at that on the Honda and the KTM, but he just seems to charge into corners now. 

Kawi runs the same stroke as the Honda and Suzuki; and a longer stroke than the Yamaha. Only the KTM has a longer stroke. Finding ample torque should not be a problem for the factory. 

 

Re  excess gyroscopic forces, run a lighter rotating assembly. 

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philG
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2/26/2026 1:23am
Tyler D wrote:

But don't peaky bikes do better with higher average corner speeds and don't more advanced riders usually maintain these higher avg speeds? 

philG wrote:
But when you rev the bike, the rotating weight of the crank changes how the whole bike behaves, how it corners . and how it behaves...

But when you rev the bike, the rotating weight of the crank changes how the whole bike behaves, how it corners . and how it behaves in the whoops.  Why do you think they ride whoops in 4th gear ? 

Again, this is basic science principles, not rocket surgery, saying you just have to rev it more is great for anything that goes in a straight line, but the instant you need to turn it, it changes everything , just like when you go to mousse tyres, the extra weight makes a difference because it is rotating mass. 

Kenny and Prado do not rev the shit out of their bikes, they use massive bottom and midrange to get the job done without having the thing spinning at warp factor 10.  RV ,and Tomac rev the shit out of stuff.  

Tall gears, low revs and roll speed , make the lap time, thing is , i always thought Sexton was good at that on the Honda and the KTM, but he just seems to charge into corners now. 

Tyler D wrote:
Kawi runs the same stroke as the Honda and Suzuki; and a longer stroke than the Yamaha. Only the KTM has a longer stroke. Finding ample...

Kawi runs the same stroke as the Honda and Suzuki; and a longer stroke than the Yamaha. Only the KTM has a longer stroke. Finding ample torque should not be a problem for the factory. 

 

Re  excess gyroscopic forces, run a lighter rotating assembly. 

They cant even get a set of clamps, you think they change cranks? 

And again, losing that weight makes a huge difference, we used to run our bikes with no flywheel, just a trigger ring and total loss ignition, and the difference was phenomenal , it revved through the range so much quicker, didnt look great on the dyno, but the ability to get on the gas on the side of the tyre, meant it ripped lap time the dyno said it would never would.   But you had no bottom end, so you couldnt lug it out of corners, if that is how you want to ride, with low revs, and riding the torque curve, no amount of chassis work will fix that . 

And when we went to a 300 2 Stroke we put a crank weight on , to allow you to roll out of the turns better in the taller gear , because that is where the lap time came from. 

Obviously this was Supermoto on tarmac, but you can feel and see the difference so much clearer. 

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Dynamometer
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2/26/2026 5:09pm

Hmm. Fake injury? 

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KurtJ99
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2/26/2026 5:18pm

Ok… it’s definitely time now 

Or maybe it's time to put it down and let him recover without judgement. 

JB 19
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2/26/2026 5:27pm

At what point does AC's 450 career flash before his eyes and wonder how many of those crashes were the bike? 

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2/26/2026 5:31pm
JB 19 wrote:

At what point does AC's 450 career flash before his eyes and wonder how many of those crashes were the bike? 

AC was too busy cashing big checks to care...

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